Nope. Belichick didn't even play NFL. My guess is that at some point sport will mature to the point whereby people finally realise playing and coaching are two completely separate disciplines. Being a good player does not make you a good coach - most of the best players make rubbish coaches.
Coach Justin Longmuir
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Apples and oranges, gridiron is a HIGHLY technical game, it's like a game of human chess with athletes. I'm not talking about how skilled a player is but how courageous they were on the field. (don't have to be kamikaze either but being afraid of getting hurt isn't a good look)
I think it's more about leadership personally. Admittedly you can demonstrate leadership through inspiration (eg courage on field) but I wouldn't say that was anywhere close to the most important type of leadership for a coach. The courage bit is probably a bonus on top - I don't see it as a prerequisite personally (maybe it is for a Captain?). I have had some amazing coaches in my life and the ones who were most effective were always the ones that were excellent at understanding players, the game and being great communicators.
Yeah I'm very likely being too tough on him.
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I think we need to at least give him a chance before we either call him GOAT or stick the knives in. Based on what other coaches and players (at Pies/WC) have said about him he seems to be a player's coach that also has a really good understanding of the game. I suspect he's already good communicating one-on-one and will grow into taking that lead role and inspiring passion across the whole group.
I think Ross was an excellent coach but he just seemed too isolated to turn things around if given another year (seemed to have the players but no-one else). What I'm excited about with the refresh is I think we can get a better CEO that can drive standards/culture and can (positively) raise our profile in the community (those associated with negativity in recent times are now all gone). Plus we can afford some more experienced assistants who can come in and make us step up on every line (especially the forward line). A new CEO & HC also means a new set of eyes on our S&C and they'll have a licence to change things up across the club. Everything should get a shake up and if I was a motivated player/staff member I'd be pretty excited that things could get a lot better fast.
A lot of people are pencilling us in for a bottom 4 finish (many have us bottom 2). I just don't see it. I think BHill was an important player this year but no more than Neale was the year before. I don't buy it. I think we could go ok if we can reduce our injury list by a lot (like Brisbane did). We might be weaker on the outside but can see us being a lot stronger across the rest of the field.
“I’d rather have a lucky General than a smart General”.
It definitely takes a bit of good luck to win a flag. You just have to look at the list of premiership players to see that.
Scott was lucky when he walked into Geelong at the right time (he himself admits that). The Pies were unlucky to lose last year. Saints were unlucky to draw. Even we were considered somewhat unlucky in 2013 according to some. Lyon will be considered unlucky to not get one as a head coach.
It’s a minor factor, but a factor all the same imo. JLo has been involved in senior footy for over 20 years and has never won one. Yes he was unlucky to miss out in 2018 in two ways, he left the club that ultimately won it, and some say WC were lucky to get the final shot to win it.
We are a club that needs as much luck as we can get. We’ve been notoriously unlucky through our whole history.
Imo, success seems to follow success. Just a view and observation that I have. Happy to be on my own with it, and certainly will be happy if Justin proves me wrong.
It definitely takes a bit of good luck to win a flag. You just have to look at the list of premiership players to see that.
Scott was lucky when he walked into Geelong at the right time (he himself admits that). The Pies were unlucky to lose last year. Saints were unlucky to draw. Even we were considered somewhat unlucky in 2013 according to some. Lyon will be considered unlucky to not get one as a head coach.
It’s a minor factor, but a factor all the same imo. JLo has been involved in senior footy for over 20 years and has never won one. Yes he was unlucky to miss out in 2018 in two ways, he left the club that ultimately won it, and some say WC were lucky to get the final shot to win it.
We are a club that needs as much luck as we can get. We’ve been notoriously unlucky through our whole history.
Imo, success seems to follow success. Just a view and observation that I have. Happy to be on my own with it, and certainly will be happy if Justin proves me wrong.
We aren't discussing you or who I'd rather be. We are discussing the coach of the Fremantle Football Club. I don't think JLo wants to be Brad or Chris or anyone else for that matter.
The injury list was quite ridiculous. Winning at least half the games should be the goal.
Yep Buckley has won nothing but is a quality coach.
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So good to read this from someone else. I was my clubs top grade women’s hockey coach this year (have coached in high performance for 4 years) and never played top grade, this idea is my main motivation and driving force. Hockey in WA is slowly turning and giving opportunities to non elite level players but still has a lot of room to grow.
Ex elite high level playing experience and anecdotal learning is great, but isn’t the only way to be a good coach - nor is it a necessity IMO.
Arcassius
Team Chaplain
Ok. Head coach settled.
When are we looking at the S&C?
When are we looking at the S&C?
I've quite enjoyed the things JLo has been saying this week. Sure, he was nervous at the press conference, but the things he said there and in other material has been on point as far as I am concerned. Getting to know the assistant coaches and looking to use their strengths was a win with me, balancing attack and defence, working on skills, players being the best that the can be, all good messaging. Hope they were JLo's sentiments, polished by the media dept, and not just handed to him.
I don't consider Ross a great media performer. Confident, yes, but sometimes gobbledygook, sometimes a poor message. A few times over the last couple of years the message I have received from press conferences has been that there is not much that he can do until the players mature and achieve the right levels of conditioning. I have been jumping up and down in front of the TV yelling "how about working on a way of entering the forward 50 other than bombing it to the hotspot". But then maybe that's just me. I was also quite insulted when he said in rather a resigned fashion that we needed to win some games for "commercial reasons". I am a passionate Dockers fan, not a "commercial reason" was my feeling. He was very gracious in his presser after being sacked, anyway.
I have been waiting a fair while for the club to move on from Ross, and it came quicker than I expected. I think Ross had very little chance of taking us to a premiership, the game (and coaching approaches) had passed him by.
My view is that if your on the wrong path, you need to look for the right one. JLo might not be the right one (I sure hope he is though), but that doesn't make moving on from Ross the wrong move, in my eyes.
My hopes for next year are that we look a better team in the second half of the year, than the first half, that our points for is commensurate with (or, hope against hope, higher than) the teams around us on the ladder, rather than similar to teams several places below, and, assuming we lose Bhilly and Ed, 8-9 wins is OK (more is better of course).
I don't consider Ross a great media performer. Confident, yes, but sometimes gobbledygook, sometimes a poor message. A few times over the last couple of years the message I have received from press conferences has been that there is not much that he can do until the players mature and achieve the right levels of conditioning. I have been jumping up and down in front of the TV yelling "how about working on a way of entering the forward 50 other than bombing it to the hotspot". But then maybe that's just me. I was also quite insulted when he said in rather a resigned fashion that we needed to win some games for "commercial reasons". I am a passionate Dockers fan, not a "commercial reason" was my feeling. He was very gracious in his presser after being sacked, anyway.
I have been waiting a fair while for the club to move on from Ross, and it came quicker than I expected. I think Ross had very little chance of taking us to a premiership, the game (and coaching approaches) had passed him by.
My view is that if your on the wrong path, you need to look for the right one. JLo might not be the right one (I sure hope he is though), but that doesn't make moving on from Ross the wrong move, in my eyes.
My hopes for next year are that we look a better team in the second half of the year, than the first half, that our points for is commensurate with (or, hope against hope, higher than) the teams around us on the ladder, rather than similar to teams several places below, and, assuming we lose Bhilly and Ed, 8-9 wins is OK (more is better of course).
That would be a flop.
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Personally, I would throw my head back in disgust!
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for me it's more of a lesson in who to draft in this new era of increasing player movement (every year, by every club). We took Sheridan instead of Brad Hill. Stupid. Now he's got a long term Vic gf who's dragged him away from his brother and family back to Vic which he now knows well. Langdon is from Melbourne and has a brother playing for Collingwood. Was always a good chance of leaving. Neale is a unique case because I think he desperately wants a brownlow and/or cup and didn't see himself achieving that at Freo and behind Fyfe (Fyfe's still blocking him though...). He will likely be back though. Moment his wife has a baby, she will want to be back with her family and the support that brings. Neale hinted at it when he left that he may be back one day.
Brayshaw will likely stay because of his character and connections but will Cerra and Darcy? What if Tassie sets up a team in the next couple of years like it's being proposed? Dix and Pearce may want to go home and be part of that history in their homeland.
I probably sound like a broken record on this already but we really should be loading up on picks this year and get every top WA player we can get (and yes, maybe a Stephens (we still have Mundy as case in point)). Buying them back later (the good ones anyway) often comes with too many challenges at too high a cost.
Interesting to hear about your coaching experience. What degree of certainty do you think a club can have when they are appointing a rookie coach at AFL level? How big a difference would there be from being a line coach to becoming senior coach? What do you think of having a mentor figure or a Director of Coaching figure to support Longmuir? I would be very interested to hear your thoughts.
Generally speaking it should...but there’s no guarantees because there are a helluva lot of other variables. If we had not given up a double digit lead v GCS, if we had not let Carlton get up in the last minute or the sSaints for that matter, if we had not lost 3 tall forwards, or our potential AA Full back, if our S&C team had got stuff right! if our surface wasn’t bone(navicular) breaking hard...we could have been playing finals...WE COULD HAVE BEEN A CONTENDER.
Those stars didn’t align.
People paid with their jobs.
You get an opportunity and in simplistic terms if you have three or four years of rolling snake eyes we as fans and paying members are going to demand someone else gets the dice!
We all want success. There is no magic recipe. Pick up those dice JLO.....
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Hard to gauge with my hockey context/background but I’ll try my best. Sorry in advance for the long reply.
Rookie coach at AFL would be dependent on experience at that level and environment. Coaching qualifications look great on a wall but rarely mean you’re actually a good coach in my experience. I’ve been taught that what you have experienced in coaching is far more valuable than what you’ve passed in tests.
Line coaching question is difficult because in terms of hockey coaching it’s not that linear of a break down of roles. If you’re an assistant it’s still more of an holistic team role or at least that’s what my past experiences have been. There are specific coaches eg: GK trainers but usually only for the Australian Rep setup however more state academies have started employing specialist skill coaches than previously.
I also can’t comment on what roles line coaches have in AFL set ups but I would assume they would also play a role in holistic team and Oppo evaluation. On that basis, the transition would be a step up but the role would at least in theory be known and the candidate would have experience in dealing with the roles of the H.C. My main hurdle when going from assistant to head coach was the pressure of knowing that you’re the one in charge now. All decisions are owned by you and you’re the name that has to stand by that no matter how many people you may have consulted. That would be the same for a line coach in AFL moving up like Justin has. I expected the pressure but still had no idea what that actually ended up feeling like.
My mentor for the last 2 years of my HP pathway has been invaluable to me so I’m a huge advocate for the mentor role. Not in a sense of fabricating and copying what they see or their training methods, but to reinforce either your good habits/coaching methods and/or critique your methods that need work. Having someone with HP experience sit in on team talks/selection meetings/training sessions is an amazing learning technique. I would definitely advocate for a mentor like Pyke to help J-Lo is his role.
I worked under one of the current Hockeyroo assistant coaches all of last year and what I learned from her was immense. Most importantly though, she learned from me - I don’t say that to boost my ego, I say that because coaches should always be learning from whatever source they come across. Ego and arrogance in HP coaching is widespread but holds people back. For her to listen to me and learn from me ( and tell me she learned from me) was a highlight and showed her class and talent of coaching and educating.
Long reply but hope my experience is of interest!
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tacopavlich
Premiership Player
The pace to which you switch paths though can be the issue. A funny observable phenomena in AFL is fanbases are pretty lousy at judging coaches and lists in general. Put head coaching jobs to vote by fan committee, Simpson Hardwick and Buckley would be gone by now. And that certainly feels that was the case with Lyon. We live and breath the emotion of game day, and every loss and missed finals stings badly. We do not argue or think rationally about footy the same way we would in other parts of life because we invest so much. Injuries or context becomes irrelevant, change for the sake of "something different" becomes desired outside the realms of rationality.
We've now made the decision to switch paths and too late to go back, but as you say, this occurred much sooner than expected and I would argue prematurely. if JLo turns out to be a dud, you can't argue on any objective grounds that sacking Lyon was justified. I also worry if when the pitchforks start coming out for JLo whether our admin will exercise patience, as they will need a lot more than our fan base will have.
Holistic coaching: "It is a style that considers aspects beyond the athlete's physical and mental states such as their emotional and spiritual states. In the holistic style, the coach creates a relationship with every individual athlete based on interpersonal communication and genuine care."
Justin Longmuir = Mr Miyagi
Justin Longmuir = Mr Miyagi
Agreed, he was never built to be an enforcer but played in two of the “hardest” positions on the footy field with plenty of physical contact being ruck and key forward.
He was one of the smartest players I have seen playing for Freo - had real Footy smarts. I hope that translates to his coaching.
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