Draft Watcher Knightmare's 2013 phantom draft

[AimHigh70]

I actually quite like this group of tall defenders. There isn't a lot in terms of top line ruckmen, and I'd almost have Sam Garstone in the top 5 for key forwards - which maybe says more about the depth in that position. But, the defensive stocks are looking pretty good to me - even if they are more likely to be mid to late round selections.

Outside of Darcy Gardiner, Daniel McStay and Cameron Giles both look like natural defenders and have the required size. And then you have Tom Barrass and Alex Spencer as solid options on the last line. Plus, you have the guys who are not true KPPs but project nicely as third talls - Tom Cutler, Jake Kolodjashnij, Tom Vandeluer.

Five solid options, plus some third talls is a more than respectable group. With a few rookie prospects left over.

Garstone is an interesting player, he has an invite to the National Combine, but has had just an okay season in the few games I have seen, and lots of injury problems

 

[clipboardbinocs]

35 D, 21 K, 14 H, 8 M, 5 i50, 1.0 G

Knightmare these are the stat's for Alec Waterman in Claremont's preliminary final win against Subiaco.
After being thrashed by South's in the last game, Waterman produce a game of leadership brilliance.
Best game by a player in WA colts for two years, amazing game, best game of his career to put it up in such,
a important final for his side.
Thought Subiaco would bath Claremont this week.
This kid keeps getting better that left foot is Hodge like.

Jesus mate, you need to watch more colts football.

It was an excellent game, not his best by any means, his game against East Perth earlier in the year was much better than his prelim performance, he actually got the majority of his ball forward of the center and kicked three against the Royals.

Alec is a just a natural footballer, doesn't look like a supreme athlete, but has a big engine and just reads the play a little better than most kids at his level, has very good footskills.

He's going to need to work on his pace, right now he can barrel through congestion and finds the ball laterally quite often, but he needs to continue to improve.

To his credit he is doing that thus far, and I'm sure his old man has a few wise words for him.

Great game, but best game by a colt for 2 years, hardly. Leadership brilliance, winning a tonne of the football isn't an automatic qualifier. He is a very promising father-son prospect, areas to improve and I think he'll be a very good prospect next year.

Maybe tone down the worship though, it's a bit much.

 

[Chris25]

Garstone is an interesting player, he has an invite to the National Combine, but has had just an okay season in the few games I have seen, and lots of injury problems

Injuries have unfortunately held him back, likely cost him selection for WA this year. With a full season under his belt, things could have been much different. But there is something about him, moves well for someone 195cm and has sticky hands. It's a case of looking deeper than the stats sheet.

 

[AimHigh70]

Y

Jesus mate, you need to watch more colts football.

It was an excellent game, not his best by any means, his game against East Perth earlier in the year was much better than his prelim performance, he actually got the majority of his ball forward of the center and kicked three against the Royals.

Alec is a just a natural footballer, doesn't look like a supreme athlete, but has a big engine and just reads the play a little better than most kids at his level, has very good footskills.

He's going to need to work on his pace, right now he can barrel through congestion and finds the ball laterally quite often, but he needs to continue to improve.

To his credit he is doing that thus far, and I'm sure his old man has a few wise words for him.

Great game, but best game by a colt for 2 years, hardly. Leadership brilliance, winning a tonne of the football isn't an automatic qualifier. He is a very promising father-son prospect, areas to improve and I think he'll be a very good prospect next year.

Maybe tone down the worship though, it's a bit much.

If you are going to make a quote like that make a decent number of years, like it's the best Colts game I have seen in 25 years, makes it seem even more impressive!!!

 

[thetradesman]

KM you have us getting Mitch Thorpe, have you actually heard anything or do you just think it would be a good fit for our team?

 

[THEOX]

Toumpas is one who well drops down based on what we've seen and is probably that one top end guy I'm not satisfied with having so high in hindsight. Melbourne's poor development program I feel has hurt his progress but the rest of that top 10 I had I'm otherwise relatively pleased with.

What specifically don't you like about melb development program? Do you have first hand experience with it or are you just making assumptions?

Does melb have bad development or just taken the wrong players?

 

[Bulldogsnm1]

KM are you convinced that a club will bid on McDonald before Norths first pick, I know he has played reasonably well at VFL level however I'm not convinced he has the same upside as a number of other mids in this draft, personally I have him just outside top 10, however I might be a bad judge because I also have Billings outside top 10 as well. Have you changed your opinion on either of them?

For what its worth my top 10 would be:
1.Tom Boyd - goes without saying
2.Josh Kelly - considered 3rd behind Hogan and Martin last year, gun runner, left footer, elite kick and i seen him enough to not doubt his ability to get his own ball.
3.James Aish - tossed up between Kelly and Aish for numbers 2 & 3, similar sized and both with elite disposal, just a tiny doubt on his consistancy to impact during a whole game.
4. Matthew Crouch - I love left footers who love to get the ball, he has shown at Ballarat this year he can get the ball no matter how close attention he receives. His disposal is good without being great.
5. Kade Kolodjashnij - everything i like in an outside mid, very good size, terrific speed and another excellent left foot kick.
6: Dom Sheed - WA's best prospect, tough inside mid, again good size and really no knock on him.
7. Marcus Bontempelli -two things draw me to him, his age and his improvement, very impressive this year at TAC level. I like him a lot
8. Matt Scharenberg - tossed up whether to have him in the top 10, awkward height but the wraps on him finally swayed me.
9. Cameron McCarthy - rated him 2nd of the geniune key position players, risk but the reward could be worth it.
10. Luke Dunstan - little bit like Sheen, the way the game is played now you need this type of inside mid.

Also did anyone see the AFL young guns game yesterday, if so, anyone impress?

 

[tigs2010]

What specifically don't you like about melb development program? Do you have first hand experience with it or are you just making assumptions?

Does melb have bad development or just taken the wrong players?

From speaking with recruiters of other clubs they feel Melbourne are more or less taking the right players. Roos bringing in all the people he wants/needs will make it very interesting to see what happens.

 

[BigGib]

Knightmare, what are you thoughts on the chances for Nic Amato to be drafted?

I quite liked him a lot last year but he never really got spoken about. I was surprised when he was not even rookie listed. Anyway, I have just had a look at his stats this season and they are quite impressive. Any chance?

 

[ROYAL EAGLE]

Jesus mate, you need to watch more colts football.

It was an excellent game, not his best by any means, his game against East Perth earlier in the year was much better than his prelim performance, he actually got the majority of his ball forward of the center and kicked three against the Royals.

Alec is a just a natural footballer, doesn't look like a supreme athlete, but has a big engine and just reads the play a little better than most kids at his level, has very good footskills.

He's going to need to work on his pace, right now he can barrel through congestion and finds the ball laterally quite often, but he needs to continue to improve.

To his credit he is doing that thus far, and I'm sure his old man has a few wise words for him.

Great game, but best game by a colt for 2 years, hardly. Leadership brilliance, winning a tonne of the football isn't an automatic qualifier. He is a very promising father-son prospect, areas to improve and I think he'll be a very good prospect next year.

Maybe tone down the worship though, it's a bit much.

There's no worship he just produced a great game of footy, Harley Bennell is the last player I have seen that's produced a game equal to that.
He didn't miss a target all game, and can make kicks others kids just wont attempt.
15 possessions from him is as good as 25 from others,
As for watching colts footy I am there every week watching games.
Your wrong on his pace its very good, as testing shows, he needs to work on his endurance though
but he did miss the whole preseason this year, but can be a burst player so a better engine will help him
be more consistent.
It was a big final and the kid stepped up big time.
My comments are not over the top.
Dean Kent has produced similar numbers but not had the impact Alec had on the game, Subi
tried to tag him but he kept on racking it up.

 

[Punchy Demons]

There's no worship he just produced a great game of footy, Harley Bennell is the last player I have seen that's produced a game equal to that.
He didn't miss a target all game, and can make kicks others kids just wont attempt.
15 possessions from him is as good as 25 from others,
As for watching colts footy I am there every week watching games.
Your wrong on his pace its very good, as testing shows, he needs to work on his endurance though
but he did miss the whole preseason this year, but can be a burst player so a better engine will help him
be more consistent.
It was a big final and the kid stepped up big time.
My comments are not over the top.
Dean Kent has produced similar numbers but not had the impact Alec had on the game, Subi
tried to tag him but he kept on racking it up.

Is this Chris Waterman's son?

If so, he is WCE bound & sounds like a beauty.

 

[Knightmare]

First of all, going into the champs he was coming off a pretty serious injury and hadn't played a lot of football going into it. He then inured his ankle during the champs and was never fully fit. Even so, he averaged 23 disposals and five tackles at the champs. Which, by the way, is well up from his 13 disposal average from 2012... not sure where the "no improvement" idea is coming from. The defensive side of his game is one of his strengths. He also has elite endurance and footskills. Now, not saying he should be no.1 pick obviously, but I get the feeling all you have really seen of Eli is his weight from the TAC cup record. Have you watched any TSL? Where are you getting your info on him from? Surely if you were only going by the champs, you'd be talking him up with the performances he put in. During the champs, his pressure, ball winning ability, and work rate was enourmous. His best games came against the best teams. Just not entirely sure what you are basing your rating of Eli on, tbh.

I'm judgeing Templeton on his form through the champs.

Last year I understood Templeton not to be healthy but I also understood how he dominated through the u16s and as a result coming into the year he was my highest ranked Tasmanian.

I wouldn't rate his footskills or endurance as elite. Above average certainly and better than most at this level but not dominant in either attribute by AFL standards I wouldn't have thought.

Kolodjashnij is the one who I feel stood out most from Tasmania and took my eye as someone who can easily find a role - he'll have no trouble slotting onto a back flank or wing for a team once he puts some size on his frame.

KM,

What are your thoughts on Melb trading pick #2 to GWS in exchange for Taylor Adams & compo pick #9?

Then using #9 on a mature mid via trading or on a Crouch or Sheed, as I think we need real hardness around the footy & need a handful of clearance players to go with Nathan Jones & Jack Viney.

If we were to do this I think it's a lot more value than an Aish at #2 alone.

I'm then hopeful of securing more grunt with Zac Jones with a later pick

It's a solid move. Don't be surprised if similar is also proposed for Dustin Martin and Richmond's first round selection for Aish.

Hey Knightmare, love your work mate.
After seeing Grundy touted as top 3, Colquhoun last year and even Atley a couple of years ago slip in the draft due to no fault of their own.
Just interested to see which guys you think will potentially be this years sliders or bargain picks?
Dayle Garlett is the obvious one that will likely slip lower than his worth position ability-wise but who else do you think could be a steal this year?

There are always some that slide through. Garlett I still maintain is not an early selection. He's a ready made player who can play from round one but I don't see him staying motivated or in the league as long as many predict.

No obvious sliders at this stage but as we get closer to the draft and rumours start to come out as to who may slide. My prediction at this stage is Luke Dunstan who doesn't seem to have attracted as much interest as he probably should and may slide into the 2nd round.

Cameron Conlon and Nicholas Robertson are others who may slide further than their talent suggests they should as guys who haven't played with Robertson out since round 2 or 3 and Conlon having not played since last year.

 

[Thurlow2Mackie]

I'm judgeing Templeton on his form through the champs.

Last year I understood Templeton not to be healthy but I also understood how he dominated through the u16s and as a result coming into the year he was my highest ranked Tasmanian.

I wouldn't rate his footskills or endurance as elite. Above average certainly and better than most at this level but not dominant in either attribute by AFL standards I wouldn't have thought.

Kolodjashnij is the one who I feel stood out most from Tasmania and took my eye as someone who can easily find a role - he'll have no trouble slotting onto a back flank or wing for a team once he puts some size on his frame.

We will have to agree to disagree on Templeton. My only real concern with him is his injuries. If he gets a good run without injuries, I think he could be excellent at AFL level.

Kade has got good size about him. Was standing a metre or two away from him the other day. He's looking ready to play AFL. A pre-season will help. I'd put a lot of money on his bro getting recruited also. Would be amazed if he doesn't.

Whilst we are on the subject of Tasmanians, what are your thoughts on next year's crop? We have Lachie Weller, probable first rounder. Hope he comes back to Tassie. We are looking a bit sparse apart from him though Keeping my eye on Lockhart too, but may be shallow next year. One or two others always pop up though.

 

[Knightmare]

Injuries have unfortunately held him back, likely cost him selection for WA this year. With a full season under his belt, things could have been much different. But there is something about him, moves well for someone 195cm and has sticky hands. It's a case of looking deeper than the stats sheet.

He's just your average leadup key forward. He has no point of difference. He's not a contested marking threat. He's not special in the air as a high leaper who you can't defend. He's not special agile and not going to win many if any 1v1s.

The stats sheet isn't going to get any prettier as the competition gets stronger..

KM you have us getting Mitch Thorpe, have you actually heard anything or do you just think it would be a good fit for our team?

I haven't heard anything Richmond specific as of yet. In saying that I think he might be a fit. He's essentially a better Luke McGuane as that better 3rd tall forward who can take some of the pressure off Riewoldt as a way to keep that balance that front half.

What specifically don't you like about melb development program? Do you have first hand experience with it or are you just making assumptions?

Does melb have bad development or just taken the wrong players?

Some of it can come down to poor draft selections. Lucas Cook and Jordan Gsyberts were poor selections. Sam Blease and James Strauss were both reaches back in 2008 but otherwise the other selections have been largely ok with many consensus selections and some other dare I say solid value picks at other stages so I don't put the blame as heavily onto those selecting the talent as many do as probably a lesser factor to the teams issues.

It's more seeing these players drafted and seeing them not develop into the players they have been expected to become which is where my comments about the player development come from. The development program doesn't solely relate to development coaches. The list management has been another issue with the way the talent has been so heavily turned over with 1000 games a year getting moved on. You just can't win or develop talent that way with that level of list instability.

The most significant mistake from Melbourne in my view have been in moving the veteran leadership on too early. James McDonald is still with GWS, Melbourne should not have been in such a hurry to move him on. Travis Johnstone, Brock McLean, Brent Moloney, Cameron Bruce, Brad Green. You need to keep these guys around for as long as possible and a part of successful player development comes from quality veteran leadership leading the way.

That lack of veteran leadership, questionable coaching staff, questionable player development, questionable list management/list strategy and some poor drafting decisions and Melbourne have struggled to develop a team or even develop their young talents who are largely all at the same level they were at when drafted with none of those early draft selections making that step into A-graders with Grimes, N.Jones, Frawley, Sylvia and M.Clark those only even B-grade talents on that list at this stage.

To turn things around I hope Daniel Cross is added to that list as a starting point for that veteran leadership as a guy who has more than most managed to get that absolute best out of himself. A Brad Sewell, Brock McLean, Simon Black. Really any veteran midfielders who could be had would make a difference.
That and trade into some midfielders who are ready to break out - Taylor Adams. Dustin Martin can play. George Horlin-Smith is big time and for that 2nd round selection would be a great guy to move into.

Paul Roos brings hope with him as well as some development help as a proven development coach and someone who will ensure men are brought into the fold to help things move forward.

KM are you convinced that a club will bid on McDonald before Norths first pick, I know he has played reasonably well at VFL level however I'm not convinced he has the same upside as a number of other mids in this draft, personally I have him just outside top 10, however I might be a bad judge because I also have Billings outside top 10 as well. Have you changed your opinion on either of them?

For what its worth my top 10 would be:
1.Tom Boyd - goes without saying
2.Tom Kelly - considered 3rd behind Hogan and Martin last year, gun runner, left footer, elite kick and i seen him enough to not doubt his ability to get his own ball.
3.James Aish - tossed up between Kelly and Aish for numbers 2 & 3, similar sized and both with elite disposal, just a tiny doubt on his consistancy to impact during a whole game.
4. Matthew Crouch - I love left footers who love to get the ball, he has shown at Ballarat this year he can get the ball no matter how close attention he receives. His disposal is good without being great.
5. Kade Kolodjashnij - everything i like in an outside mid, very good size, terrific speed and another excellent left foot kick.
6: Dom Sheed - WA's best prospect, tough inside mid, again good size and really no knock on him.
7. Marcus Bontempelli -two things draw me to him, his age and his improvement, very impressive this year at TAC level. I like him a lot
8. Matt Scharenberg - tossed up whether to have him in the top 10, awkward height but the wraps on him finally swayed me.
9. Cameron McCarthy - rated him 2nd of the geniune key position players, risk but the reward could be worth it.
10. Luke Dunstan - little bit like Sheen, the way the game is played now you need this type of inside mid.

Also did anyone see the AFL young guns game yesterday, if so, anyone impress?

It's an interesting list and I like the proven production theme to it with the right "potential" guys identified in Bontempelli and McCarthy as guys who can really develop on the right teams.

With McDonald he's someone you have to have watched last year to truly appreciate. He hasn't been himself this year struggling with injury and as a result his form has not been what it would otherwise be. His last two finals against Dandenong and North Ballarat in particular were exceptionally impressive last year.

I'd be very surprised to not see the Dogs nominate McDonald with their issues by foot. Gold Coast also I imagine would love him looking for some extra defenders and I don't think they'd have any issues adding another absolute weapon to that team.

Billings is another good one. It's such an even group but I'd be picking him more in that 5-10 range as that classy midfielder who can really influence games up forward. Again with Billings as with McDonald his numbers aren't as strong as they would otherwise be having also struggled with injury this year and limited his dominance.

It's just such an even top 20 that really picks 2-20 you'd be pretty happy with just about any of them.

Knightmare, what are you thoughts on the chances for Nic Amato to be drafted?

I quite liked him a lot last year but he never really got spoken about. I was surprised when he was not even rookie listed. Anyway, I have just had a look at his stats this season and they are quite impressive. Any chance?

Amato is a chance. Probably more of a rookie pick but he's a guy who continues to produce and is a professional so if a team thinks they have a role he can play he'd be a solid selection. He can shut a guy down, play inside or outside. Down back if necessary. He plays a disciplined, limited flash game which is why he probably hasn't received the attention he should but he's someone who probably deserves an opportunity.

 

[thetradesman]

KM do you think that the tigers could try to get Mcarthy because IMO we need another forward.

 

[Chris25]

He's just your average leadup key forward. He has no point of difference. He's not a contested marking threat. He's not special in the air as a high leaper who you can't defend. He's not special agile and not going to win many if any 1v1s.

The stats sheet isn't going to get any prettier as the competition gets stronger..

And again, we're talking about a mid/late round draft pick. Or potentially even a rookie pick. He performed well when fit this season, showcasing his strong hands and ability in front of goals. Received a Draft Combine invite, so obviously clubs are intrigued by the mobile 195cm forward too.

Another case of agreeing to disagree I think.

 

[Knightmare]

We will have to agree to disagree on Templeton. My only real concern with him is his injuries. If he gets a good run without injuries, I think he could be excellent at AFL level.

Kade has got good size about him. Was standing a metre or two away from him the other day. He's looking ready to play AFL. A pre-season will help. I'd put a lot of money on his bro getting recruited also. Would be amazed if he doesn't.

Whilst we are on the subject of Tasmanians, what are your thoughts on next year's crop? We have Lachie Weller, probable first rounder. Hope he comes back to Tassie. We are looking a bit sparse apart from him though Keeping my eye on Lockhart too, but may be shallow next year. One or two others always pop up though.

Lachie Weller would be the standout as someone who has already shown that he can play this year.

But no standout Tasmanians at this stage. It was a team this year carried by the relative dominance of Nankervis, the Kolodjashnij boys, Templeton, Webster and Jake Smith.

Someone will probably bob up next year but we'll have a better idea then as to who that will be.

 

[Knightmare]

KM do you think that the tigers could try to get Mcarthy because IMO we need another forward.

McCarthy is expected to be available at this stage so he may be an option.

In Richmond's situation there are a number of young bigs who can play forward - McBean, Vickery and Elton and with next year a real KPP draft I'd recommend waiting if still not satisfied with these guys and instead look for another midfielder.

 

[Sin City]

Lachie Weller would be the standout as someone who has already shown that he can play this year.

But no standout Tasmanians at this stage. It was a team this year carried by the relative dominance of Nankervis, the Kolodjashnij boys, Templeton, Webster and Jake Smith.

Someone will probably bob up next year but we'll have a better idea then as to who that will be.

Watts is the one to watch from Tassie but looking like a much leaner year than this year.

 

[Sin City]

First of all, going into the champs he was coming off a pretty serious injury and hadn't played a lot of football going into it. He then inured his ankle during the champs and was never fully fit. Even so, he averaged 23 disposals and five tackles at the champs. Which, by the way, is well up from his 13 disposal average from 2012... not sure where the "no improvement" idea is coming from. The defensive side of his game is one of his strengths. He also has elite endurance and footskills. Now, not saying he should be no.1 pick obviously, but I get the feeling all you have really seen of Eli is his weight from the TAC cup record. Have you watched any TSL? Where are you getting your info on him from? Surely if you were only going by the champs, you'd be talking him up with the performances he put in. During the champs, his pressure, ball winning ability, and work rate was enourmous. His best games came against the best teams. Just not entirely sure what you are basing your rating of Eli on, tbh.

Knightmare is closer to the mark than you. Not out to rubbish him at all because he's a good kid but he's not what you're making him out to be and it's starting to sound like you don't watch them all that much yourself.

 

[Thurlow2Mackie]

Knightmare is closer to the mark than you. Not out to rubbish him at all because he's a good kid but he's not what you're making him out to be and it's starting to sound like you don't watch them all that much yourself.

What am I making him out to be? All I am saying is that KM is wrong about his clais that a) he is "light bodied" in a way that is in anyway detrimental, b) he struggles against the bigger bodies, c) he is a non-improver, and d) he has little in the way of inside game. I believe all of those are wrong based on what I have seen. I also rate his footskills higher than KM apparently does, and I think his endurance will test very well at the combine. What have i got wrong so far?

I reckon, given a injury free run, there is a good chance he'd rate in the top 20 of this draft pool at the endof his career. Probably higher.

I don't watch all that many games, never claimed to, but I watch enough to know KM's arguments are invalid.

 

[Sin City]

What am I making him out to be? All I am saying is that KM is wrong about his clais that a) he is "light bodied" in a way that is in anyway detrimental, b) he struggles against the bigger bodies, c) he is a non-improver, and d) he has little in the way of inside game. I believe all of those are wrong based on what I have seen. I also rate his footskills higher than KM apparently does, and I think his endurance will test very well at the combine. What have i got wrong so far?

I reckon, given a injury free run, there is a good chance he'd rate in the top 20 of this draft pool at the endof his career. Probably higher.

I don't watch all that many games, never claimed to, but I watch enough to know KM's arguments are invalid.

Sorry T2M, didn't mean for it to sound like I was having a go at you. he is skinny despite what the scales apparently say, must've had lead in his pockets to weight in at only one kilogram less than Kade and combined with his shoulder problems he does struggle to stick tackles.

He is a great runner at any level. Good top end speed and really good breakaway speed, excellent endurance and work rate but his kicking is average and a lot of his kicks are rushed or fly off the side of the boot. Can be a good ball winner, especially when he's willing to get his hands dirty and win his own ball but often sits too far away from the contests and doesn't contribute enough.

You can get these Jimmy Webster types a bit later in the draft and I don't see what he offers over a Karl Amon who is just as outside but a better finisher. That said, everyone has different opinions and there could be plenty of recruiters who like what they've seen and are willing to go early on him.

 

[imabowss]

There's no worship he just produced a great game of footy, Harley Bennell is the last player I have seen that's produced a game equal to that.
He didn't miss a target all game, and can make kicks others kids just wont attempt.
15 possessions from him is as good as 25 from others,
As for watching colts footy I am there every week watching games.
Your wrong on his pace its very good, as testing shows, he needs to work on his endurance though
but he did miss the whole preseason this year, but can be a burst player so a better engine will help him
be more consistent.
It was a big final and the kid stepped up big time.
My comments are not over the top.
Dean Kent has produced similar numbers but not had the impact Alec had on the game, Subi
tried to tag him but he kept on racking it up.

mate, hes slow acccept, plus loves a cheap kick. you gotta settle down abit not sure hes the second coming of jesus.

 

[clipboardbinocs]

mate, hes slow acccept, plus loves a cheap kick. you gotta settle down abit not sure hes the second coming of jesus.

Sounds a bit like Sokol.

Waterman can play, but Subi didn't try and tag him, just more rubbish from an over excited fan.

 

[Calcium Man]

Just curious Knightmare what your thoughts are if Richmond were to trade Dusty would pick 1 (Boyd) or maybe even pick 2 be better value then say a Lycett and pick 6 or longer and pick 7.

Not say these are trades that are likely more a point of curiosity for myself on the worth to a team of two top 10 picks vs a number 1 or 2 pick.