Draft Watcher Knightmare's 2013 phantom draft

[bjlucas]

The Falcons have a strong group next year and I'm expecting plenty to get drafted.

Watch out for: Lewis Taylor, Aaron Christensen, James Tsitas, Nicholas Bourke, Darcy Gardiner and Fraser Fort.

Cheers Nightmare, I appreciate your info on the Geelong Falcons as I barely get to see them after they play at under-15 V-Line Cup as I volunteer for the Geelong region, not Hampden in that championship.

 

[KJpie]

Reserved for round 2:

Love your work KM,
Surely we will Rookie list Elijah if he commits as is expected, we currently have pacy smalls in spades that are far more physically developed (i.e Blair, Elliot, Sinclair, Kennedy, as well as silky smalls in Did's and Krak on top of this I give Mooney or Dwyer a chance to be elevated in 2013/14? Also I'm looking forward to having a better balance Re: Height with our half forwards and backs with the return of Caff as well as the introduction of Russell and young; your thoughts?

 

[KJpie]

They do indeed! I'm going to mix that one up enough time this year and I'd be very surprised if I was the only one!

Fremantle I'm finding difficult to place and I think their potential range is wide - could be top 4 if things go right, or could finish 11th if those stars break down. They've got Fyfe back this year as well as a healthy Sandilands which makes a big difference but with 3 of their best 4 players (Sandilands, Pavlich and McPharlin) 30 or older I'm struggling to see the growth of the list and I think some other clubs have the opportunity to go past them with some more meaningful offseason additions. So less to poke fun at Chris and more just where I have them finishing at this point with a really competitive top 11 all with genuine top 8 chances.

The strength is moderate. I like the mids with the outside group in particular strong but limited top end KPP options and ruck options poor at this point with no top end options. The top 10, not sure what others think but I rate that very top end slightly below this year. But depth is much stronger.

McDonald is the main father son at this point but perhaps some others pop up with strong performances as the year progresses but at this stage no second father son has caught my eye with more the QLD zone/NSW/NZ types connected with particular clubs the more interesting and better talents.

With Edwards it's speculative. May go senior list. May go as a rookie. May not get drafted at all. It comes down to what he does this coming year and as a super small if you like it's unclear what comes of Edwards but from what I hear the club at this stage are happy with his progress and where he is at rating his talent highly so at this point I'd say he has the opportunity to be selected with that final selection with a strong season but very much a wait and see and we'll see more of him in the TAC this year and in the u18 champs to get a more concrete idea of where he is at.

I rated had Witts at 8 in his draft year in my power rankings so it will be interesting to see just how well he goes from here on with his debut likely this year which will be very interesting to watch. I suspect he C, just not sure his endurance is yet there to allow him to run out a full senior match through the ruck so I wouldn't be trusting him in a finals game yet with Hudson the better choice to come in for the time being if required but long term injuries permitting he has the opportunity to become something.

I am intrigued to find out how we will manage the rucks next year including as you have rightly noted concerns about Witt's endurance towards the end of a match! I share that concern and question where Witt's and Grundy fit in regardless of talent and how Witt's will improve his endurance without the full time gig, both are probable number 1 ruck choices? On top of this Gault and Richmond are probable KPP and 2nd ruck choices, Hudson adds to the congestion equation. How will they all learn their trade and increase their endurance if both jolly and Lynch are available for most of the year and how will the club manage their playing roles in the VFL to fast track their development in their specialized role?. I would suggest Hudson would stand down to allow the 4 to develop? If that is the case how does Hudson remain AFL ready to take over from Jolly when required IYO? The club stated last year that there were to many ruckman in the seconds to allow the individual to progress into their role and moved Gault to defence, however I see us in the same situation as last year with better quality?

 

[Knightmare]

Love your work KM,
Surely we will Rookie list Elijah if he commits as is expected, we currently have pacy smalls in spades that are far more physically developed (i.e Blair, Elliot, Sinclair, Kennedy, as well as silky smalls in Did's and Krak on top of this I give Mooney or Dwyer a chance to be elevated in 2013/14? Also I'm looking forward to having a better balance Re: Height with our half forwards and backs with the return of Caff as well as the introduction of Russell and young; your thoughts?

I think you could be right about Elijah. It depends on how strong his season is. If he projects as a guy who can play in season one then perhaps he is taken with that final draft selection but otherwise and more likely he is taken as a rookie with that final rookie selection.

It is a small team though.

All of Dwyer/Martin/Mooney have an opportunity to be senior listed with Hudson that only certainty at this stage. It will come down to who trains best. Mooney of the three while I might be against the grain but I think he has that best opportunity to find a regular position in our side as that forward.
But Dwyer and Martin both very capable of playing senior football and will present as very solid depth options both through the midfield and rotating forward.

Russell has that chance for a role down back as that kickout specialist and as that attacking styled backman. Just depends on how he trains, whether he impresses and whether he gets back to playing his better footy which he hasn't played these last few years but has in the past shown he can produce.

Caff will be interesting. I think we might utilise him in the back half. Might also get some opportunities through the midfield (though with the additions of Dwyer and Martin will be difficult to find minutes). I'm hoping he gets time forward but I think it might be difficult for him to pass Goldsack by who in 2012 really surprised in that 3rd tall forward role and is probably a touch more threatening as a goalkicking option which is why I favour him slightly, but if Caff returns to his 2010 form then you can't count him out and he's certainly better up forward than down back with his pace only ok down back and not really that elite rebounding player.

I am intrigued to find out how we will manage the rucks next year including as you have rightly noted concerns about Witt's endurance towards the end of a match! I share that concern and question where Witt's and Grundy fit in regardless of talent and how Witt's will improve his endurance without the full time gig, both are probable number 1 ruck choices? On top of this Gault and Richmond are probable KPP and 2nd ruck choices, Hudson adds to the congestion equation. How will they all learn their trade and increase their endurance if both jolly and Lynch are available for most of the year and how will the club manage their playing roles in the VFL to fast track their development in their specialized role?. I would suggest Hudson would stand down to allow the 4 to develop? If that is the case how does Hudson remain AFL ready to take over from Jolly when required IYO? The club stated last year that there were to many ruckman in the seconds to allow the individual to progress into their role and moved Gault to defence, however I see us in the same situation as last year with better quality?

Jolly likely plays around 16-18 H+A games this season then finals. I expect Witts to play the majority of those games where Jolly rests as that no.1 ruckman with Buckley voicing that he wants to get games into Witts this season. Grundy I expect plays more key forward this year in the VFL looking to further add that string to his bow (no urgency for him to develop into a full time ruckman just yet) and a year as a forward hasn't hurt anyone in the past. My feeling is if Lynch misses than it is between Grundy and possibly Gault to come in to fill that key forward/ruck role.

Hudson probably plays more in the second half of the season and the plan I can only assume is that he trains, maybe plays once a month or so at VFL level and really aims to be cherry ripe in the scenario he is needed is September if for whatever reason Jolly gets hurt and is unable to play which is more what he is there for. No way Witts for example plays finals footy as a guy coming into the season who is yet to debut unless he really rips teams apart - though I'm not seeing that just yet, with the super big guys it takes well into their 20s for them to really get it and Witts still has another probably three years of development before we really know who he is and what he can do. But he is there as a coach first and his major priority is developing Witts/Grundy/Gault/Richmond and building Witts and Grundy into monsters who are capable of taking over the ruck responsibilities post Jolly.

Gault I rate more highly than most and I think he could play from round one whether it be as a no.2 ruckman, key forward or key defender. He can be thrown in at any time and his rapid development and coachability suggests he can play anytime. Not clear who he plays in front of next year but I'd be willing to throw him into any role at any time and I see no reason why he can't continue to take another big step forward this year. With K.Pendlebury gone he might again play key defence as he did in that back end of the season though with Hartley, Frost and likely a Keeffe/N.Brown also in the 2s we still have plenty of height in that back half and Gault might well find a role up forward whether it be as a key forward or even on a forward flank where he might rotate into the ruck for minor minutes as required. Might even play as a swingman if required. In any case he is that ultimate utility who can do whatever you want him to do but long term I see him playing that Leigh Brown, no.2 ruck role where he can play 15% ruck minutes but then play within a forward structure without making the forwardline feel too tall.

Richmond while he probably has a decent leap I'm not sure I'd be playing him through the ruck at all. I'd be wanted Witts/Grundy/Gault and Hudson when playing to get those minutes instead. Richmond likely plays most of the season up forward but likely also gets tried down back just to give him a try of different things. I'd be surprised to see him play more than 15 VFL games next season and is more a long term development project who will need a good three years before we know who he is. Expect a slow start to the VFL season and look for him more to get comfortable in that back half of the season. But it's all for now about development and really learning the game and getting better every week.

 

[paul scholes]

Very nice to get Boyd from a dog perspective.
Great job to

 

[SAA91]

Tickner has already been committed to I know for a fact, there was a great write up on the lions site about it but it was months ago during the season, so look that one up if you want. I'm not sure on Conway but other people have said we have committed to him and considering how talented he is, I wouldn't not believe that. Gribble hasn't been committed to as yet, more a wait and see but if all things stay the same we could grab as a priority selection with our last rookie pick (See Jordon Bourke, Claye Beams). This is where my understanding is shady but I thought we could grab them with our last picks opposed to our first picks. I think your thinking it's like a father-son bidding rule but I believe since they've been through the academy we could grab them as a zone selection (See Alex Sexton, Jackson Allen), so basically we grab them for scraps pick 80 and 90 for example. I may be wrong on that but I believe thats correct, which if so and all things stay true we grab at least two elite kids for nothing.

The acadamies are subject to a similar process as father-son bidding. See link from lions website below. Only Rookies are zone selected now so other clubs have no say. The lions would want Tickner to have a very quiet year in 2013 so interest from other clubs is low to keep his perceived value down.

http://www.lions.com.au/season/reserves/academy/hla-drafts-trading

 

[KJpie]

I think you could be right about Elijah. It depends on how strong his season is. If he projects as a guy who can play in season one then perhaps he is taken with that final draft selection but otherwise and more likely he is taken as a rookie with that final rookie selection.

It is a small team though.

All of Dwyer/Martin/Mooney have an opportunity to be senior listed with Hudson that only certainty at this stage. It will come down to who trains best. Mooney of the three while I might be against the grain but I think he has that best opportunity to find a regular position in our side as that forward.
But Dwyer and Martin both very capable of playing senior football and will present as very solid depth options both through the midfield and rotating forward.

Russell has that chance for a role down back as that kickout specialist and as that attacking styled backman. Just depends on how he trains, whether he impresses and whether he gets back to playing his better footy which he hasn't played these last few years but has in the past shown he can produce.

Caff will be interesting. I think we might utilise him in the back half. Might also get some opportunities through the midfield (though with the additions of Dwyer and Martin will be difficult to find minutes). I'm hoping he gets time forward but I think it might be difficult for him to pass Goldsack by who in 2012 really surprised in that 3rd tall forward role and is probably a touch more threatening as a goalkicking option which is why I favour him slightly, but if Caff returns to his 2010 form then you can't count him out and he's certainly better up forward than down back with his pace only ok down back and not really that elite rebounding player.



Jolly likely plays around 16-18 H+A games this season then finals. I expect Witts to play the majority of those games where Jolly rests as that no.1 ruckman with Buckley voicing that he wants to get games into Witts this season. Grundy I expect plays more key forward this year in the VFL looking to further add that string to his bow (no urgency for him to develop into a full time ruckman just yet) and a year as a forward hasn't hurt anyone in the past. My feeling is if Lynch misses than it is between Grundy and possibly Gault to come in to fill that key forward/ruck role.

Hudson probably plays more in the second half of the season and the plan I can only assume is that he trains, maybe plays once a month or so at VFL level and really aims to be cherry ripe in the scenario he is needed is September if for whatever reason Jolly gets hurt and is unable to play which is more what he is there for. No way Witts for example plays finals footy as a guy coming into the season who is yet to debut unless he really rips teams apart - though I'm not seeing that just yet, with the super big guys it takes well into their 20s for them to really get it and Witts still has another probably three years of development before we really know who he is and what he can do. But he is there as a coach first and his major priority is developing Witts/Grundy/Gault/Richmond and building Witts and Grundy into monsters who are capable of taking over the ruck responsibilities post Jolly.

Gault I rate more highly than most and I think he could play from round one whether it be as a no.2 ruckman, key forward or key defender. He can be thrown in at any time and his rapid development and coachability suggests he can play anytime. Not clear who he plays in front of next year but I'd be willing to throw him into any role at any time and I see no reason why he can't continue to take another big step forward this year. With K.Pendlebury gone he might again play key defence as he did in that back end of the season though with Hartley, Frost and likely a Keeffe/N.Brown also in the 2s we still have plenty of height in that back half and Gault might well find a role up forward whether it be as a key forward or even on a forward flank where he might rotate into the ruck for minor minutes as required. Might even play as a swingman if required. In any case he is that ultimate utility who can do whatever you want him to do but long term I see him playing that Leigh Brown, no.2 ruck role where he can play 15% ruck minutes but then play within a forward structure without making the forwardline feel too tall.

Richmond while he probably has a decent leap I'm not sure I'd be playing him through the ruck at all. I'd be wanted Witts/Grundy/Gault and Hudson when playing to get those minutes instead. Richmond likely plays most of the season up forward but likely also gets tried down back just to give him a try of different things. I'd be surprised to see him play more than 15 VFL games next season and is more a long term development project who will need a good three years before we know who he is. Expect a slow start to the VFL season and look for him more to get comfortable in that back half of the season. But it's all for now about development and really learning the game and getting better every week.

Thanks for that,

My understanding is Bucks made the call on Witt's senior games prior to us acquiring Grundy, it will ultimately provide some fantastic competition between the 2 lads and that can only be a good thing! I also understood that the pies wanted to develop Witt's as a forward/ ruckman and that Grundy at present would be the purer of the 2 as a ruckman without the tank issues Witt,s currently holds. That said both will be required to work on there weaknesses as they continue to develop, i.e. Witt's to develop tank in the VFL (and that won't happen lugging him at full forward and Grundy to continue to develop as a forward in a key post.

As for Hudson it is a big ask for a guy of that age to play one game a month and be available at the end of the year or if Jolly falls over near the finals (hope that doesn't happen), match fitness is priceless even in ones prime.

Agreed the minute Gault was drafted, the first thing that come to mind was a taller replacement for Leigh Brown. I too rate Gault, however last year it was proven he seemed far more comfortable in defence than up forward in his first year in the VFL. Key forward is a tough gig for the young lads as you would well know. That said he will have to make a position his own in the VFL or as you state be able to swing before he earns elevation to the senior team because as you rightly state that is where the 85% of his game time lies. I would actually like to see Brown given a shot forward at stages through the year to allow the club to say play Gault at centre half back.

I put a big part of Goldy's 2012 form down to Buck's, I don't think Malthouse was a huge fan and it seemed obvious that Goldy knew it. Would be surprised if he would still be at the club if Malthouse was.

As for Richmond, i feel its a big ask for him to make the grade, but wish him well! Plus there's the real prospect of young Moore joining us in just over a year as I suspect the club will requests he be allowed to train with the main squad for the entirety of 2014 with the prospect of drafting him (Ala Viney etc).

 

[Knightmare]

Thanks for that,

My understanding is Bucks made the call on Witt's senior games prior to us acquiring Grundy, it will ultimately provide some fantastic competition between the 2 lads and that can only be a good thing! I also understood that the pies wanted to develop Witt's as a forward/ ruckman and that Grundy at present would be the purer of the 2 as a ruckman without the tank issues Witt,s currently holds. That said both will be required to work on there weaknesses as they continue to develop, i.e. Witt's to develop tank in the VFL (and that won't happen lugging him at full forward and Grundy to continue to develop as a forward in a key post.

As for Hudson it is a big ask for a guy of that age to play one game a month and be available at the end of the year or if Jolly falls over near the finals (hope that doesn't happen), match fitness is priceless even in ones prime.

Agreed the minute Gault was drafted, the first thing that come to mind was a taller replacement for Leigh Brown. I too rate Gault, however last year it was proven he seemed far more comfortable in defence than up forward in his first year in the VFL. Key forward is a tough gig for the young lads as you would well know. That said he will have to make a position his own in the VFL or as you state be able to swing before he earns elevation to the senior team because as you rightly state that is where the 85% of his game time lies. I would actually like to see Brown given a shot forward at stages through the year to allow the club to say play Gault at centre half back.

I put a big part of Goldy's 2012 form down to Buck's, I don't think Malthouse was a huge fan and it seemed obvious that Goldy knew it. Would be surprised if he would still be at the club if Malthouse was.

As for Richmond, i feel its a big ask for him to make the grade, but wish him well! Plus there's the real prospect of young Moore joining us in just over a year as I suspect the club will requests he be allowed to train with the main squad for the entirety of 2014 with the prospect of drafting him (Ala Viney etc).

Witts feels more like a pure no.1 ruckman. Despite his positive late 2011 form when he joined the VFL team I found his play really poor particularly early season as a key forward. Just didn't read it in well, struggled reading it in the air and not getting to the right positions, didn't anticipate where the drop of the ball would be, leading patterns poor, didn't hold his position as you'd expect he would at his size, didn't crash packs like he probably should be at his size. He just felt really stagnant and like a weak target despite his size and just didn't have that threatening feel to his game you'd hope for from a 209cm guy. It's something that needs to improve and he'll play minor minutes up forward but I think he'll be that major no.1 ruckman at VFL level and the first call to come up to play senior football as needed with the club very keen to give him a taste for senior footy. You are right though, he will need to build his endurance up before he can become a true no.1 ruck option and this is still some way away yet and I think he'll really find this out when he starts to get some senior games.

Grundy is very different as a forward and really unlike Witts very good and capable as a forward which is why I see him starting there with both needing to play in the same VFL team. Grundy still has plenty to work on as a forward has shown much more ability with his 3 or 4 games through the u18 champs where he had 3 goals a game. He can really hit the scoreboard and at this stage has a much more advanced game when it comes to play forward of centre relative to Witts. Going off the club interviews with Hine he has also suggested that Grundy likely plays mostly forward this year which I think is the right move with his play forward of centre better than that of Witts and should long term be good for his development. He does need more ruck coaching and he'll get ruck minutes anyway in that no.2 role, but with the way some ruckmen get thrown in too early and break down at the back ends of their careers I'm in no rush to push Grundy into the ruck as that no.1 guy, 100kg frame or not. I think he can get games and I think his ability in the ruck is equal to that of Witts but I expect less games this year and perhaps more a small taste to get a feel for what senior footy is all about.

I'm probably one of the few with Gault but I like his play even more as a forward. I really enjoyed his ability to mark it in the air and take it at the highest point. He won't even be that 1v1 mark who can outmuscle a guy but with his aerial marking then ability at ground level, ability to play deep or higher with his skill level and very lively tackling game at his size and I rate him highly more as that no.2 ruckman who plays mostly in the forward half. As a key defender I just don't see who he goes past with Reid, Keeffe and N.Brown all established, AFL level key defenders then there are also Hartley and Frost who also have the opportunity to develop into something so I don't see that need for him in the back half even if his play is very sound down back. Long term I could see him co-existing in the same team with Cloke and Moore or Cloke and Paine without any difficulty because as with a Goldsack or L.Brown he has that tackling and pressure game to keep the ball in the forward half allowing that extra tall to be played without being oversized in that front half.

You are right about Goldsack. Mick does have his favourites and being that confidence player he didn't seem to really get that consistent opportunity he needed under Mick. I think he has really benefitted from that fresh start not just with the new coach but also in the forward half and while he can swing back if required he is now an asset to that front half. Long term with Paine coming through he may not hold his role, but for this year I expect another season as that 3rd tall forward certainly with Paine probably another year away until he really builds up his endurance so he can become a true 4 quarter player.

Richmond is interesting. I'm not holding too much hope either being so far back but being from a basketball background he is intriguing and a worthwhile rookie experiment. Very slim build and will need plenty of time to build that and it goes a bit further than just learning the game for Richmond. Brett Eddy as that VFL listed forward probably plays ahead of him being that more advanced footballer, but Richmond will get his chances and I do expect his development to be relatively swift, just the question will be whether we have the patience to work with him for the good 3-4 years he will need before he becomes AFL relevant. I'd probably look to give him the two years (no risk being outside of the rookie list) and evaluate whether he has developed enough to be worthwhile keeping on for another year, and from there it's a year by year type thing. Our key forward group isn't super deep so little harm keeping him on unless looking for others through similar alternative pathways who we rate more highly.

Moore could certainly join our VFL team. Luke McDonald (North Melbourne F/S) has joined Werribee this year and is doing the same as Viney did last year. Probably not a bad way to get that opportunity to train with the club and get a feel for the team structures and get that specialist coaching. The thing with Moore though being an APS kid, his school (Carey - same as Viney) will want him to play with them during their football season so his VFL exposure as with Viney will likely also be limited so he probably doesn't get that completely full season with the VFL side - so that's more of a side note but something to consider when making those list management decisions for the end of the year if Moore is to join our VFL side that year early.


Long term I'm liking:
FB Keeffe
CHB Brown
v resting ruck/other Reid (more in that Maxwell role)

Ruck 1: Grundy
Ruck 2: Gault

CHF: Moore
FF: Cloke
3rd tall: Paine

Depth: Witts, Frost, Hartley + additional key forward (likely Richmond until we find another).

 

[KJpie]

Witts feels more like a pure no.1 ruckman. Despite his positive late 2011 form when he joined the VFL team I found his play really poor particularly early season as a key forward. Just didn't read it in well, struggled reading it in the air and not getting to the right positions, didn't anticipate where the drop of the ball would be, leading patterns poor, didn't hold his position as you'd expect he would at his size, didn't crash packs like he probably should be at his size. He just felt really stagnant and like a weak target despite his size and just didn't have that threatening feel to his game you'd hope for from a 209cm guy. It's something that needs to improve and he'll play minor minutes up forward but I think he'll be that major no.1 ruckman at VFL level and the first call to come up to play senior football as needed with the club very keen to give him a taste for senior footy. You are right though, he will need to build his endurance up before he can become a true no.1 ruck option and this is still some way away yet and I think he'll really find this out when he starts to get some senior games.

Grundy is very different as a forward and really unlike Witts very good and capable as a forward which is why I see him starting there with both needing to play in the same VFL team. Grundy still has plenty to work on as a forward has shown much more ability with his 3 or 4 games through the u18 champs where he had 3 goals a game. He can really hit the scoreboard and at this stage has a much more advanced game when it comes to play forward of centre relative to Witts. Going off the club interviews with Hine he has also suggested that Grundy likely plays mostly forward this year which I think is the right move with his play forward of centre better than that of Witts and should long term be good for his development. He does need more ruck coaching and he'll get ruck minutes anyway in that no.2 role, but with the way some ruckmen get thrown in too early and break down at the back ends of their careers I'm in no rush to push Grundy into the ruck as that no.1 guy, 100kg frame or not. I think he can get games and I think his ability in the ruck is equal to that of Witts but I expect less games this year and perhaps more a small taste to get a feel for what senior footy is all about.

I'm probably one of the few with Gault but I like his play even more as a forward. I really enjoyed his ability to mark it in the air and take it at the highest point. He won't even be that 1v1 mark who can outmuscle a guy but with his aerial marking then ability at ground level, ability to play deep or higher with his skill level and very lively tackling game at his size and I rate him highly more as that no.2 ruckman who plays mostly in the forward half. As a key defender I just don't see who he goes past with Reid, Keeffe and N.Brown all established, AFL level key defenders then there are also Hartley and Frost who also have the opportunity to develop into something so I don't see that need for him in the back half even if his play is very sound down back. Long term I could see him co-existing in the same team with Cloke and Moore or Cloke and Paine without any difficulty because as with a Goldsack or L.Brown he has that tackling and pressure game to keep the ball in the forward half allowing that extra tall to be played without being oversized in that front half.

You are right about Goldsack. Mick does have his favourites and being that confidence player he didn't seem to really get that consistent opportunity he needed under Mick. I think he has really benefitted from that fresh start not just with the new coach but also in the forward half and while he can swing back if required he is now an asset to that front half. Long term with Paine coming through he may not hold his role, but for this year I expect another season as that 3rd tall forward certainly with Paine probably another year away until he really builds up his endurance so he can become a true 4 quarter player.

Richmond is interesting. I'm not holding too much hope either being so far back but being from a basketball background he is intriguing and a worthwhile rookie experiment. Very slim build and will need plenty of time to build that and it goes a bit further than just learning the game for Richmond. Brett Eddy as that VFL listed forward probably plays ahead of him being that more advanced footballer, but Richmond will get his chances and I do expect his development to be relatively swift, just the question will be whether we have the patience to work with him for the good 3-4 years he will need before he becomes AFL relevant. I'd probably look to give him the two years (no risk being outside of the rookie list) and evaluate whether he has developed enough to be worthwhile keeping on for another year, and from there it's a year by year type thing. Our key forward group isn't super deep so little harm keeping him on unless looking for others through similar alternative pathways who we rate more highly.

Moore could certainly join our VFL team. Luke McDonald (North Melbourne F/S) has joined Werribee this year and is doing the same as Viney did last year. Probably not a bad way to get that opportunity to train with the club and get a feel for the team structures and get that specialist coaching. The thing with Moore though being an APS kid, his school (Carey - same as Viney) will want him to play with them during their football season so his VFL exposure as with Viney will likely also be limited so he probably doesn't get that completely full season with the VFL side - so that's more of a side note but something to consider when making those list management decisions for the end of the year if Moore is to join our VFL side that year early.


Long term I'm liking:
FB Keeffe
CHB Brown
v resting ruck/other Reid (more in that Maxwell role)

Ruck 1: Grundy
Ruck 2: Gault

CHF: Moore
FF: Cloke
3rd tall: Paine

Depth: Witts, Frost, Hartley + additional key forward (likely Richmond until we find another).

Shite; I hope you can type fast, it would take me a week to type that much text. Last of the 2 finger typers??

 

[KJpie]

Shite; I hope you can type fast, it would take me a week to type that much text. Last of the 2 finger typers??

Time to Dream???

Witt's becomes the next Sandilands, Grundy the next Kurt Tippet with more aggression and a sense of team loyalty and Gault becomes a swing man who can fill holes everywhere!!

Works for me.

 

[KJpie]

Shite; I hope you can type fast, it would take me a week to type that much text. Last of the 2 finger typers??

Must admit I was shocked (and fellow pies supporters may be as well) to read your comments on Witt's "didn't crash packs like he probably should be at his size", "really stagnant and like a weak target despite his size" (i.e. lacking physical presence at this stage I guess).

I must admit I like the fact you call a spade a spade though.

I'm hardly surprised of your assessment as Witt's has been a mountain of a lad only playing against juniors far less than his size in a comp where he would obviously feel confident as against his first full year of playing against men in the VFL?

Whilst I agree crashing packs is different to being one on one in the center square Witt's needs to not only become comfortable but welcome physical contact if he wants to become a top line ruckman in the AFL.

 

[juzzo]

I'm confused. Are you having a conversation with yourself?

 

[Knightmare]

Must admit I was shocked (and fellow pies supporters may be as well) to read your comments on Witt's "didn't crash packs like he probably should be at his size", "really stagnant and like a weak target despite his size" (i.e. lacking physical presence at this stage I guess).

I must admit I like the fact you call a spade a spade though.

I'm hardly surprised of your assessment as Witt's has been a mountain of a lad only playing against juniors far less than his size in a comp where he would obviously feel confident as against his first full year of playing against men in the VFL?

Whilst I agree crashing packs is different to being one on one in the center square Witt's needs to not only become comfortable but welcome physical contact if he wants to become a top line ruckman in the AFL.

Witts does have a physical presence to an extent and enjoys that physical side of the game. An aspect of his game not spoken about enough is his tackling game at his size but it's more learning body position and really learning how to play forward and use that body to advantage which is still a work in progress as opposed to being soft which couldn't be further from the truth with Witts.

Coming to the club he was always going to be a project being that late starter and having those growth related injuries coming in meaning he didn't have those years of development before joining the club. He's probably a little further back than we'd like but that isn't to say that he doesn't have time to develop. Just whether he becomes that no.1 ruckman ahead of Grundy is more that question and for that reason could end up as that depth guy.

 

[offshore]

Even though it is very early KM, my view is that you have included way too many outside TAC Cup players who just aren't powerful enough. Think there will be quite a few changes to your list post national champs.

 

[Knightmare]

Even though it is very early KM, my view is that you have included way too many outside TAC Cup players who just aren't powerful enough. Think there will be quite a few changes to your list post national champs.

Expect changes a plenty.

My order is a long way off yet. Still plenty of prospects to see. Another year to play. Another Jackson Macrae can push into the top 10 from nowhere and probably a number of players I rate highly to drop off completely. Expect a very different order mid year and again at years end. With natural improvement, form ups and downs and injuries there is no accurate prediction a year out and more about getting some awareness about some of the potentials.

 

[KJpie]

I'm confused. Are you having a conversation with yourself?

No, just old age setting in, pressed the wrong reply, and to be totally honest one red to many. Was quite relaxed whilst posting though!!

 

[KJpie]

Expect changes a plenty.

My order is a long way off yet. Still plenty of prospects to see. Another year to play. Another Jackson Macrae can push into the top 10 from nowhere and probably a number of players I rate highly to drop off completely. Expect a very different order mid year and again at years end. With natural improvement, form ups and downs and injuries there is no accurate prediction a year out and more about getting some awareness about some of the potentials.

Agree with both,

If someone told me that prior to the draft as well as prior to the 2012 champs where Garner took his game to another level (regardless of dodgy shoulders) that he would go at pick 15 before Grundy 18, and that Garlett would not go in any form of the draft I would be suggesting a straight jacket be required.

 

[Roobound]

KM thanks for creating this list for discussion so early. Im interested in your thoughts on young Luke McDonald.

The times l watched him last year he played all over the park, forward back and centre and contributed
in all those areas

What are his deficiencies ? What in your eyes does he need to work on this year to make himself better ?

 

[Knightmare]

KM thanks for creating this list for discussion so early. Im interested in your thoughts on young Luke McDonald.

The times l watched him last year he played all over the park, forward back and centre and contributed
in all those areas

What are his deficiencies ? What in your eyes does he need to work on this year to make himself better ?

I'd like to see McDonald win more of his own ball and develop a stronger inside game. He is incredibly effective down back, on a forward flank or on a wing with his damaging footskills and pace but at this point he is more an outside type and if he can develop that inside game and really build that into something that can stand up at the next level, then he is really something. I'm not convinced that inside game will become a feature of his game, I think he could become a part time onballer but at this stage I see him more as a super damaging tall utility who might be able to play for periods on the ball without being that primary hard inside ball winner.

 

[Roobound]

Thanks for your thoughts KM appreciate it.

 

[Knightmare]

There is no clear no. one pick for 2014.

Truly an absurd statement.

Not a Goddard fan I take it then?

Did he take a couple of marks on you? Or do you rate another players more highly?

I see Goddard as that no.1 selection for 2014 at this stage on what I've seen if the draft was held tomorrow. The guy did pretty well to get two Tac Cup games late 2012 I thought.

Certainly in my eyes he is that most advanced player by some way for 2014. Some are excited about Darcy Moore for 2014 but to be honest I've been at times disappointed with his play and while he did towel Goddard up in the u16s I've found his play to be really unexciting down back in particular, with his play up forward strong but my sense is that he is to some extent cruising through thinking that he can get by on talent and name as opposed to really putting the work into his game to become something dominant so I'd take Goddard first.

 

[Knightmare]

No, he didn't take any marks on me, nor have I played against him.

But to suggest that there are any clear candidates this far out is absurd.

So much can happen in the next two years, men competiting against boys fall pack, boys with talent who grow a little more shine brighter.

If you want some names in contention for actually being drafted it's probably a fair call, but to suggest anything like clear number one picks, this far out is ametuer at best and inept at worst.

The 2014 crop has some exceptional talent in WA - Walsh, Clarke, Hille are very good looking prospects.

The standout, and he's not a certainty to go number one or get drafted first round because we are two years out, is Clem Smith. Truly a freak at this early stage.

Clem Smith is a heck of an athlete. Also has a real hard edge to him I've enjoyed so far. Do you have any measurements on the guy? Seems on the short side but still plenty of time and looks a top end talent if he grows some. I look forward to seeing more of him this year.

You're right. Things change. Being a great 16 year old doesn't mean you continue to dominate as an 18 year old. But none the less you have to look at players from a young age and have a feel for where they are coming from and how they are progressing.

I'm very confident in Goddard's ability and as that key forward, I see key forwards when that absolute top end going first and my thing with him is more if the draft was held tomorrow I see him as that guy. But there is always potential for things to change and someone else could take over from him if he gets content with where he's at.

But we'll see in 2014 what happens. Goddard may not be pick 1, but certainly looks a real chance to if he continues to elevate his game as expected.

 

[Yoda_]

Knightmare

Talking about 2014 prospects, young Stingray Alex Harnett is certainly one to keep an eye out for! At 179cm (at 16) he has growing to do but at such an early age completely overlooked under 16's to play seniors at Mpnfl premiers Frankston YCW and eventually debut for the stingrays (actually in the same game I managed to see the underwhelming Hugh Goddard).

Inside/Outside midfielder who is terrific overhead for someone his height and isn't afraid to stick his head over, a little bit of polish and you certainly have an eye on the kid for the early stages for 2014.



Also NSW scholarship player Jedda Clothier is available for Essendon in 2014 and seems a very likely type at 187cm (key forward at under 18/NSW seniors lever - /inside midfielder at championships level).

And while we are on scholarship types, Essendon have a young Van Der Haar who Humble Minion tracks for an Essendon specific website with all our F/S - Scholarship kids and says he is a very likely type, also available in 2014 (if I recall correctly).

 

[KJpie]

No, he didn't take any marks on me, nor have I played against him.

But to suggest that there are any clear candidates this far out is absurd.

So much can happen in the next two years, men competiting against boys fall pack, boys with talent who grow a little more shine brighter.

If you want some names in contention for actually being drafted it's probably a fair call, but to suggest anything like clear number one picks, this far out is ametuer at best and inept at worst.

The 2014 crop has some exceptional talent in WA - Walsh, Clarke, Hille are very good looking prospects.

The standout, and he's not a certainty to go number one or get drafted first round because we are two years out, is Clem Smith. Truly a freak at this early stage.

Yes Buffet, agree 2 years is a long way out and obviously things may change!
As for absurd if you don't appreciate the response/ courtesy shown by KM then feel free to go back to a Freo forum?
That said it was well known that Whitfield was a raging favorite 18 months ago to go number one, or that if Daniher was available and not a F/Son that he probably would have been No: 1. Even amateurs for most of the year were aware that Whitfield would go No: 1 as it was in the papers for most of the year.
As I'm sure your aware the kids are playing each other more often than ever over many formats. i.e. international, state levels, Aus Champs, involved in AIS scholarships, etc. With this extra exposure clubs see more of the youth on offer but also how they perform against other elite juniors. Clubs seem more than willing to choose 17 year old's in mini drafts giving up very low first round selections as was the case with Gold Coast now 2 years in a row or Melbourne with Hogan, they were prepared to offload 2 first round picks including another very early first round choice No: 3. The clubs who I would of thought knew better than you or I obviously trust their recruiters to take elite youngsters a year before their time!

 

[KJpie]

Clem Smith is a heck of an athlete. Also has a real hard edge to him I've enjoyed so far. Do you have any measurements on the guy? Seems on the short side but still plenty of time and looks a top end talent if he grows some. I look forward to seeing more of him this year.

You're right. Things change. Being a great 16 year old doesn't mean you continue to dominate as an 18 year old. But none the less you have to look at players from a young age and have a feel for where they are coming from and how they are progressing.

I'm very confident in Goddard's ability and as that key forward, I see key forwards when that absolute top end going first and my thing with him is more if the draft was held tomorrow I see him as that guy. But there is always potential for things to change and someone else could take over from him if he gets content with where he's at.

But we'll see in 2014 what happens. Goddard may not be pick 1, but certainly looks a real chance to if he continues to elevate his game as expected.

Yes Buffet, agree 2 years is a long way out and obviously things may change!
As for absurd if you don't appreciate the response/ courtesy shown by KM then feel free to go back to a Freo forum?
That said it was well known that Whitfield was a raging favourite 18 months ago to go number one, or that if Daniher was available and not a F/Son that he probably would have been No: 1. Even amateurs for most of the year were aware that Whitfield would go No: 1 as it was in the papers for most of the year.
As I'm sure your aware the kids are playing each other more often than ever over many formats. i.e. international, state levels, Aus Champs, involved in AIS scholarships, etc. With this extra exposure clubs see more of the youth on offer but also how they perform against other elite juniors. Clubs seem more than willing to choose 17 year olds in mini drafts giving up very low first round selections as was the case with Gold Coast now 2 years in a row or Melbourne with Hogan, they were prepared to offload 2 first round picks including another very early first round choice No: 3. The clubs who I would of thought knew better than you or I obviously trust their recruiters to take elite youngsters a year before their time!