List Cull pre draft

[Purple_Voice]

You point about the 2013 season is speculative nonsense. The facts are Sandi was injured for a large part of the 2013 season. Zac as a 23 year old stood up and became our no1 Ruckman and did a great job and he didn't go missing. Again proving my point that he is a good Ruckman.

To be fair to Griff, he played half of the time Sandi was injured during which he was our #1 ruckman (until he did his knee); Clarke did not start the season until round 8.
But your point stands for the balance of that time

 

[Moist Biscuit]

I can't wait to look back at this thread in 3-5 years when Clarke is an AA ruckman and being stoked that we didn't get rid of him.

 

[clivenator26]

If I was to be brutal.... De Boer and Suban. Not because they are spuds, more because moving forward I just don't see them being more than depth. Crowley and McPharlin are both 30+, while both would be in the 22 next year a case could be made for retiring both.
Heck I reckon i could even make a case for Clarke to be number 1 ruck and retiring Sandi as well.

WHAT!

 

[Halfbaked]

Sandi could theoretically go on for another five years. He's never been an agile or pacy player, he's been a 7ft player who rarely loses taps and has a good tank to get up and down the ground. His endurance isn't likely to fade, it's not that, that normally causes players to retire. It's that loss of speed and agility. That and/or injuries. Whether or not he chooses or the club chooses to move him on in a year or two is another thing. But I wouldn't be surprised if he's still rucking in 2018/2019.

Let's hope so! I can not believe because we had a bad run with injuries people are calling for anyone over 28 to be dropped. We are a top Four team or better, fourteen other teams would have killed to be in the top four. Yes I know we went out in straight sets, but 1/4 of our team was either injured or playing with problems.
Before anyone thinks this simplistic - football is simple - win more games than any other teams. To do that you need great players. ( even older ones ).

 

[BusinessMan]

I can't wait to look back at this thread in 3-5 years when Clarke is an AA ruckman and being stoked that we didn't get rid of him.

If we have to wait 5 years for Clarke to produce the goods, the selection would have been a failure. The bloke all most single handedly lost us the 2012 Semi Final and contributed to our GF loss last year, for him to be a success he needs to start playing well within the next year or two. He's definitely capable of becoming elite but how long do we have to wait for?

 

[beetz]

At least we can take solace in the fact that Freo doesn't reward mediocrity and dish out a 5 year/$4m deal to our "new age, athletic ruck man" like the turkeys down the road. .

 

[sherrif]

Has Vandeleur been retained. I would be surprised if they kept him, but delisted Wood.

 

[Unique Name]

WHAT!

I said IF I was being brutal.

If we have to wait 5 years for Clarke to produce the goods, the selection would have been a failure. The bloke all most single handedly lost us the 2012 Semi Final and contributed to our GF loss last year, for him to be a success he needs to start playing well within the next year or two. He's definitely capable of becoming elite but how long do we have to wait for?

Agreed, however the second coming of Jesus will happen before Clarke becomes a good forward, he is a liability in our forward line. But he already is a good ruckman now. He gets the no1 spot and he will excel even further.

 

[Unique Name]

Let's hope so! I can not believe because we had a bad run with injuries people are calling for anyone over 28 to be dropped. We are a top Four team or better, fourteen other teams would have killed to be in the top four. Yes I know we went out in straight sets, but 1/4 of our team was either injured or playing with problems.
Before anyone thinks this simplistic - football is simple - win more games than any other teams. To do that you need great players. ( even older ones ).

Just a question, if Macca says he is good to keep going and goes for another year or two would you be happy for Pav, Sandi, Macca, all to retired in the same year. What if they were able to push it to the season when Johnson, Duff and Crowley are all ready to retire. Would you be happy for 6 of our best 22 to retire at the same time all in the pursuit of a flag right now.

We all see things differently I suppose. I don't think flag hunting is a sustainable practice and would lead to us dropping to the bottom end of the ladder. Successful clubs like Geelong realise you have to move on some players before they are 'past' it.

 

[clogged]

Sandilands would be the last player over 30 that I would forcibly retire. I would even retire Pavlich before him.

 

[Halfbaked]

Just a question, if Macca says he is good to keep going and goes for another year or two would you be happy for Pav, Sandi, Macca, all to retired in the same year. What if they were able to push it to the season when Johnson, Duff and Crowley are all ready to retire. Would you be happy for 6 of our best 22 to retire at the same time all in the pursuit of a flag right now.

We all see things differently I suppose. I don't think flag hunting is a sustainable practice and would lead to us dropping to the bottom end of the ladder. Successful clubs like Geelong realise you have to move on some players before they are 'past' it.

I really do understand your point, but getting rid of any A grade player because they maybe holding back a younger is only something you do to an average team. Trying to win the GF is the point of the whole comp. if the young player is good enough he gets a game.
I do believe maybe time is up for Macca. Both Duff and Crowley could be passed this year.
As for Geelong maybe if Chapman was playing they may have won the GF, we will never know.
I think recruiting chapman and maybe Goddard is hunting for a flag, but I do not believe playing A grade players still playing well is a problem.

 

[Paracleet]

Sandilands would be the last player over 30 that I would forcibly retire. I would even retire Pavlich before him.

Agreed. His game is the least dependant on agility and that is what you start to lose around the 29 to 32 mark. (and speed depending on how many soft tissue injuries you have had).
A sixty-five year old can run a marathon but they ain't beating anyone in a shuttle run.

 

[clogged]

Agreed. His game is the least dependant on agility and that is what you start to lose around the 29 to 32 mark. (and speed depending on how many soft tissue injuries you have had).
A sixty-five year old can run a marathon but they ain't beating anyone in a shuttle run.

He's also one of the few players who wins his position nearly every week and, injury permitting, likely to keep winning it in future seasons. As long he is he is playing football he will be the best at his position in the league.

I also believe he showed signs of improvement this year - some of his tap work was sublime and his dropping back to take a contested mark in the defensive 50 saved the team a bunch of times.

The same can't be said for Pavlich, Crowley, McPharlin etc. It is unlikely any of them will improve next year and I doubt any of them will be near the best in the league for their position.

 

[Halfbaked]

He's also one of the few players who wins his position nearly every week and, injury permitting, likely to keep winning it in future seasons. As long he is he is playing football he will be the best at his position in the league.

I also believe he showed signs of improvement this year - some of his tap work was sublime and his dropping back to take a contested mark in the defensive 50 saved the team a bunch of times.

The same can't be said for Pavlich, Crowley, McPharlin etc. It is unlikely any of them will improve next year and I doubt any of them will be near the best in the league for their position.

If Taberner can improve watch how many goals Pav will kick with some help, even as a 33 year old.

 

[Wigarus]

If Taberner can improve watch how many goals Pav will kick with some help, even as a 33 year old.

Taberner seemed to play his best games roaming further up the ground and until he starts kicking more than Pav, Pav will still get the best defender.

Pav is our champ and I'm rapt that he's going around again but the fact is that he went goalless in more than a quarter of his games this year. I would love it but I'd be amazed if he improved on this year next year.

 

[beetz]

Taberner seemed to play his best games roaming further up the ground and until he starts kicking more than Pav, Pav will still get the best defender.

Pav is our champ and I'm rapt that he's going around again but the fact is that he went goalless in more than a quarter of his games this year. I would love it but I'd be amazed if he improved on this year next year.

Yep this, like in the Brissy game. Just needs to improve his tank a bit over pre-season at 197cm he'll take a tall defender but who gets him can't run with him.

 

[Halfbaked]

Taberner seemed to play his best games roaming further up the ground and until he starts kicking more than Pav, Pav will still get the best defender.

Pav is our champ and I'm rapt that he's going around again but the fact is that he went goalless in more than a quarter of his games this year. I would love it but I'd be amazed if he improved on this year next year.

I was not so much talking about Tab kicking heaps of goals. If gets a lot of ball leading high then teams have to put a good defender on him taking a little pressure off pav in two different ways. Firstly one less quality player to double team pav and one less player clogging up the forward line deep.

 

[Halfbaked]

Taberner seemed to play his best games roaming further up the ground and until he starts kicking more than Pav, Pav will still get the best defender.

Pav is our champ and I'm rapt that he's going around again but the fact is that he went goalless in more than a quarter of his games this year. I would love it but I'd be amazed if he improved on this year next year.

I was not so much talking about Tab kicking heaps of goals. If gets a lot of ball leading high then teams have to put a good defender on him taking a little pressure off pav in two different ways. Firstly one less quality player to double team pav and one less player clogging up the forward line deep.

 

[Miltz]

Are there any 24yo or younger rucks out there who are at Zacs level? I can't think of any.

You have your Grundys, Gorringe, Lycett, etc

 

[Miltz]

He's also one of the few players who wins his position nearly every week and, injury permitting, likely to keep winning it in future seasons. As long he is he is playing football he will be the best at his position in the league.

I also believe he showed signs of improvement this year - some of his tap work was sublime and his dropping back to take a contested mark in the defensive 50 saved the team a bunch of times.

The same can't be said for Pavlich, Crowley, McPharlin etc. It is unlikely any of them will improve next year and I doubt any of them will be near the best in the league for their position.

Maybe Pav can stack on another 5-7kgs over the offseason and be a rock of Gibraltar at FF.

 

[beetz]

Are there any 24yo or younger rucks out there who are at Zacs level? I can't think of any.

You have your Grundys, Gorringe, Lycett, etc

Yeah, they're all playing amateur footy though

 

[Wigarus]

I was not so much talking about Tab kicking heaps of goals. If gets a lot of ball leading high then teams have to put a good defender on him taking a little pressure off pav in two different ways. Firstly one less quality player to double team pav and one less player clogging up the forward line deep.

Taberner playing better is not going to change our gameplan tough.

Personally, I think the whole "Pav being double teamed" is a myth (or an excuse, whichever way you like it) spread by Freo fans. He isn't kicking as many goals because he is being beaten 1v1 or 1v2 more often than he used to be. Also our gameplan creates congestion in the forwardline and Pavlich has never been a Cloke / Tippet / Hawkins contested mark.

 

[PapaJ]

He's also one of the few players who wins his position nearly every week and, injury permitting, likely to keep winning it in future seasons. As long he is he is playing football he will be the best at his position in the league.

I also believe he showed signs of improvement this year - some of his tap work was sublime and his dropping back to take a contested mark in the defensive 50 saved the team a bunch of times.

The same can't be said for Pavlich, Crowley, McPharlin etc. It is unlikely any of them will improve next year and I doubt any of them will be near the best in the league for their position.

Yeah, absolutely. Sandi is not one to be moving on just yet, he is our most vital player I reckon, along with Fyfe of course.

I disagree with Crowley though in that example - I reckon he's got another year maybe two in him at the same level/in his unique role.

A lot of the Clarke opinion is based on a pretty poor finish to the year (and a poor GF last year too I suppose), but need to remember that when he got his mojo going mid year he was pretty good in the genuine 2nd ruck/fwd role. Not stellar, but certainly holding his own. I think we need to see what an uninterrupted (hopefully) pre-season and just that bit more maturity brings before we start making too many calls either way on him.

I know his best role is 1st ruck, I wouldn't argue about that, but if he can give us the sort of form he showed mid-year, then him and Sandi become a powerful weapon, dominating in fact. So much so that it is that sort of punch that is getting Port so keen on Ryder types.

 

[Halfbaked]

Taberner playing better is not going to change our gameplan tough.

Personally, I think the whole "Pav being double teamed" is a myth (or an excuse, whichever way you like it) spread by Freo fans. He isn't kicking as many goals because he is being beaten 1v1 or 1v2 more often than he used to be. Also our gameplan creates congestion in the forwardline and Pavlich has never been a Cloke / Tippet / Hawkins contested mark.

One the things I do like about this site is that everyone has a view and most of us are just Monday experts. So I understand your view about Pav but believe you so very wrong. Why Pav would need any excuses is beyond my limited understanding, he is an afl great 300 games, 600 goals.
If you meant by game plan being high running high pressure you are spot on, however when Taberner started to get a bit of the ball our forward line set up differently.

 

[Admiral Byng]

I can't wait to look back at this thread in 3-5 years when Clarke is an AA ruckman and being stoked that we didn't get rid of him.

I think at his age he needs to start doing it within the next 1-2 years.