Draft Watcher Knightmare's 2014 Phantom Draft

[jjami15]

McCartin is now listed at 193cm.

Same height as Jarryd Roughead so it's hardly too small when you can dominate as McCartin can.

Thanks Knightmare. Greatly appreciated, as said it's pretty much splitting hairs when you're talking about a few centimetres. But in saying that 195cm sounds nice, don't ask me why!

 

[Eastern Rangers]

Roughead can run and has amazing skills by hand and foot? He's got agility and amazing vision with ball in hand.

Is McCartin anything but a gorilla forward?

 

[Knightmare]

Nice to know I was thinking the same as the very learned and wise man that you are KM
I am of the opinion that the Hawks could/should trade or hit free agency for a 20-22yo up and coming mid and also an established mid.
I read that Tyler Keitel shows great leadership qualities and that is something the Hawks are big on so he'll do me at this very early stage.
Do you see Winton as more of a 3rd tall or taller running type?

Sorry mate...too man posts to read back through them all again to see if you have already been through this.

Winton could be a big bodied midfielder and that's what I'd be looking at him to with time develop into. He's not dominant through the midfield yet and not an athlete but he's tall, has size, nice skillset and some versatility so he's a fairly natural fit for Hawthorn and someone compatible with the playing group.

My vision would be to develop Winton into something like David Mundy.

 

[Knightmare]

Roughead can run and has amazing skills by hand and foot? He's got agility and amazing vision with ball in hand.

Is McCartin anything but a gorilla forward?

Don't think there is anyone else with Roughead's skills, ability and ability at ground level at his size. Early career they weren't massive strengths of his game and McCartin is probably pretty similar to who Roughead was when drafted.

McCartin has excellent vision and despite being a key forward can be a playmaker and hit the targets inside 50. He's ok at ground level but not Roughead and his movement is ok but again not as easy and natural a mover as Roughead has become. He's more a power player at the moment with his marking the most prominent strength. It will be interesting to see whether he can add more weapons to that arsenal this year and become a better rounded player.

 

[fronkalicious]

Hey km. Sorry if this has been raised previously, but do you have an early read on zaine Cordy?

 

[Knightmare]

Hey km. Sorry if this has been raised previously, but do you have an early read on zaine Cordy?

He's a low production tallish back flanker. Very light bodied. He reminds me a little of Tyson Goldsack when played in the back half. Relatively good mark and excellent tackler at his height. He can play a role but he's hardly going to get big numbers down back or be a rebounding factor.

He had a big game v Dandenong on the weekend but he's still a borderline prospect and needs more big games to really come into consideration. Still time for him though.

 

[Rancid Trogs]

Hey Knightmare,

Who is the highest quality small forward? With speed, agility, good overhead, sharp at ground level, good finisher and good defensive skills/intent. The Walters/Rioli type.

Thanks

 

[thetradesman]

Is Liam Griffiths related to Ben?

 

[tigs2010]

Is Liam Griffiths related to Ben?

Not directly. He's from NSW.

 

[thetradesman]

Not directly. He's from NSW.

Didn't read that properly!! Lol

 

[Knightmare]

Hey Knightmare,

Who is the highest quality small forward? With speed, agility, good overhead, sharp at ground level, good finisher and good defensive skills/intent. The Walters/Rioli type.

Thanks

No standout has caught my eye yet and there is certainly not Walters/Rioli quality guys yet.

Over the season hopefully an exciting small forward pops up.

Is Liam Griffiths related to Ben?

Not as far as I know.

 

[Andre the Giant]

Knightmare, I'm interested to hear what you think GWS strategy will be this year. The team seems to be coming along well and is probably unlikely to finish below Melbourne and possibly a couple of others by seasons end. Do you think GWS might trade its first pick for another senior player (small forward or defender) or do you think we will again accumulate picks to help spread our age??

I'm assuming we will trade out 3 or 4 kids that aren't getting regular games (maybe a Jaksch/O'Rourke/Buntine) and a couple of those will have first round currency so we may have a bit to play with at the pointy end of the draft once again?? Your thoughts??

 

[Knightmare]

Knightmare, I'm interested to hear what you think GWS strategy will be this year. The team seems to be coming along well and is probably unlikely to finish below Melbourne and possibly a couple of others by seasons end. Do you think GWS might trade its first pick for another senior player (small forward or defender) or do you think we will again accumulate picks to help spread our age??

I'm assuming we will trade out 3 or 4 kids that aren't getting regular games (maybe a Jaksch/O'Rourke/Buntine) and a couple of those will have first round currency so we may have a bit to play with at the pointy end of the draft once again?? Your thoughts??

It will be interesting to watch and GWS certainly have options.

GWS can continue to bring in more draft picks, bring in more experience or a bit of both.

GWS certainly to this point in the season are looking a lot more competitive and I'd recommend the club continue to look relatively more in the win now direction. There is so much youth on the list but you can see already with the additions of Shaw, Mumford, Hunt and Addison that it is veteran experience that helps youth really develop in a hurry. The more of that GWS gets in the better the youth will become.

I'd be pretty prepared to move on Matthew Buntine, Will Hoskin-Elliott, Liam Sumner and Jon O'Rourke if not getting regular games at the end of the season. If it means being able to bring in more experienced players who can fit more immediately into the best 22 and help fast track the development of the key young players then that is a great outcome for GWS.

James Frawley if he fits into the salary cap as a free agent is an intriguing free agent target to compliment Phil Davis and Sam Frost down back and allow for the offloading of many of those non playing key position players selected first round these past seasons for some other assets whether that be established players or more picks.

Taking a shot at Collingwood's Jarrod Witts might be something else to look into as a supersized Mumford in the way he plays. Collingwood might want a more immediate guy like a Giles who can better compliment Grundy as the no.2 ruckman so that might be something else GWS look into with a Boyd/Patton likely needing to play the backup ruck minutes in the future if they both want to play in the same team.

As a defender I'd recommend looking at Port Adelaide's Lewis Stevenson who should be available. Martin Gleeson if he doesn't establish himself for Essendon this year I would also make a strong play for - I certainly want him at Collingwood anyway.

For a small forward I'd just say look to the draft unless a Jeff Garlett comes onto the market. So often small forwards can be had late in the draft and for the most part they're pretty immediate players anyway regardless of size/build so I'd be on the lookout this year/next year if there is a forward talent who seems to have gone under the radar slightly.

Should GWS trade or pick the their first selection? Assuming it's pick 2/3 the best available is likely a key position player. Unless that key position player is considered best 22 material then a trade if an established player of quality is on the market may be a good choice. Too many unknowns at this stage but keeping all options open and looking for the best way to maximise the strength of the best 22 at each position in the immediate should be the priority for GWS with the group as we saw with Gold Coast last year really coming on strong and looking ready to rocket up the ladder.

 

[Slick]

Hey KM, just wondering what your thoughts are of Harry Dear and if you see him shooting into the top part of this draft class by the end of the year?

 

[Andre the Giant]

Thanks mate, very thorough and thoughtful as as always, appreciate your efforts.

 

[Knightmare]

Hey KM, just wondering what your thoughts are of Harry Dear and if you see him shooting into the top part of this draft class by the end of the year?

He's not a top end pick at this stage but he may well be worth a shot mid-late draft if he continues improving. Has kicked 3 and 4 goals from his two games so far so he's showing signs which should please Hawthorn fans. One to keep tracking.

 

[nickrebellious]

What do you think it'd take in terms of picks to acquire O'Rourke from GWS? I remember at the time it felt like they were really reaching when they used 2 & 3 on him and Plowman.

 

[Knightmare]

What do you think it'd take in terms of picks to acquire O'Rourke from GWS? I remember at the time it felt like they were really reaching when they used 2 & 3 on him and Plowman.

It will be interesting to see firstly when GWS are willing to let go of O'Rourke and if so then what the price will be.

Clubs will want his running ability.

If Hawthorn want a shot at O'Rourke a Suckling, Breust or Isaac Smith may get the conversation started. All three are list fits and are all products of NSW which would surely intrigue.
Maybe offer up the trio and you might get GWS' first round pick as well as O'Rourke if Hawthorn are looking for a mini list rebuild and want an injection of high end young midfield talent.

Another club might be able to think up a similar quality package which may intrigue GWS.

To better quantify O'Rourke's value as a pick to give a more precise idea I'd evaluate his perceived value to GWS as being worth somewhere around pick 5 - even if not best 22 at seasons end. But I'd expect GWS would be more interested in more established players who can better help them now rather than more early picks which around pick 5 is likely to be more key position players and onballers which GWS have more than enough of anyway.

 

[manny100]

I think GWS will be mindfull of topping up their list with quality young draftees for as long as they can. This will assist prolonging any turn at the 'top' they may enjoy. Its great for list age profile. They will definitely look at trading some of the players not getting a regular game while they still have good currency. Another season or so without breaking in for a regular game will effect their value.
If they see a gun KPD option they may offload talls and mids not getting a regular game and try to upgrade their pick to get their target.
Its now about quality with GWS not quantity. They have 46 players currently listed and they have to trim this.
If for example the Demons get number one pick and GWS get pick 3 or 4 in theory the Demons could do very nicely out of a trade (swap first round pick and player(s) again) if GWS are desperate to get the best player in the draft. Win/win situation. Who ever gets that number one pick will be hoping the best player is an absolute clear number 1.
GWS are in a great position. While you need 'average' players for depth who will not want out if not getting a regular game you still need young guns coming through each year and if GWS play their cards right they could manage this for a few more years with their stocks.
I think GWS will also look once again at free agent/s that fit their list as a separate issue to upgrading their picks. As their on field picks up so will their attractiveness. This way they get the best of both worlds. Anyway wait and see. No clubs may wish to take part in an upgrade situation with GWS.

 

[BlueMaster1]

KM can you tell me more about these kids

Dylan Hodge
Tiea Miles
Zaine Cordy
Luke Kennedy
Harvy Daniher
Sam Wideman
Josh Dunkley
Nicolas Mellington
Tom Holman
Antony Daw
Anthol Jetta

 

[aussierulesrules]

Not that I've seen anything of O'Rourke, but even so I would be immensely surprised if any clubs would be willing to trade a pick like 5 for him this year, unless he starts to blitz.

For starters, it was pretty widely considered that he was a bit of a "reach" at 2, was it not, because GWS already had plenty of inside ball winning ability (ie. not much need for Ollie Wines), but were in pretty desperate need of polish and excellent footskills and also run and size down back (hence taking O'Rourke and Plowman at 2 and 3, which I doubt hugely anyone else would have done) and also because GWS seemed to only be willing to draft anyone from Vic Metro, which is probably why they chose O'Rourke over the much more highly touted (pretty much everywhere, all year) Jimmy Toumpas.

So at a bare minimum I reckon most clubs would have rated O'Rourke behind all of Whitfield, Toumpas and Wines (who WB likely overlooked because they too were stocked for "inside mids", meaning he fell in Port's lap!) and then of course there was Joe Daniher, who most seemed to consider the no.1 or at worst 2. best "talent" in the draft, but who Essendon were able to get at no.10, through F/S. As far as "talent" goes, Brodie Grundy was probably generally rated higher as well, but slide big-time for probably a couple of reasons, including how he is alleged to have interviewed.

Then of course you had Jaegar O'Meara and Brad Crouch who would have usually been right in the mix for a top 5 pick that year had they not been snapped up in the twice-off mini draft the previous year, so they might have pushed O'Rourke back to as low as 7 at a minimum had it been an uncompromised draft as this year is likely to be in those regards.

On top of all that he has hardly played seniors since he joined GWS and I believe he has had some injury issues, so those two facts could also make clubs less willing to part with a high pick for him, especially in a "KPP draft".

Just my gut feel, but based on all the above, if GWS started asking for a pick like 5 for him this year I think the other clubs would tell them they're dreaming if he doesn't start to really show a heap in a hurry.

 

[Knightmare]

I think GWS will be mindfull of topping up their list with quality young draftees for as long as they can. This will assist prolonging any turn at the 'top' they may enjoy. Its great for list age profile. They will definitely look at trading some of the players not getting a regular game while they still have good currency. Another season or so without breaking in for a regular game will effect their value.
If they see a gun KPD option they may offload talls and mids not getting a regular game and try to upgrade their pick to get their target.
Its now about quality with GWS not quantity. They have 46 players currently listed and they have to trim this.
If for example the Demons get number one pick and GWS get pick 3 or 4 in theory the Demons could do very nicely out of a trade (swap first round pick and player(s) again) if GWS are desperate to get the best player in the draft. Win/win situation. Who ever gets that number one pick will be hoping the best player is an absolute clear number 1.
GWS are in a great position. While you need 'average' players for depth who will not want out if not getting a regular game you still need young guns coming through each year and if GWS play their cards right they could manage this for a few more years with their stocks.
I think GWS will also look once again at free agent/s that fit their list as a separate issue to upgrading their picks. As their on field picks up so will their attractiveness. This way they get the best of both worlds. Anyway wait and see. No clubs may wish to take part in an upgrade situation with GWS.

GWS have their options. Some moves they'll make will be for picks over the coming years. Others will be for established players. They'll be looking for value and good list fits. They have more than enough ways to get the outcomes they want with their list.

KM can you tell me more about these kids

Dylan Hodge
Tiea Miles
Zaine Cordy
Luke Kennedy
Harvy Daniher
Sam Wideman
Josh Dunkley
Nicolas Mellington
Tom Holman
Antony Daw
Anthol Jetta

Zaine Cordy is draft eligable this year. Possible late/rookie choice but nothing incredible.

Josh Dunkley is eligable next year as F/S for Sydney and is worth a top 3 pick. One for Sydney fans to definitely watch for (son of Andrew).

Not that I've seen anything of O'Rourke, but even so I would be immensely surprised if any clubs would be willing to trade a pick like 5 for him this year, unless he starts to blitz.

For starters, it was pretty widely considered that he was a bit of a "reach" at 2, was it not, because GWS already had plenty of inside ball winning ability (ie. not much need for Ollie Wines), but were in pretty desperate need of polish and excellent footskills and also run and size down back (hence taking O'Rourke and Plowman at 2 and 3, which I doubt hugely anyone else would have done) and also because GWS seemed to only be willing to draft anyone from Vic Metro, which is probably why they chose O'Rourke over the much more highly touted (pretty much everywhere, all year) Jimmy Toumpas.

So at a bare minimum I reckon most clubs would have rated O'Rourke behind all of Whitfield, Toumpas and Wines (who WB likely overlooked because they too were stocked for "inside mids", meaning he fell in Port's lap!) and then of course there was Joe Daniher, who most seemed to consider the no.1 or at worst 2. best "talent" in the draft, but who Essendon were able to get at no.10, through F/S. As far as "talent" goes, Brodie Grundy was probably generally rated higher as well, but slide big-time for probably a couple of reasons, including how he is alleged to have interviewed.

Then of course you had Jaegar O'Meara and Brad Crouch who would have usually been right in the mix for a top 5 pick that year had they not been snapped up in the twice-off mini draft the previous year, so they might have pushed O'Rourke back to as low as 7 at a minimum had it been an uncompromised draft as this year is likely to be in those regards.

On top of all that he has hardly played seniors since he joined GWS and I believe he has had some injury issues, so those two facts could also make clubs less willing to part with a high pick for him, especially in a "KPP draft".

Just my gut feel, but based on all the above, if GWS started asking for a pick like 5 for him this year I think the other clubs would tell them they're dreaming if he doesn't start to really show a heap in a hurry.

Don't confuse my rating with that of where clubs may have rated O'Rourke. I expect clubs rated him higher than many of us casual bigfooty observers.

With GWS unless they get the value they want for him they'll hold. They need more pace anyway so they're hardly motivated to move him unless a very strong offer is there.

 

[Yoda_]

Sam Heavyside officially on my 'watch list' Knightmare

 

[Knightmare]

Sam Heavyside officially on my 'watch list' Knightmare

Not a new name but a good name.

He's been one of the better little midfielders going around for a while now.

I'd be surprised if he didn't have a strong season in the VFL.

 

[Yoda_]

Not a new name but a good name.

He's been one of the better little midfielders going around for a while now.

I'd be surprised if he didn't have a strong season in the VFL.

17 possessions & 7 tackles in a 50 point thrashing by the VFL cats should well and truly put his name up as someone to take notice of. (only 3 handball receives so he is collecting his own ball as well).