Draft Watcher Knightmare's 2012 Mock Draft

[Blakesta123]

Do the dogs have and of those team changers like Melb or GWS have in Greene and Viney?
Or will we draft one?

 

[Trav 20]

Having watched plenty of Viney these past two seasons I also think he can become one of the most influence mids in the game, it's more the ranking of Greene where we differ and I don't see his upside as being nearly as limited as you do.

You've got a beauty in Viney and he will change Melbourne. I've said it for the past year and a half and I'm very confident that he will be a big difference maker in that midfield.

Thanks for the degree of insight you provide and the time you take to share such thoughts.

I like Greene and hoped he'd be at 12 before we traded it for Clark last year, as I knew he'd grown up playing with Viney. His stats are unbelievable for a third year player, let alone first. Greene has always got a fair chunk of his disposals in the back half as a link player and it often seemed to be the case when I watched him this year. You compare both to Selwood, but do you ever see Greene being as hard at the contest ?

Viney has always had Toby covered and he strikes me as a competitive type. We'll watch with interest.

 

[Turbocat]

KM , the Geelong board has flown the the idea of our R1 (p15) for 2 picks in the 20's. Its a bit hard to judge who would have those picks atm , maybe Brisbane , GWS , who knows after some trades. (Doesn't really seem to be a bulletproof list of the draft order around atm so I not 100% on who has what picks).

Anyway , what would your assessment of that proposal be as far as talent goes.A p15 kid v P20 as far talent goes.
Then who , in your opinion , would we be able to get in the mid 20's to make it work for us. I was thinking Jessie Lonergan or a similar type and perhaps a running type like Towers might be good outcome for us.

 

[aussierulesrules]

KM , the Geelong board has flown the the idea of our R1 (p15) for 2 picks in the 20's.

I asked him that same question about the idea of us trading pick 13/14 (if Goddard leaves) for two picks in the early 20's and you can read his answer to that on page 37 of this thread, if you want to see what he said about the idea there. It won't be specific to Geelong, but might be a start.

 

[Turbocat]

I asked him that same question about the idea of us trading pick 13/14 (if Goddard leaves) for two picks in the early 20's and you can read his answer to that on page 37 of this thread, if you want to see what he said about the idea there. It won't be specific to Geelong, but might be a start.

Thanks , for that I will. These mega thread its impossible to keep up with every post

 

[Hellgood]

I see this as a futile exercise as you need years in the system to make any sort of accurate assessment, but it interests me how you come to some of your conclusions.

Viney played with Greene at Ashburton Juniors and was always better, as his 4 B&F's in a row attest. Viney played with Greene at Oakleigh Chargers and was always considered better. Viney was BOG in the losing GF a year ago in which Green was a teammate. But based on one year in the AFL Greene is supposedly a superior prospect.

Viney has always been the better junior and inside mid, which for me is significant.

I think you are making the error of assuming that development of footballers (and football clubs) is linear. What Greene has achieved in the AFL this season is unparalleled, especially considering the rate of development he showed over his last season of underage footy. The way Greene plays, like a Sam Mitchell, won't ever be "found out", so he certainly will not be a one season wonder.

Viney isn't proven yet. He's about as close to "proven" as an undergae player can get, but until he can produce what Greene has at the highest level possible, I believe Greene deserves the rating as the better player.

 

[Trav 20]

so he certainly will not be a one season wonder.

And I suggested that ?

He's a very good player, but I don't believe he has Viney's manic inside contested ball winning ability. Like everything, we'll know in the fullness of time.

 

[Knightmare]

Do the dogs have and of those team changers like Melb or GWS have in Greene and Viney?
Or will we draft one?

Hard to get. There might be one a year. Dogs don't have one yet.

No guarantees one comes along through the draft in the immediate future but that doesn't mean there aren't any so there is always the chance.

Thanks for the degree of insight you provide and the time you take to share such thoughts.

I like Greene and hoped he'd be at 12 before we traded it for Clark last year, as I knew he'd grown up playing with Viney. His stats are unbelievable for a third year player, let alone first. Greene has always got a fair chunk of his disposals in the back half as a link player and it often seemed to be the case when I watched him this year. You compare both to Selwood, but do you ever see Greene being as hard at the contest ?

Viney has always had Toby covered and he strikes me as a competitive type. We'll watch with interest.

Greene has actually averaged 11 contested possessions per game this year and 4.9 clearances per game so he already an excellent and established inside player - which is incredibly rare for a first year player. He attacks the ball and the contest hard and has that Sam Mitchell like natural inside awareness. Attack on the ball and contest is pretty similar to Selwood's for a first year player and has really stood out.

For Greene he likely won't have the opportunities to get much ball forward of centre (playing in a still developing GWS side) and as a result getting plenty of ball in the back half is no surprise with much of the play down that end of the field.

KM , the Geelong board has flown the the idea of our R1 (p15) for 2 picks in the 20's. Its a bit hard to judge who would have those picks atm , maybe Brisbane , GWS , who knows after some trades. (Doesn't really seem to be a bulletproof list of the draft order around atm so I not 100% on who has what picks).

Anyway , what would your assessment of that proposal be as far as talent goes.A p15 kid v P20 as far talent goes.
Then who , in your opinion , would we be able to get in the mid 20's to make it work for us. I was thinking Jessie Lonergan or a similar type and perhaps a running type like Towers might be good outcome for us.

I like the talents at pick 15 more, but with that said in Geelong's situation moving back into two picks in the 20s could prove to be a good move. If the guy you want at 15 is still going to be available in the 20s why not? Just means you get another guy you want who might not be available at that next selection.
Clubs always look for opportunities to trade up in the draft and with less clubs looking to trade down Geelong have proven in the past that this can work out wonderfully so no reason why it can't work happen again.

 

[Blakesta123]

So my guess is that there are a couple of team-changers here this year, such as Whitfield, O'meara, Daniher, Viney - what about Martin?

 

[grants guns]

Do you think think that Lucas Cook will get picked up, and also Hayden Jolly who was highly rated as a 17 year old?
And also why isn't Viney playing in the TAC Cup final tomorrow?

 

[Damo80]

KM , the Geelong board has flown the the idea of our R1 (p15) for 2 picks in the 20's.

As it stands, without allowing for trading of any existing picks, or the addition of compo picks for F/A's "lost" this year (I understand compo picks have to be used in this year's draft, and can't be banked like the other compo picks floating around currently?), the only clubs who could offer this sort of trade is GWS (20 & 24) or the Lions (23 & 30).

Personally, I'd be more than happy if the Tigers could trade picks 29 & 31 for a single pick in the top 20!

 

[Knightmare]

So my guess is that there are a couple of team-changers here this year, such as Whitfield, O'meara, Daniher, Viney - what about Martin?

When talking about culture changers that is something a little different. I'm not talking about dominant playing ability but rather someone who will in some respect do something to make those around them better. In the case of Viney because of his courage and hardness at the footy, in a similar way to Luke Hodge, playing alongside Jack you can stand that little bit taller because he will always get back up after any hit and come back at you with intensity. Regardless of whether you are a 30 year old, established player or whether a less established player.

It's the edge he has over any other player in this draft.


What you're thinking of is more along the lines of a franchise player. So more a guy you can build a team, or a part of the team around. All those I list in my top 15 have the ability to be centrepieces and be players you can build around but probably at the end of the day only 3-4 of these will be that best on the team type.

As franchise players I'd be going with Daniher, O'Meara, Crouch and Macrae as those players who have the ability to reach those heights.

Do you think think that Lucas Cook will get picked up, and also Hayden Jolly who was highly rated as a 17 year old?
And also why isn't Viney playing in the TAC Cup final tomorrow?

I think both can get picked up and when all clubs have settled on their delistings I will include both of these in either of my drafts.

Cook is very much a project and will need time (still very thin) but for a club with a strong development program and a willingness to wait he could be a really nice option. Perhaps a fit for Fremantle late/rookie.

Jolly would be a really nice fit for Port Adelaide as a late selection and I think he could be a pretty immediate player for them through the midfield.

Coming into the season the plan with Viney by Melbourne was for him to play mostly senior footy so he has played some VFL as well as in the u18 champs and APS footy for his school.

 

[TheCrouchingCrow]

What's your opinion on Adelaide's chances of getting Kennedy, considering last night proved that we need a small forward that can provide some genuine impact in a game against genuine opposition?

Also, I heard rumours he was angry about us not choosing him in the 17 year old draft last year, and wouldn't be happy (or something along those lines) with coming to the Crows. Surely it's nothing, but what have you heard on that, if anything?

 

[aussierulesrules]

Personally, if we have two picks at 12/13 or 14, if Goddard leaves, I would be very happy if we picked up Kennedy, going by the sound of him.

It's hard to remember the last time we had a genuine "goalkicking mid". May even have to go back to the late 90's, when Aussie Jones was playing on the wing and slotting running goals on a fairly regular basis.

We probably won't need him up forward (with Milne, Schneider, Saad, Milera there for the time being, plus Minchington, who seems highly rated at St Kilda), so to have someone with the sort of pace he apparently has, playing in our midfield, would be terrific, I reckon.

 

[Knightmare]

What's your opinion on Adelaide's chances of getting Kennedy, considering last night proved that we need a small forward that can provide some genuine impact in a game against genuine opposition?

Also, I heard rumours he was angry about us not choosing him in the 17 year old draft last year, and wouldn't be happy (or something along those lines) with coming to the Crows. Surely it's nothing, but what have you heard on that, if anything?

Good fit for Adelaide.

I wouldn't be too worried about Adelaide picking Crouch over him last year.

It's still his home state so it's probably one of the destination he would rather land - if that can be said. Adelaide being a young, top 4 club who might also be able to provide him early opportunity should be a good fit for both he and club.

Personally, if we have two picks at 12/13 or 14, if Goddard leaves, I would be very happy if we picked up Kennedy, going by the sound of him.

It's hard to remember the last time we had a genuine "goalkicking mid". May even have to go back to the late 90's, when Aussie Jones was playing on the wing and slotting running goals on a fairly regular basis.

We probably won't need him up forward (with Milne, Schneider, Saad, Milera there for the time being, plus Minchington, who seems highly rated at St Kilda), so to have someone with the sort of pace he apparently has, playing in our midfield, would be terrific, I reckon.

Would be an interesting fit. Certainly can play midfield but at the same time I'd expect him to rotate forward. One of the quicker player and can really do some damage with his pace. One of the more immediate fits in any case and has been a good player for a couple of years now.

 

[aussierulesrules]

I was under the impression that he has been mainly playing midfield already. Has he been playing more forward, or mid and where does he generally play when he's playing against those around his own age (I guess he would be playing forward more if he's been playing SANFL seniors)?

If he doesn't play all that much in the midfield then we would possibly be better off with someone like Garlett. Wouldn't mind if we rolled the dice on Menzel, either, if we do have two early teens picks.

 

[theflea]

km will you do a pd when all trades/fa's are settled just before the real deal?

 

[Knightmare]

I was under the impression that he has been mainly playing midfield already. Has he been playing more forward, or mid and where does he generally play when he's playing against those around his own age (I guess he would be playing forward more if he's been playing SANFL seniors)?

If he doesn't play all that much in the midfield then we would possibly be better off with someone like Garlett. Wouldn't mind if we rolled the dice on Menzel, either, if we do have two early teens picks.

Combination of both forward and mid.

Just at AFL level, at least at first would expect him to be more of a rotational mid who probably starts as a forward.

km will you do a pd when all trades/fa's are settled just before the real deal?

I'll continue to update this thread so that won't be a problem and will adjust the selections depending on trade + free agent moves.

 

[Footscrazy]

Couple of questions KM.
1. I was watching replays of the U18 carnival and Jack Billings seems like an absolute gun. What do you think the closest comparison is with past/current players?
2. You've got me pretty excited about Lachie Hunter. What do you think the ceiling of his talent is?

 

[Knightmare]

Couple of questions KM.
1. I was watching replays of the U18 carnival and Jack Billings seems like an absolute gun. What do you think the closest comparison is with past/current players?
2. You've got me pretty excited about Lachie Hunter. What do you think the ceiling of his talent is?

Billings is draftable next year.
Really strong marking target up forward and can go off for 12 marks and 6 goals on any given day despite his size. Also very good through the midfield. With his strong marking game at his size has some Jimmy Bartell to him. Looks a top 10 selection next year.

Lachie Hunter is also a very good player. Midfielders/forward flanker. Good finisher around goal. Has some pace and a really nice side step. Very strong tackler. A top 40 talent this year and clubs should put some bids in but WBD should match on him through F/S. It will be interesting to see how good he gets but I think he can make the grade and develop into a B-grader if given the right opportunities as a rotation forward flanker/midfielder. Worth a 2nd round selection but might be able to get 3rd round with some luck.

 

[aussierulesrules]

Did you see the U18's GF today, KM? I hear Jackson Macrae had another really good game.

 

[Footscrazy]

Billings is draftable next year.
Really strong marking target up forward and can go off for 12 marks and 6 goals on any given day despite his size. Also very good through the midfield. With his strong marking game at his size has some Jimmy Bartell to him. Looks a top 10 selection next year.

Lachie Hunter is also a very good player. Midfielders/forward flanker. Good finisher around goal. Has some pace and a really nice side step. Very strong tackler. A top 40 talent this year and clubs should put some bits in but WBD should match on him through F/S. It will be interesting to see how good he gets but I think he can make the grade and develop into a B-grader if given the right opportunities as a rotation forward flanker/midfielder.

Yeah I was aware Billings was an underager. Just seems such a unique talent.

Geez, we've been lucky with our F/S recently. Can't wait to see Cordy, Libba, Wally and Hunter in the same team. There's more to come aparently. Zaine Cordy?

What a future Western Bulldogs father-son team may look like
FB: Riley Morris (Dale), Cohen Lake (Brian), Mitchell Croft (Matthew)
HB: Lachlan Hunter (Mark), Luke Kennedy (Rick), Jayden Foster (Peter)
C: Ricky Hawkins (Doug), Mitch Wallis (Steve), Jacob Smith (Rohan)
HF: Jarvis Murphy (Bob), Oliver Grant (Chris), Josh Wallis (Steve)
FF: Tom Garlick (Simon), Will Beasley (Simon), Jack Johnson (C) (Brad)
R: Ayce Cordy (Brian), Tom Liberatore (Tony), Jaxon Cooney (Adam)
I/C: Sam Darcy (Luke), Kyan Eagleton (Nathan), Zaine Cordy (Brian), Harry Cameron (Leon)
EMG: Tyler Cross (Daniel), Cooper West (Scott), Rhylee West (Scott)
http://www.heraldsun.com.au/afl/localfooty/picks-of-the-litter/story-fn53khop-1226046424487

 

[Knightmare]

Did you see the U18's GF today, KM? I hear Jackson Macrae had another really good game.

I liked Macrae's game more last week but still very good again today and clearly the best player this finals series with Membrey a close second with some of his performances also really outstanding. Macrae has really announced himself as a genuine top 5 selection for mine.

I will post up some notes from the game a little later if there is some demand.

But on Macrae he just showed that same poise under pressure every time finding that extra time as Pendlebury does. Some of his work by hand was excellent finding targets he had no right to find under pressure with that real 360 degree vision. Good by foot as usual, showed some line breaking pace and at times dangerous when forward.
Kicked the behind to win the game with seconds to go and probably the most important behind of his career.

Probably the best TAC Cup grand final we've had and really enjoyable contest with Oakleight coming back from 2 goals down to win the contest with only 5 or so minutes to go in the contest.

 

[Knightmare]

Plenty more F/S selections coming for the doggies.

Haven't seen Zaine Cordy play but I think he is draftable in 2014.

 

[aussierulesrules]

Bloody hell, what do we have to do to get some F/S selections some time! Maybe we should set up a "stud farm/room" in one of the offices at Seaford and bring in anyone willing to do the deed with anyone on our list, so that they can sire some future F/S selections?

Glad to hear that today's game was good, BTW, was hoping to watch it on TV, but then I realised Foxtel weren't doing it.