Recruiting List Development 2017 - How do we develop our list?

[TheGrizz]

They're basically the only ones, although I think Fasolo/Elliott could be just as good if they had a couple of half decent talls and I think the Smith/Greene combo at GWS is pretty damn good too.

Rioli/ Breust goes alright as well

 

[Harlequin Dream]

Ultimately, every club should aim to do what Geelong and Hawthorn did from 1999 to 2005 and build a group of core players that end up playing together for years and hit their prime at the same time. This leads to a team that is a premiership threat for close to a decade. I think our group of players who are 23 and under are close to that, I hope the club sees that and builds on the group instead of trying to add a slightly older player who will hit his prime before the group and will have more limited time to build chemistry.

When looking at the 2020 team I am confident in our tall and small players. However, I think the development of our mid-sized players will determine our future team.

Talls:
Hurley
Daniher
Hooker
Ambrose
Hartley
Stewart

tick, tick, tick.

Smalls:
Walla
Colyer
Fantasia
Green
McGrath
Zaharakis
Merrett
Parish

Most have shown plenty of consistent form at senior level.

Medium sized:

Heppell
Myers
Dea
Gleeson
McKenna
Laverde
Langford
Francis
Redman
Mutch
Begley
Ridley
Clarke

Very talented group, but apart from Heppell few have been able to convert their ability into consistent AFL performances yet. If this group turns out how we hope we could be a clear top 4 team, if it doesn't we might be mid-table for a while.

 

[Killer_Mike]

Ultimately, every club should aim to do what Geelong and Hawthorn did from 1999 to 2005 and build a group of core players that end up playing together for years and hit their prime at the same time. This leads to a team that is a premiership threat for close to a decade. I think our group of players who are 23 and under are close to that, I hope the club sees that and builds on the group instead of trying to add a slightly older player who will hit his prime before the group and will have more limited time to build chemistry.

When looking at the 2020 team I am confident in our tall and small players. However, I think the development of our mid-sized players will determine our future team.

Talls:
Hurley
Daniher
Hooker
Ambrose
Hartley
Stewart

tick, tick, tick.

Smalls:
Walla
Colyer
Fantasia
Green
McGrath
Zaharakis
Merrett
Parish

Most have shown plenty of consistent form at senior level.

Medium sized:

Heppell
Myers
Dea
Gleeson
McKenna
Laverde
Langford
Francis
Redman
Mutch
Begley
Ridley
Clarke

Very talented group, but apart from Heppell few have been able to convert their ability into consistent AFL performances yet. If this group turns out how we hope we could be a clear top 4 team, if it doesn't we might be mid-table for a while.

I think you are spot on about introducing mature players and in particular for me ones that come with a high price tag(trade or salary).

Keep hitting the draft and potentially get some good value youngsters from other clubs and we should be in the mix.

I personally think this list has far more upside than downside so I'm confident we can hit top four in the next two years and make a run at flags!

 

[blitzer]

I reckon our number 1 need by a mile is that contested midfield bull with pace. A Dustin Martin 'type' would be ideal. I'd be willing to even use our first two draft picks on that type or trade either of them for a suitable player to address that need.

The other positions that we are kind of weak in like developing key forward, developing rucks, maybe a talented HBF (we have plenty of average ones) are needs but we could also persevere with what we've got and it might be good enough. Whereas I think there's little chance the players we've already got will be a strong enough inside midfield contingent to win a flag.

 

[eDPS]

I reckon our number 1 need by a mile is that contested midfield bull with pace. A Dustin Martin 'type' would be ideal. I'd be willing to even use our first two draft picks on that type or trade either of them for a suitable player to address that need.

The other positions that we are kind of weak in like developing key forward, developing rucks, maybe a talented HBF (we have plenty of average ones) are needs but we could also persevere with what we've got and it might be good enough. Whereas I think there's little chance the players we've already got will be a strong enough inside midfield contingent to win a flag.

A few players in this years draft fit that description and are ready made players who could play as early as next year Luke Davies-Uniacke, Adam Cerra and James Worpel. Would honestly prefer going to the draft instead of paying mega money. The mids this year run deeper than last year but the quality pacey inside mids should be available in our range

 

[bombreys]

I think you are spot on about introducing mature players and in particular for me ones that come with a high price tag(trade or salary).

Keep hitting the draft and potentially get some good value youngsters from other clubs and we should be in the mix.

I personally think this list has far more upside than downside so I'm confident we can hit top four in the next two years and make a run at flags!

It's a nice thought (building/growing from within the list), but list management has evolved in recent times. If we want to compete for flags, we absolutely need to be players in the trade/free agency market.

Reference: Premiership winners of the past 5+ years.

 

[Killer_Mike]

I reckon our number 1 need by a mile is that contested midfield bull with pace. A Dustin Martin 'type' would be ideal. I'd be willing to even use our first two draft picks on that type or trade either of them for a suitable player to address that need.

The other positions that we are kind of weak in like developing key forward, developing rucks, maybe a talented HBF (we have plenty of average ones) are needs but we could also persevere with what we've got and it might be good enough. Whereas I think there's little chance the players we've already got will be a strong enough inside midfield contingent to win a flag.

You do realize that the majority of the mids we have on our list are not the finished article yet?

Lots of room for development!

 

[Killer_Mike]

It's a nice thought (building/growing from within the list), but list management has evolved in recent times. If we want to compete for flags, we absolutely need to be players in the trade/free agency market.

Reference: Premiership winners of the past 5+ years.

I agree!

I don't think we are at that point yet though where we should be getting in these big names.

 

[Harlequin Dream]

I think you are spot on about introducing mature players and in particular for me ones that come with a high price tag(trade or salary).

Keep hitting the draft and potentially get some good value youngsters from other clubs and we should be in the mix.

I personally think this list has far more upside than downside so I'm confident we can hit top four in the next two years and make a run at flags!

I think it has heaps of upside, I just think we will have to weather the Goddard, Watson and Kelly reitrements over the next 2 years. While at the same time getting games into Laverde, Langford, Francis, McKenna, Ridley, Begley and Mutch. 2018 might be treading water a little, while 19 and 20 will be the true window.

 

[Killer_Mike]

I think it has heaps of upside, I just think we will have to weather the Goddard, Watson and Kelly reitrements over the next 2 years. While at the same time getting games into Laverde, Langford, Francis, McKenna, Ridley, Begley and Mutch. 2018 might be treading water a little, while 19 and 20 will be the true window.

Yep.

No need to rush like many teams have done in the past.

if we get excited and overvalue our current list it can turn pear shaped very fast.

I'm happy for these kids to continue to grow and then throw in a couple of big names when we are a destination club again. They generally take a pay cut then as well if they are confident of getting team success!

I'm extremely confident we are on the right track!

 

[blitzer]

You do realize that the majority of the mids we have on our list are not the finished article yet?

Lots of room for development!

Certainly that's true. I have high hopes for them. Certainly I think Parish and McGrath in particular will become very good midfielders. Langford and Laverde are ? marks for mine as midfielders. They could make it, they might not. I think they will still be decent forwards though. Zac Merrett and Heppell are guns. Zaharakis is a good experienced mid. Its too early to judge the rest of last years class but Mutch and Begley have shown some good signs and Begley could perhaps be an answer for us.

The truth is though you can't have too many good midfielders especially if they are versatile. You only have to look at the Bulldogs to see that. You need a deep and talented ball winning brigade to win flags. Pretty much any statistical measure has our defense and forward line working far better than our midfield right now - that's before we lose Watson and Goddard from the clearances.

I look at our spine and I'm pretty content - we have quality players with good AFL experience in every role. Our smalls seem really talented (fwd and mid in particular) and I don't think they will be an issue for us. We need to find the guys that will replace the roles that Goddard, Watson and Myers will play throughout year as those bigger bodied midfielders. They won't be around for that long given the age of Goddard and Watson and the injury history of Myers.

 

[Killer_Mike]

Certainly that's true. I have high hopes for them. Certainly I think Parish and McGrath in particular will become very good midfielders. Langford and Laverde are ? marks for mine as midfielders. They could make it, they might not. I think they will still be decent forwards though. Zac Merrett and Heppell are guns. Zaharakis is a good experienced mid. Its too early to judge the rest of last years class but Mutch and Begley have shown some good signs and Begley could perhaps be an answer for us.

The truth is though you can't have too many good midfielders especially if they are versatile. You only have to look at the Bulldogs to see that. You need a deep and talented ball winning brigade to win flags. Pretty much any statistical measure has our defense and forward line working far better than our midfield right now - that's before we lose Watson and Goddard from the clearances.

I look at our spine and I'm pretty content - we have quality players with good AFL experience in every role. Our smalls seem really talented (fwd and mid in particular) and I don't think they will be an issue for us. We need to find the guys that will replace the roles that Goddard, Watson and Myers will play throughout year as those bigger bodied midfielders. They won't be around for that long given the age of Goddard and Watson and the injury history of Myers.

I'm not disputing we need mids, I'm disputing your assessment of needing a "Martin" type.

They don't come cheap.

 

[TheFrenchCut]

I'm not disputing we need mids, I'm disputing your assessment of needing a "Martin" type.

They don't come cheap.

It's a long bow to draw, but Begley does have a few characteristics in common with Martin. Whether he can improve enough to become a 3/4-mid and 1/4- forward or similar is hard to project given he's playing almost exclusively as a forward at vfl level, but he's a good prospect to have.

 

[Killer_Mike]

It's a long bow to draw, but Begley does have a few characteristics in common with Martin. Whether he can improve enough to become a 3/4-mid and 1/4- forward or similar is hard to project given he's playing almost exclusively as a forward at vfl level, but he's a good prospect to have.

I think Begley has potential to be a very good player. Personally I'm a fan of sharing the load I don't like the idea of getting in Martin or Fyfe and particularly at this stage of development.

We have some good young talent on our list and I would prefer we go to the draft for the next two years. If a good young player was available for a second rounder then that's good business but for me first round should be off the table.

 

[eth-dog]

I'm not disputing we need mids, I'm disputing your assessment of needing a "Martin" type.

They don't come cheap.

They don't, but a dynamic inside mid is exactly what we need. Personally I hope Laverde can be that player if he gets over his injuries (touch wood). In 2020 I hope our midfield rotations have these players in there:

McGrath, Parish, Merrett, Zaharakis, Fantasia, Heppell, Myers, Langford, Laverde, Walla, McKenna. Then potentially players like Long, Begley, Mutch, Redman, Billings, Setterfield (the latter two if we can entice them to come down)

 

[Killer_Mike]

They don't, but a dynamic inside mid is exactly what we need. Personally I hope Laverde can be that player if he gets over his injuries (touch wood). In 2020 I hope our midfield rotations have these players in there:

McGrath, Parish, Merrett, Zaharakis, Fantasia, Heppell, Myers, Langford, Laverde, Walla, McKenna. Then potentially players like Long, Begley, Mutch, Redman, Billings, Setterfield (the latter two if we can entice them to come down)

We certainly need a dynamic midfielder. Hopefully they are on the list already.

The reservations I have with including a Martin or Fyfe is what it can do to the development of the players around them.

personally I believe it can have benefits if you have a mature midfield already but ours are young and developing. Carlton had the issue when they got Judd that they just relied on him to do the work to much.

Geelong I feel are having similar problems with Dangerfield.

We have started to accumulate some really talented kids and I feel if we add a few more our depth starts to look really good. That's when we go out and shop for the superstar midfielder to complete our list. As I said in a previous post, you can also have the luxury of negotiating a better salary deal because you would hope they are coming to play in a successful side.

 

[eDPS]

We certainly need a dynamic midfielder. Hopefully they are on the list already.

The reservations I have with including a Martin or Fyfe is what it can do to the development of the players around them.

personally I believe it can have benefits if you have a mature midfield already but ours are young and developing. Carlton had the issue when they got Judd that they just relied on him to do the work to much.

Geelong I feel are having similar problems with Dangerfield.

We have started to accumulate some really talented kids and I feel if we add a few more our depth starts to look really good. That's when we go out and shop for the superstar midfielder to complete our list. As I said in a previous post, you can also have the luxury of negotiating a better salary deal because you would hope they are coming to play in a successful side.

Judd
Beams
Treloar
Dangerfield
Thomas

These are the more recent midfielders who where either highly payed to get to the other club or cost the club high picks. Common theme? Neither team they went to ended up playing in a Grand final the next year and Dangerfield might be the only chance of ever being in a premiership side. Most clubs who have won premierships have done so with good drafting with midfielders and its talls that are traded in when they are mature that have the most impact. Makes sense not to spend so much money on guys like fyfe and Martin when its proven in recent history that brining in star mids on big salaries doesn't make you a contender straight away.

 

[Killer_Mike]

Judd
Beams
Treloar
Dangerfield
Thomas

These are the more recent midfielders who where either highly payed to get to the other club or cost the club high picks. Common theme? Neither team they went to ended up playing in a Grand final the next year and Dangerfield might be the only chance of ever being in a premiership side. Most clubs who have won premierships have done so with good drafting with midfielders and its talls that are traded in when they are mature that have the most impact. Makes sense not to spend so much money on guys like fyfe and Martin when its proven in recent history that brining in star mids on big salaries doesn't make you a contender straight away.

I agree.

It can really effect the development of other players and also can change the style of football you play.

Hawks and to a lesser extent Geelong (circa 2002 onwards) did it well with bringing very good role players. They didn't chase big names.

My thoughts are that Geelong have added Dangerfield now so that they can maintain membership and sponsorship whilst building the stands at shell stadium. They couldn't afford to bottom out or it may effect their bottom line.

Sydney have done something similar with Franklin and others in the past.

Just a theory though.

 

[Ambrosia]

They don't, but a dynamic inside mid is exactly what we need. Personally I hope Laverde can be that player if he gets over his injuries (touch wood). In 2020 I hope our midfield rotations have these players in there:

Genuine dynamic players are extremely rare and are a luxuary not a necessity.

 

[Yoda_]

A few players in this years draft fit that description and are ready made players who could play as early as next year Luke Davies-Uniacke, Adam Cerra and James Worpel. Would honestly prefer going to the draft instead of paying mega money. The mids this year run deeper than last year but the quality pacey inside mids should be available in our range

Whats young Cassidy's pace like Cal? What sort of player is he projecting to be like?

 

[eDPS]

Whats young Cassidy's pace like Cal? What sort of player is he projecting to be like?

His speed isn't great haha it's slightly above average atm he is a taller Dylan Clarke

 

[Towno78]

Judd
Beams
Treloar
Dangerfield
Thomas

These are the more recent midfielders who where either highly payed to get to the other club or cost the club high picks. Common theme? Neither team they went to ended up playing in a Grand final the next year and Dangerfield might be the only chance of ever being in a premiership side. Most clubs who have won premierships have done so with good drafting with midfielders and its talls that are traded in when they are mature that have the most impact. Makes sense not to spend so much money on guys like fyfe and Martin when its proven in recent history that brining in star mids on big salaries doesn't make you a contender straight away.

You accidentally forgot Burgoyne

 

[Yoda_]

His speed isn't great haha it's slightly above average atm he is a taller Dylan Clarke

Give me an estbliahed player? Someone whos been around the traps a bit

 

[eDPS]

Give me an estbliahed player? Someone whos been around the traps a bit

Priddis? I guess would be closest

 

[foj1]

A few players in this years draft fit that description and are ready made players who could play as early as next year Luke Davies-Uniacke, Adam Cerra and James Worpel. Would honestly prefer going to the draft instead of paying mega money. The mids this year run deeper than last year but the quality pacey inside mids should be available in our range

Great post
I reckon worpel is the only bloke who will definitely be available at our pick
I would take a few players in front of worps in the first round