Jurrah or Naitanui?

[}>-DEMON-<{]

Yes, that was a tremendously clever move by them, wasn't it...

I love we gave Carlton our rubbish to free up a spot to steal Jurrah from Collingwood. Poetry.

 

[tcwaters]

But they lack Natanui's awkwardness with the ball in his hands, and all have strong skills- unlike Natanui.

Watch Naitanui play.. Watch how clever he is and how often he sets up attack for us out of the centre.

What skills would he be lacking in? He can run, he can tackle, he can kick goals, he can jump, he can smother, he can read the play well enough to intercept the ball, he can win contested possesions, he can set up attack, he can take a contested mark, he can win hitouts to advantage with ease.. So he doesn't kick that often, how does that mean he is weak skill wise?

 

[dajesmac]

Watch Naitanui play.. Watch how clever he is and how often he sets up attack for us out of the centre.

What skills would he be lacking in? He can run, he can tackle, he can kick goals, he can jump, he can smother, he can read the play well enough to intercept the ball, he can win contested possesions, he can set up attack, he can take a contested mark, he can win hitouts to advantage with ease.. So he doesn't kick that often, how does that mean he is weak skill wise?

Exactly.

It's very Melbourne-like to make extremely half-assed, uneducated comments upon topics which they know nothing about.

 

[tcwaters]

Let's just say I wouldn't trade Jurrah for NN and I don't think WCE fans would trade NN for Jurrah.

This is where it's at.

 

[dajesmac]

Mmmm. IMO LeCras is a better option up forward NOW than Jurrah will ever be.

 

[Wonaeamirri33]

Exactly.

It's very Melbourne-like to make extremely half-assed, uneducated comments upon topics which they know nothing about.

You could just sense the trapdoor opening beneath Dajes' feet as he posted this!

In the words of Bruce McAvaney, the irony was, dare I say it, "delicious"

 

[Trav 20]

Watch Naitanui play.. Watch how clever he is and how often he sets up attack for us out of the centre.

He can run, he can tackle, he can kick goals, he can jump, he can smother, he can read the play well enough to intercept the ball, he can win contested possesions, he can set up attack, he can take a contested mark, he can win hitouts to advantage with ease.. So he doesn't kick that often, how does that mean he is weak skill wise?

What player in history hasn't been able to run, jump, tackle, smother, etc.

He's a poor contested mark, although he can take a mark with the odd ride. There's a big difference.

He's been goalless in 39 off 40 quarters. He's no goal kicking ruckman.

He's very athletic with an excellent leap, but his value is severely overstated, especially if he doesn't improve his marking and ball use.

 

[}>-DEMON-<{]

What player in history hasn't been able to run, jump, tackle, smother, etc.

He's a poor contested mark, although he can take a mark with the odd ride. There's a big difference.

He's been goalless in 39 off 40 quarters. He's no goal kicking ruckman.

He's very athletic with an excellent leap, but his value is severely overstated, especially if he doesn't improve his marking and ball use.

didn't get a kick for about 20 of those quarters too

 

[Spartan]

Rubbish. I've never insinuated that.

Put up or shut up. And I'll consider this another victory if you fail to respond with quotes.

Trav.. stay with me here.

You're on one hand saying that Naitanui was seriously considered and that it was a close decision between him and Watts.

Then on the other hand after just a couple of games you and your fellow MFB started trolling and bagging him labelling him a spud knowing full well that he was actually playing well for a kid ruckman and also that ruckmen take time to develop.

That means you either also rate Watts as a spud or you don't rate Naitanui as a spud. Which one is it?

Cox, who of course debuted at 19 years of age (same as Naita), averaged in his first season:

3.64 kicks, 2.24 marks, 4.05 handballs, 10.82 hitouts per game.

So roughly half of Cox's posessions from his first seasons were kicks.

In 2002, when Cox was 20, we saw a drastic improvement.

5.05 kicks, 4.31 marks, 5.10 handballs, 16.15 houtouts per game.

So, just by looking at stats, it seems that Cox has always been alot more comfortable with his kicking, choosing to dispose of it by foot around 50% of the time.

Edit: As a reference, in Naitanuis first season he averaged:

1.5 kicks, 1 mark, 8.3 handballs, 15.2 hitouts.

Just because Cox kicked it more doesn't mean he is a better kick.

I'm guessing you don't remember Cox as a rookie. As its been already pointed out he was pretty horrible. Yet look at the player he has become.

WCE have a very good track record of talent development. Considering this and what Naitanui has already shown to date this makes Naitanui's potential even more scary.

Why do you bag Naita then? Ruckman take time to develop too.

What player in history hasn't been able to run, jump, tackle, smother, etc.

He's a poor contested mark, although he can take a mark with the odd ride. There's a big difference.

He's been goalless in 39 off 40 quarters. He's no goal kicking ruckman.

He's very athletic with an excellent leap, but his value is severely overstated, especially if he doesn't improve his marking and ball use.

Yes Trav we've heard this before. I'll answer it again for you.

Naitanui is a very good contested mark as well as a pack mark. Against the Kangaroos he outmarked a bigger and arguably stronger McIntosh with relative ease. He hasn't really had that many opportunities to take contested marks, thus has been his role.

He played his last 5 games predominantly in the ruck and rested up forward for minutes. Consider that he only plays something like 65-70% game time. These factors considered i don't think its that hard to see why he hasn't kicked too many goals.

 

[stickman11]

I can remember Jurrah tearing WCE apart while the Nait was missing in action. Jurrah will be better than the Nait, he can appear 5 meters behind the play, within seconds have the ball and a goal. The guy has kicked 4 goals 3 times in his first season of AFL. He could have kicked 7 against the Saints who supposedly have the best defence. The question worth asking is where Jurrah would have gone in last years draft?

 

[Spartan]

I can remember Jurrah tearing WCE apart while the Nait was missing in action. Jurrah will be better than the Nait, he can appear 5 meters behind the play, within seconds have the ball and a goal. The guy has kicked 4 goals 3 times in his first season of AFL. He could have kicked 7 against the Saints who supposedly have the best defence. The question worth asking is where Jurrah would have gone in last years draft?

Jurrah had 8 touches and 2 goals when he played us. Decent game but hardly 'tearing us apart'. From memory it was guys like Bruce and McDonald that were 'tearing us apart'.

I like Jurrah. If he keeps going he will be a very good player.

However your comments on Naitanui can best be described as ignorant.

 

[Trav 20]

Naitanui was very closely considered by Melb, but I would have been gutted if we'd taken him ahead of Watts or Rich, and I'm on record as having stated this prior to the draft.

I saw Naitanui live twice, ie 8 quarters of footy, and very quickly recognised the type of player he was. He's done nothing more, or less than I expected this year. He'll have value as a ruck, I'm not questioning that, but he was far from my preferred choice at pick one.

And no, he's not a good contested mark. He'll take the odd one that sate's the appetite of those easily seduced, but his WAFL form of two and a half years, plus his AFL career thus far, indicates that contested marking isn't a strength. In fact, he's usually out of position due to his poor reading of the game.

I'm getting a bit sick of spoon feeding you, Junior. Think things through and you'll start finding answers.

 

[Spartan]

Naitanui was very closely considered by Melb, but I would have been gutted if we'd taken him ahead of Watts or Rich, and I'm on record as having stated this prior to the draft.

I saw Naitanui live twice, ie 8 quarters of footy, and very quickly recognised the type of player he was. He's done nothing more, or less than I expected this year. He'll have value as a ruck, I'm not questioning that, but he was far from my preferred choice at pick one.

And no, he's not a good contested mark. He'll take the odd one that sate's the appetite of those easily seduced, but his WAFL form of two and a half years, plus his AFL career thus far, indicates that contested marking isn't a strength. In fact, he's usually out of position due to his poor reading of the game.

I'm getting a bit sick of spoon feeding you, Junior. Think things through and you'll start finding answers.

Do you honestly think your bullshit to end your post makes it any more valid?

I've watched Naitanui quite a few times in the WAFL. He definately has the ability to take a contested mark and has done so repeatedly in the WAFL and also at AFL level. He hasn't done it at AFL level because as has already been explained he hasn't been in a position to do so due to the role he has played and the way WCE have used him.

So you're on record as saying you didn't want Naitanui? Whoop-di-***ing do.

The fact that you agree that Melbourne were seriously considering him, the fact that CFC have come out and said they would have taken him before Kreuzer, the fact that we picked him up at #2 and the fact that a number of knowledgeable AFL identities have identified him as a future star of the competition carries a little more weight than Trav20 the BF poster not rating him.

The criticism of his poor reading of the game is not in regards to the ball being in flight or in the general vicinity. This is already very good, just watch the way he wins the hard ball as well as his tap work. The criticism of his poor reading is of general play and the ability to make and find space when the ball isn't in the immediate area. I personally think while he needs some work in that area its not as bad as the cliche propagates, as displayed by passages of play involving Naitanui this year.

I'd suggest that being a self proclaimed football expert you actually educate yourself a little more and save the childish quips and ignorant trolls for the Bay.

 

[tcwaters]

What player in history hasn't been able to run, jump, tackle, smother, etc.

Most Melbourne players over the past 45 years

He's no goal kicking ruckman.

How can you say that after he's only played 10 games? Do you see what the future holds? I think not.

He's very athletic with an excellent leap, but his value is severely overstated, especially if he doesn't improve his marking and ball use.

His ball use is good.. Whats wrong with setting up attack? I guess when you're used to watching Melbourne tank and trying to lose, you wouldn't understand that moving forward is good if you want to win.

His value is underrated, if anything. Especially by people whose jealousy and insecurity are starting to show (i.e MFB)

 

[Trav 20]

Do you honestly think your bullshit to end your post makes it any more valid?

Was it something I said

Btw, no troll. I just don't rate him as unrealistically as you.

 

[Spartan]

Was it something I said

Btw, no troll. I just don't rate him as unrealistically as you.

I notice you ignored the rest of the post.

So everyone outside of Melbourne supporters must be unrealistic.

 

[Wonaeamirri33]

Cliched stereotypical uninformed response... followed by:

How can you say that after he's only played 10 games? Do you see what the future holds? I think not.
His ball use is good.. Whats wrong with setting up attack? (Inserted another cliched troll after this passage)

His value is underrated, if anything.... (followed by repetitive troll)

At least one or two reasonable points here.

Naitanui will go on to be a good ruckman for you, I imagine. But I wouldn't be trying to say that he has legit potency up forward based on one quarter of football.

Especially since he's not achieved anything in this regard since then.

And yes, his contested marking ability and reading of general play does appear to be questionable.

Obviously, his foot skills are still doubtful in the extreme. But who knows, that could change at some point.

After all, the Russky showed some decent foot skills and real goalscoring ability in the final stages of this season, and it's taken him several years to achieve that....

 

[}>-DEMON-<{]

I notice you ignored the rest of the post.

So everyone outside of Melbourne supporters must be unrealistic.

nah there are plenty who think he's a natural born fizza

 

[tcwaters]

Naitanui will go on to be a good ruckman for you, I imagine. But I wouldn't be trying to say that he has legit potency up forward based on one quarter of football.

So it's fair for others to say he won't be able to after only 10 games? When his kicking, work rate, positioning, marking, strength, etc. can still improve. Who is to say he won't become a goal kicking ruckman?

And yes, his contested marking ability and reading of general play does appear to be questionable.

Questionable to you and your fellow MFB. If he reads the play badly, how was he able to score his second goal against Hawthorn? How was he able to intercept the ball when Murphy tried to handball it? How does he have the ability to always get us going forward? There have been plenty of example of Naita reading the play well, yet you go on about everyone trolling, and that is exctly what you're doing.

Please, tell me how it is questionable.

 

[Wonaeamirri33]

Heading out soon, but I will get back to this when I return.

Did notice that your inner troll burst out ever so slightly in the middle of that post though

 

[tcwaters]

What troll? The "questionable to you and the MFB" part?

It's the truth though.. You guys just can't accept Naitanui will become a gun player. The majority of people seem to think he will be.

 

[Wonaeamirri33]

Well in actual fact, before I do drag myself away from the Interwebs... I've often said (and you know I have yeah?) that I think Naitanui will become a pretty good player for you guys, and was a good fit for WCE...

 

[Dez!]

Yay!

A Melbourne/West Coast pissing contest!!!

How new.

 

[tigers_of_old_08]

Naitanui. But Jurrah is showing lots of natural ability.

 

[Trav 20]

Questionable to you and your fellow MFB. If he reads the play badly, how was he able to score his second goal against Hawthorn? How was he able to intercept the ball when Murphy tried to handball it? How does he have the ability to always get us going forward? There have been plenty of example of Naita reading the play well, yet you go on about everyone trolling, and that is exctly what you're doing.

He's a 'see ball get ball' player. This will work for him on occasions, such as the example you used with Murphy, but it won't help him work out how to become ahead of the play, or quickly decipher what's about to evolve. Some players have this natural ability, Naitanui doesn't.