Lights Out!

[VineyIsLORD]

This is the down side of every state taking a different approach to power. Especially when In the eastern states you all share energy.
QLD labor allowed for the gas to exported without setting a demostic supply limit .
http://www.news.com.au/finance/econ...s/news-story/4187e60617aec18e87d57453cfca0167


We are lucky in the west we set domestic reserve limits, and have built our grid to be self sufficient due to distance.

The market simply doesnt work in monopolistic industries. This is where a socialist approach is the only viable option, and produces significantly better outcomes.

 

[WCE1987]

Do you reckon a mining tax may of helped? And with this tax revenue, a government that was committed to transitioning and working with the states into renewables? That may of helped too....
We are just a backwards country that the world uses as a quarry.

I think the ETS would of push the price of coal stations way up, and made it on equal cost to building a nuclear station. Nuclear would of been the next logical base load energy source like it is in the states, uk and America.

 

[WCE1987]

They are what now?

EBA's are negotiated by unions, if any one failed the workers it wasnt the companies.

 

[WCE1987]

Yeh ok!

"The Gillard government was relaxed, boastful even. It ruled out introducing a gas reservation policy along the lines of the one in Western Australia that stipulates that a certain percentage of local gas has to be retained for local consumption."
http://www.smh.com.au/comment/how-the-big-three-robbed-us-of-our-own-gas-20170315-guydtp.html

 

[WCE1987]

The market simply doesnt work in monopolistic industries. This is where a socialist approach is the only viable option, and produces significantly better outcomes.

Yes and No
You need to be a realist. Australia is a Continent the size of the US, but with a population 23 mil we just wouldnt have the money to run all government own projects.
The scale, speed, savings and efficiency that business can get from projects is beneficial
What you need is good government oversight, smart regulation and future thinking of those resources.
E.g If you think that people are going to be less reliant on grid power from coal, due to solar. Sell the coal so that you can then use that money to stimulate the market towards solar. And example of this was government rebates on solar, companies supplied, economies of scale kicked in, panels get cheaper and the transition to house hold solar begins.

Don't fear business you can manipulate it with a smart government.

Also, Australia uses a different form of economics to the united states, that's why we are considered more towards the middle than the right. Unlike the US who use a very free market focused approach style of economics.

 

[nut]

Yes and No
You need to be a realist. Australia is a Continent the size of the US, but with a population 23 mil we just wouldnt have the money to run all government own projects.
The scale, speed, savings and efficiency that business can get from projects is beneficial
What you need is good government oversight, smart regulation and future thinking of those resources.
E.g If you think that people are going to be less reliant on grid power from coal, due to solar. Sell the coal so that you can then use that money to stimulate the market towards solar. And example of this was government rebates on solar, companies supplied, economies of scale kicked in, panels get cheaper and the transition to house hold solar begins.

Don't fear business you can manipulate it with a smart government.

Also, Australia uses a different form of economics to the united states, that's why are consider more toward the middle than the right. Unlike the US who use a very free market focused approach style of economics.

Norway was able to develop the North Sea ... a little bit harder than digging up iron ore or coal from the surface.
Trillion dollars in thier sovereign wealth fund now.
If only Gough Whitlam got that loan.

 

[WCE1987]

Norway was able to develop the North Sea ... a little bit harder than digging up iron ore or coal from the surface.
Trillion dollars in thier sovereign wealth fund now.
If only Gough Whitlam got that loan.

Dare to dream.
But that's my point Norway is 1/7th the size of WA.
Imaging that from a funding decision stand point? Literally every project they would do like roads, power poles and water pipelines would cost substantially less. Australia just wouldn't of ever had the funds to solely invest in one area like energy and do it to scale without cutting funding to other areas needed to sustain supporting a population spread out across the land mass of Australia

 

[WCE1987]

That has nothing to do with the original post that gas companies are screwing over workers.

Also gas companies in Victoria are screwing their workers over on dodgy EBA's

That was literally in the post

 

[WCE1987]

We have been exporting gas for decades under both Liberal and Labor governments,but you somehow blame everything on the ALP!

Not blaming solely ALP, but people where purely bashing on LNP, when its both sides that have effected this issue. I even said in my original POST 'in the last 10 years' just to highlight modern governments decisions.

Neither can go take the moral high ground now.

 

[WCE1987]

You mentioned a single political party in your post 4 times.

Because thats what their modern governments have done

 

[WCE1987]

Your post had nothing to do with the posters comments.

What the hell are on about the post said
Also gas companies in Victoria are screwing their workers over on dodgy EBA's
I just said that unions negotiated EBA's. If their being screwed and EBA is dodgy unions would of impacted that as well, not just the companies.

 

[Hawk Dork]

Japan's petroleum and coal tax applies to imports at a rate that equates to $22 a tonne of Australian LNG.

The levy was raised in 2012 from 1080 Japanese Yen per tonne to 1860 per tonne under a new rate known as the "special provision for tax for climate change mitigation".

Treasurer Scott Morrison is weighing up whether to rework the Labor-designed PRRT scheme, against veiled threats from the petroleum industry to launch a mining tax-like campaign against changes to the system.

http://www.smh.com.au/federal-polit...m-australian-gas-than-us-20170314-guxy4n.html

If a mining tax and a carbon tax was still in place it could have been tweaked

 

[WCE1987]

I wasn't trying to say it was all ALPs. Its just recently that those parties in power have made mistakes, and that has impacted current policy. I agree that both federal/states of both parties have have impact the issue over years/decades. I was merely highlighting the recent ALP decisions, as most conversations I've seen have been about LNP and companies impact.

I'm also more critical of current/recent governments (either side) as they should've been more informed than previous.

My internet structure is never going to be great, due to slight dyslexia. Thankful for edit option, and usually I can get the theme of the message across despite mistakes.

 

[WCE1987]

It's not solely the ALP or Liberal parties fault. It's not solely the state or Federal governments fault. It's also not solely the private sectors fault. It's also not caused by recent decisions by the various parties, but decisions by all parties both state, federal and the private sector over decades.

I agree, no one is solely to blame. But you can highlight recent decisions that set future direction and that was merely what I was trying to do. I could of done it without calling out the party in power at the time, but knowing the party who was in when the decision was made i think is important (whomever the party is).

 

[WCE1987]

They have nothing to do with our current energy issues.

I don't see how a current/recent governments action or in-action cannot be related to a current energy issue. Or how it cannot be important what current/recent governments have put in policy to solve the current issue.

However, ill concede maybe its different in the East. In the West a lot of our current situation is due to decisions just made it the last 10 years, like our decision not to privatise any aspect of electricity and our decision to set reserve levels of gas in 2006.

 

[nut]

Dare to dream.
But that's my point Norway is 1/7th the size of WA.
Imaging that from a funding decision stand point? Literally every project they would do like roads, power poles and water pipelines would cost substantially less. Australia just wouldn't of ever had the funds to solely invest in one area like energy and do it to scale without cutting funding to other areas needed to sustain supporting a population spread out across the land mass of Australia

You mention nothing about the cost of Norways road and rail network through hundreds of tunnels, over hundreds of bridges..thousands of Islands they service.... have you seen Norways landscape?? You have no idea. And they have funded this with 1/5 of Australia's population.
We can't even afford one tunnel here in VIC... lol.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_tunnels_in_Norway

 

[JackOutback]

You mention nothing about the cost of Norways road and rail network through hundreds of tunnels, over hundreds of bridges..thousands of Islands they service.... have you seen Norways landscape?? You have no idea. And they have funded this with 1/5 of Australia's population.
We can't even afford one tunnel here in VIC... lol.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_tunnels_in_Norway

The failure to get adequate money for the people of Australia from its mining resources is one of the greatest failures of all governments, but particularly the LNP for blocking one solely for political purposes. They sold out this country for the chance to rule. Even now, the mining industry is buying political influence, spending $5m so Brendon Grylls would lose his seat and not be able to propose an update to a tax negotiated in the 1960s. Gas exploration is supposed to be the next mining boom in this country, yet I doubt we will see much of the benefits.

 

[Hawk Dork]

You mention nothing about the cost of Norways road and rail network through hundreds of tunnels, over hundreds of bridges..thousands of Islands they service.... have you seen Norways landscape?? You have no idea. And they have funded this with 1/5 of Australia's population.
We can't even afford one tunnel here in VIC... lol.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_tunnels_in_Norway

Ice plays havoc with infrastructure too and drives up maintenance costs.

 

[Gough]

Ice plays havoc with infrastructure too and drives up maintenance costs.

Drug of choice for unemployed FIFOs too.

 

[Herne Hill Hammer]

yep

cover my arse rule mean no department or politician will do anything unless an EY or similar signs off.

The big issue for me is the governments inability to contract. A simple commercial review of "how can this contract be leveraged or cheated" should be applied to every contract. Sadly contracts are often only reviewed by lawyers and there is a big difference between a commercial lawyer and being commercial.

I don't know whether it still happens now, but one thing that used to absolutely stagger me while I was in the Navy was that certain positions were filled by officers of certain rank. These positions could be responsible for contracts in the 10s of millions of dollars with the incumbent having zero experience in contracts, the only qualification they had was that they had reached a particular rank. Yes they had experienced public servants advising them but ultimately, the responsibility fell with them.

 

[Power Raid]

I don't know whether it still happens now, but one thing that used to absolutely stagger me while I was in the Navy was that certain positions were filled by officers of certain rank. These positions could be responsible for contracts in the 10s of millions of dollars with the incumbent having zero experience in contracts, the only qualification they had was that they had reached a particular rank. Yes they had experienced public servants advising them but ultimately, the responsibility fell with them.

Being ex-puss myself, I saw similar things with one of the funniest disasters being the submarine wharf at fleet base west and crane.

It was funny at the time but seriously concerning in hindsight.

 

[Gough]

More monkey see monkey do from the government. Chappelli is apparently elitist for opposing Adani.
https://www.theguardian.com/environ...-despite-being-called-elitist-by-coalition-mp

Cricket great Ian Chappell has stood by his opposition to the Adani mine proposal as part of a group of prominent Australians branded “elitist w***ers” by a federal government MP and “a very small group of misled people” by the Indian miner.

Chappell said it was “worthwhile” if joining his brother Greg in an open letter calling on the Indian miner to abandon its coal plan thrust the issue into the public spotlight in its cricket-loving homeland.

The sooner those dickheads realise Australia is not America, and that using Trump's tactics aren't going to wash, the smaller their thrashing at the next election will be.

 

[Hawk Dork]

Large part of the blackout problem is privatisation of resources and power companies.
Governments could set price and build infrastructure from profits.
Private companies dont want to oversupply, it drives prices down and costs money to build,their job is purely to export profits.

The only way to get privatised power companies to build greener infrastructure is to have a price on carbon that punishes them for not being greener.
When that doesnt exist
SA government builds infrastructure and the federal government has to too.

No taxes in from a carbon tax to be spent on infrastructure and/or to force power companies to spend profits on infrastructure
No profits in from state owned so taxes out to build infrastructure
No incentive to spend on infrastructure so more profits exported from a privatised electricity market

Tax payer gets screwed 3x

 

[Herne Hill Hammer]

Being ex-puss myself, I saw similar things with one of the funniest disasters being the submarine wharf at fleet base west and crane.

It was funny at the time but seriously concerning in hindsight.

If my memory serves me correct, Australia built a fleet of mine hunters in the 80s and realised too late that the hulls were unsuitable for the sonar in confined waters rendering them useless. They were replaced with the Huon Class. The wastage was in the 100s of millions of dollars.

 

[Bradesmaen]

"The Gillard government was relaxed, boastful even. It ruled out introducing a gas reservation policy along the lines of the one in Western Australia that stipulates that a certain percentage of local gas has to be retained for local consumption."
http://www.smh.com.au/comment/how-the-big-three-robbed-us-of-our-own-gas-20170315-guydtp.html

Because in the 4 years since the Labor government was booted from power, the Liberals have done what? And in all the other states... the Liberals have done what? (besides SA where they can't get elected because they ****ed us so hard that no one wants them back)