Lance Franklin is inconsistent & has done nothing since 2008 and other messages from Uranus

[doppleganger]

Here's a quick comparison to other three dominant CHFs over the past 2 seasons
(Games played, av possessions, av goals, av bhds, av tackles)

Feel free to add your thoughts about Franklin's pre-eminence, or maybe you'd like to debunk some of the other stupid myths that ignorant people like to spout.

There is nothing wrong with putting Buddy at #1....but it doesn't fit with the rest of the rankings.

N.Roo @ 5
Pav @ 14
J.Brown @ 13

Your rankings show Buddy is similar to those blokes.....yet he is ranked much more favorably, for what.....because he can run along the boundary and kick a goal????

The best young KPF of 2010, J.Riewoldt only comes in @ 23.....which shows that as a general rule Mike doesn't appear to rate the key goal kickers that highly.

Most people are a bit miffed that Buddy bolts to #1, where guys like Pav are down @ 13 and a guy like J.Riewoldt is @ 23 behind blokes like Cyril and Junior Burgoyne!!

IMO Buddy is deserved #1, but by the same token guys like J.Riewoldt, should also be much higher up the list.

PS. the Brownlow has always been a midfielder's award, as you play your best player's where the ball is.

 

[doppleganger]

Geelong has won 83% of their games in that time, compared to Hawthorn's 59% winning average. The Cats have also kicked 1655 goals compared the Hawks total of 1326. So even allowing for the Pussies sharing it around, you would think that Franklin would probably average 10-20 goals MORE per season if he'd played for Geelong.

http://www.bigfooty.com/forum/showthread.php?t=737070

Can argue that toss of the coin the other way too.

Ie Franklin is the inside 50 target much more often than any cat....so will always have more opportunity to score more goals.

The stats show that if you kick the ball to S.Johnson he will convert more often than Buddy....

Perhaps Buddy would average 10-20 goals less per season if he played for Geelong.

 

[Gus]

only held goalless once in 2010, yet the guy who did it is just a loose man according to some and isn't even a top 20 player in the comp according to Sheahan.

 

[sainter35]

I wouldnt have called him inconsistent but I still believe we have seen his very best already over a full season. He is the kind of person who will be happy to cash in 60 goal seasons (no disgrace by the way, its a good season from him but not a great one) for the rest of his career. Doesn't seem to have the trait that makes truly great players continually strive to be better. Now that his team is just mediocre (9th and then 7th last two years) he would really need to take the next step as a player to dominate the competition again, and he wont be doing that by plateauing or going backwards as he seems to be doing.

Also, he's not reeeaaally a CHF but anyway.

This is all.

FFS comparing Buddy as a FF (who last few years has tried to stay at home and wrestle in the goal square) to a roaming TRUE CHF in Nick Riewoldt shows just how dumb some people are and who doesnt watch football.

By all means compare Buddy to Hall, Mooney, etc but please don't make shyte up that suddenly the guys a CHF cause he aint.

He plays FF and occasionally (when his tank doesnt blow up) roams up the ground to get a kick and kicks the odd freaky goal.

What a joke of a comparison to true CHF's.....

 

[Simon_Nesbit]

In 05/06 Franklin was a HFF, whilst he built up his strength. (Could even call him a FP).

In 07 and 08 he made the move to FF, and became our key focus. Hawthorn played two genuine FF in 07/08 with four marking players deep (Williams, Dixon, Roughy, Buddy).

The hand injury in late 08 took what was an unnatural (and generally only ok) marking technique and took it back closer to the 05 version (essentially chest mark only). Now he had the body size/strength - but not the arm or hand strength to hold onto the ball. But he was far too valuable to leave out for 6-8 weeks.

So instead he reverted back to the HFF role, and the club adopted the somewhat unusual 18-man zone with no-one forward of the ball. Made great use of his athletic attributes (and gave us the likes of the Essendon GOTY's) but overall restricted his output. With so many injuries through 09/10, Franklin's speed was used as a genuine midfield option, rather than as an outright forward.

This year he's doing marking practice for the first time since the 08 pre-season. With the addition of Hale (...and Pace ) perhaps HFC will play more of a 2008 style - Franklin to FF and aim to kick 100 goals - or perhaps he will continue his CHF/HF/wing role, get 20+ touches and 3 goals a game.

Which makes me wonder, is Franklin the reverse Ablett Snr? My recollection of Ablett was years as a 20 touch, 3 goal wingman and then a brief stint as the unbeatable 100-goal FF.

 

[Mitchell Madness]

it is amazing how many people say he is incosistent

as what mike sheahan said, he kicked 70 odd goals and had 15 odd touches a game, yet had a "bad year" from the standard of most punters.

If franklin doesnt kick 5 goals and have 20 touches hes in bad form, and even if he does get those stats its "average"


this in itself is why he is rated so highly by hawthorn fans, and in this case, sheahan

 

[Simon_Nesbit]

This is all.

FFS comparing Buddy as a FF (who last few years has tried to stay at home and wrestle in the goal square) to a roaming TRUE CHF in Nick Riewoldt shows just how dumb some people are and who doesnt watch football.

By all means compare Buddy to Hall, Mooney, etc but please don't make shyte up that suddenly the guys a CHF cause he aint.

He plays FF and occasionally (when his tank doesnt blow up) roams up the ground to get a kick and kicks the odd freaky goal.

What a joke of a comparison to true CHF's.....

Please take that crap to the Bay.

Franklin now covers more territory than Reiwoldt, and much to the dismay of many (most?) HFC fans is playing further and further up the ground, to make the most of his unique height/weight/speed/endurance combination.

Would I prefer 08 version, where he split his time (ala Carey/Hall/Brereton/etc) between CHF and FF and kicked 110+ goals? Probably.

But the club currently feels he offers more being a 20-touch, 3-goal player.

Kinda like Reiwoldt, but with more disposals, tackles, goals, shepards, etc, etc. Who knows, maybe with two good hands, and only one opponent he might take more marks too?

Reiwoldt should be thankful that Pavlich and Tredrea never played in Victoria.

 

[JoondalupJ]

I keep hearing crazy talk about how inconsistent Lance Franklin is. I also keep hearing about how he's done nothing since 2008. I don't know if Buddy is the best footballer in the AFL (he's gotta be up there) but what I do know is that the 2010 All Australian CHF is one of the most consistent performers in the AFL. He has carried the load for Hawthorn since they won the flag in 2008. The team has struggled into 9th and 7th place and the delivery into their forward line has been generally atrocious, but Buddy has been a constant shining light.


Here's Buddy's stats for the 2010 season just to illustrate how terribly INCONSISTENT he has been...

(T = tackles)

Here's a quick comparison to other three dominant CHFs over the past 2 seasons
(Games played, av possessions, av goals, av bhds, av tackles)

Pav has spent more time in the midfield (hence more possessions and tackles, but fewer goals & behinds) but it's obvious Franklin now sits comfortably alongside the three best CHFs of the modern era. And to think these stats were accrued in years when people thought he was a bit down. I suspect he'll go even better in 2011 now that he is entering the prime of his career.

Feel free to add your thoughts about Franklin's pre-eminence, or maybe you'd like to debunk some of the other stupid myths that ignorant people like to spout.

Don't mention Buddy and Pav in the same sentence, Pav is a good player Lance Franklin
is a freak footballer. He looks awkward at times and misses occasionally he has a strange kicking style at times, but he is a super runner, his skills are magic, and he is without doubt totally consistant in all those things, that means the bad things sometimes, and the fantastic things most of the time.

 

[David the Cat]

Don't mention Buddy and Pav in the same sentence, Pav is a good player Lance Franklin
is a freak footballer. He looks awkward at times and misses occasionally he has a strange kicking style at times, but he is a super runner, his skills are magic, and he is without doubt totally consistant in all those things, that means the bad things sometimes, and the fantastic things most of the time.

Don't mention Pavlich and Franklin in the same sentence? This is the kind of parochial exaggeration the distinguishes some...some...Hawk supporters from those who produce balanced and considered opinions in this place.

IF you bother you will see my opinion of Franklin a little earlier. Clearly I think he's a wonderful player. But if you take a moment to remove your yellow and brown glasses, you might accept that Pavlich is also a quality player and deserves without doubt to be mentioned in the same breath as Franklin.

Some would argue he is every bit as good....and I am sure could mount a case to support it.

 

[Portia]

Franklin isn't inconsistent, he just isn't capable of making up for the number of schlubs Hawthorn carry in other areas on field every week of every year.

 

[MiloMinderbinder]

This year he's doing marking practice for the first time since the 08 pre-season.

is this true?

if so, thats remarkable.

i wouldnt have thought is hand injury would have restricted him to that extent.

 

[That's deliberate]

Franklin is a superstar of the competition and a delight to watch, everything every fan from every club would love to see more of.

Opposition fans look forward to watching him play against their club and that"s saying something.

You would find very few people, if any, that don't respect and love the way he goes about it, and he's a decent bloke to boot,

Comparisons to the other elite forwards of the game is futile, they all have special qualities and are elite for a reason.

He will go down as one of the all times greats the game has ever seen so just enjoy it while it lasts.

 

[rainman06]

Please take that crap to the Bay.

Franklin now covers more territory than Reiwoldt, and much to the dismay of many (most?) HFC fans is playing further and further up the ground, to make the most of his unique height/weight/speed/endurance combination.

Would I prefer 08 version, where he split his time (ala Carey/Hall/Brereton/etc) between CHF and FF and kicked 110+ goals? Probably.

But the club currently feels he offers more being a 20-touch, 3-goal player.

Kinda like Reiwoldt, but with more disposals, tackles, goals, shepards, etc, etc. Who knows, maybe with two good hands, and only one opponent he might take more marks too?

Reiwoldt should be thankful that Pavlich and Tredrea never played in Victoria.

You are the one who belongs in bay 13, this is drivel.

Franklin does not cover more ground than Riewoldt. Franklins 1 or 2 kickchasing efforts up to the wing a quarter does not compare to Riewoldts 10-12 70 metre leads to the backside of the wing and back per quarter.

 

[Crow-mo]

Suffers for his own brilliance, as like Carey was, his best is head and shoulders above everybody else.

this.

i'm a huge fan, but he is lazy at times. if its not going for him, he doesn't work as hard as he could. the point being he has so much ability there is a minimum that he's going to return.

I don't think a great, generational talent is consistent because his numbers line up with mortals.

at his best Buddy is unplayable, at his more ordinary he is still very good. the differential is too big, no matter the standard of the floor to say he is consistent. he's not.

but he's still very influential when he's not at his best

 

[Slattery_20]

I'm always amazed by where this "has no tank" thing comes from.
Is it because he wheezes & puffs the cheeks out after he's run the ball 50m?

Guy does far too much running to think that. Even when he was carrying a bit in early 09. Freak athlete.

 

[who_let_the_dogs_out]

The guy is a freak. That sort of athleticism and speed for his height can't be compared with any another CHF in the league.

I will say this much though, Lake matches up pretty well against him

 

[HyperAgressiveDonk]

this.

i'm a huge fan, but he is lazy at times. if its not going for him, he doesn't work as hard as he could. the point being he has so much ability there is a minimum that he's going to return.

I actually wonder how much football some of you guys watch, because there are a lot of blatant lies people post and try and pass off as fact. Franklin is the hardest worker in our side without a doubt. He covers so much ground and that's the reason he averaged nearly 18 touches, 3.6 goals and over 3 tackles a game last year, lining up as a high half forward. Nick Riewoldt has never and will probably never get close to those numbers playing in a similair position.

The amount of shite people speak is bordering on absurd on this site atm.

 

[Strapping Young Lad]

The Ignore list is your friend, HAD.

 

[Pessimistic]

You are the one who belongs in bay 13, this is drivel.

Franklin does not cover more ground than Riewoldt. Franklins 1 or 2 kickchasing efforts up to the wing a quarter does not compare to Riewoldts 10-12 70 metre leads to the backside of the wing and back per quarter.

Happy about that. Perhaps Nick misses critical shots because he is knackered ?

 

[Pessimistic]

For a goal machine, I prefer Dunstall.

No sure how congested forward lines would have affected jason's game though

 

[HyperAgressiveDonk]

The Ignore list is your friend, HAD.

Hehe, I think I'm going to have to start using it, because I'm getting roped into those kind of responses a lot!

 

[EB&W Pieman]

For every Didak there's a Boyd.

I loved your post but feel the need to pick you up on this. The reality is that for every Didak there are at least half-a-dozen Boyds.

The generic term 'Didak' implies brilliance, super talents, rampant inconsistency, but with the ability to turn a game in ten minutes; can create a goal out of nothing. They are NEVER captain. There are very few of them in the AFL. .Several clubs don't have one. Others have try-hard Didak Wannabees (eg Agnes Morefrees). Club supporters love their 'Didaks' - opposition supporters hate them. Last year, a football writer described the frustration of Fantasy Football with the expression "You even have to cheer for Alan Didak".

The generic term 'Boyd' implies doggedness (no pun intended), courage, footy nous, leadership, competitiveness, unswervingly consistency - if they have a bad one you KNOW they have played with an injury that would have sidelined your average 'Didak' for a fortnight. But there are tons of them in the AFL; most clubs have three or four. Club supporters LOVE their 'Boyds' - opposition supporters respect them.

But there are a lot more 'Boyds' than there are 'Didaks'.

FWIW.

 

[who_let_the_dogs_out]

I loved your post but feel the need to pick you up on this. The reality is that for every Didak there are at least half-a-dozen Boyds.

The generic term 'Didak' implies brilliance, super talents, rampant inconsistency, but with the ability to turn a game in ten minutes; can create a goal out of nothing. They are NEVER captain. There are very few of them in the AFL. .Several clubs don't have one. Others have try-hard Didak Wannabees (eg Agnes Morefrees). Club supporters love their 'Didaks' - opposition supporters hate them. Last year, a football writer described the frustration of Fantasy Football with the expression "You even have to cheer for Alan Didak".

The generic term 'Boyd' implies doggedness (no pun intended), courage, footy nous, leadership, competitiveness, unswervingly consistency - if they have a bad one you KNOW they have played with an injury that would have sidelined your average 'Didak' for a fortnight. But there are tons of them in the AFL; most clubs have three or four. Club supporters LOVE their 'Boyds' - opposition supporters respect them.

But there are a lot more 'Boyds' than there are 'Didaks'.

FWIW.

I'd agree with that, spot on

 

[eldorado]

He is the kind of person who will be happy to cash in 60 goal seasons (no disgrace by the way, its a good season from him but not a great one) for the rest of his career. Doesn't seem to have the trait that makes truly great players continually strive to be better. .

Thank you for your insight into Buddy's mind, Professor Freud...

Say g'day for me when you next talk to him.

 

[Partridge]

I've read far too many times that Franklin is 'lazy' or doesn't work hard enough, which is blatant BS. He leads by example on the track, and busts his arse out on the paddock.

Good to see that he's looking in top shape for the start of the season too.

Being honest, as an opposition fan I've never ever thought this. The only possible criticism I could make of Franklin is he sometimes gets frustrated and gives away dumb free kicks. However he's hardly the only forward in the league suffering from this condition.

Hawthorn may have issues elsewhere on the field but Franklin's form is not one of them. Not to me anyway.