List Mgmt. List management for 2016

[Established1870]

Have you seen him play?
wouldnt touch him at all!
turning circle of a cruise liner, terrible kicking action and a massive sook

I have seen him play and I've got to say that he actually has talent and on his day can kick 4 to 6 in a canter. Only problem is that he's soft as cooked pasta and doesn't always like to try.

Btw, does that situation sound familiar?

 

[ClickBOOM1870]

Have you seen him play?
wouldnt touch him at all!
turning circle of a cruise liner, terrible kicking action and a massive sook

Ok so what a better option in your opinion?

 

[TheBeardAmigos]

Ok so what a better option in your opinion?

Nathan Vardy, James Stewart, Tim O'Brien, Aaron Black, Majak Daw

 

[FallingLiefs]

if you want Vickery because he'd be an improvement to our forward stocks and overall effectiveness, you got no idea.
if you want Vickery because he would cost nothing but cap space and he's the best we could get for a stop-gap situation between Schulz retiring and Howard/others injured/not being ready then i'm with you.

i don't want Vickery, but there may be a point in this off-season where we simply need to get a semi-capable forward for not much in the way of picks, then he'd be a shoe in.

 

[Hong-Kong Phooey]

Can't argue with most of that.

I know I bang on about it but I truly believe that if we want to be a serious threat in 2017 then our forward structure absolutely needs to be bolstered by a second big KPF (200cm/100kg), preferably one that can support Ryder in the ruck.

I love Ryder as a forward. I know he is a great ruck, but i think good ruckmen are easier to uncover than a good forward. example is players like jacobs, mumford etc that have left clubs for peanuts. But good forwards are much harder to find. Ryder is an awesome forward too, so need to use it.

 

[Coobk001]

I am so flat about our list.

We pretty much backed ourselves into a corner and we commited alot to this playing group.

Yep.

I dont think the list is too bad. It is a list that can win games, make finals and even possibly top 4, however I'm just not confident that we can win a premiership with the list.

All this talk of 'large turnover' at the end of the year is a crock. We can't and wont make wholesale changes. We invested heavily in this list believing it was good so we can't just back out of that and replace developing talent or established depth for picks 80+ in the draft. That'd be pointless.

 

[PeacefulWarrior]

Why not? He'd be a decent plug in a fairly sized hole while not costing too much.

Because he's a massive w***er for starters

 

[Coobk001]

if you want Vickery because he'd be an improvement to our forward stocks and overall effectiveness, you got no idea.
if you want Vickery because he would cost nothing but cap space and he's the best we could get for a stop-gap situation between Schulz retiring and Howard/others injured/not being ready then i'm with you.

i don't want Vickery, but there may be a point in this off-season where we simply need to get a semi-capable forward for not much in the way of picks, then he'd be a shoe in.

2nd reason is surely why people would want him, but the issue with that is that luring a FA will cost money and that's an area of obvious concern for us. So Vickery IMO is a pipe dream. He aint wanting to come cheap to another club.

 

[agmsy]

Vickery is exactly who I have in mind.

I don't see it. Apart from anything else, our coaches steadfastly refuse to play two genuine talls in our forward line, so Vickery would be staring down the barrel of extensive SANFL time - not attractive to him as a player.

Even if we did play him as a second tall forward, he'd disappoint. He consistently underwhelms at Richmond, where he plays alongside a better KPF than we have (Riewoldt is clearly better than Dixon) and with more talls in support.

I'd rather keep Butcher than waste money bringing Vickery across.

 

[FallingLiefs]

2nd reason is surely why people would want him, but the issue with that is that luring a FA will cost money and that's an area of obvious concern for us. So Vickery IMO is a pipe dream. He aint wanting to come cheap to another club.

what is his expected price being flipped around at the moment? i think we should have money next year. Monfries and Ryder are erased so we should have at least the 5% carryover next year (or about 600k).

surely Vickery is only going to be a bit above average wage of 300k for 3 years. 550/250/250 (350 p/y) should easily be able to fit in the cap? nothing's ideal but i'd rather be in cap trouble than spending picks on say a Majak Daw.

he's being consistently dropped from richmond who don't really have a replacement i would have thought while big guys hold value his value is still just slightly above average wage.

 

[ClickBOOM1870]

if you want Vickery because he'd be an improvement to our forward stocks and overall effectiveness, you got no idea.
if you want Vickery because he would cost nothing but cap space and he's the best we could get for a stop-gap situation between Schulz retiring and Howard/others injured/not being ready then i'm with you.

i don't want Vickery, but there may be a point in this off-season where we simply need to get a semi-capable forward for not much in the way of picks, then he'd be a shoe in.

The latter. I want large key forward who can take the pressure off of Dixon but also pinch hit in the ruck when required.

He can't be contracted because we have shit all to bargain with and can't be too expensive as he needs to fit into our cap space.

 

[vozzon]

Unfortunately due to our players form it really isn't worth trading out anyone as there form is down thus it will be worth us keeping them.

Ideally our 2 biggest needs would be a 2nd forward (gunston/membrey type or someone who can pinch hit ruck) to replace Schulz and another tough midfielder. Apart from that will a full list we look decent. Have good tall Defenders in Hombsche, Jonas, Trengrove, Clurrey and Austin). Have an abundance of small def's and flankers. Lobbe and Ryder will provide more that good enough ruck coverage with Ryder providing another target. Mids and Fwds are ok.

Looking at our needs its clear from our recruiting of Butcher, Andrew Moore and Ben Jacobs were the picks we used which failed and left some holes on the list. If we nailed 1-2 of those picks those draft years our list looks alot better. Still not sure why Jacobs wasnt playing as he has looked good every since he left us.

Would love to trade out next years 1st round pick to GWS and get steele, tomlinson or a barrett whos sitting in the reserves (get a 2nd rounder from this year draft back) as i know they would need picks next year for academy players. Mids we would look at are Clay Smith from the bulldogs. Apart from that i dont know of any 2nd forwards that we try to look at (herd whispers we were looking at Majak Daw, not sure about him though). Personally think we need to go hard for some GWS talent as its the only opportunity to get players in who can compete straight away and also be there when Wingard and Wines hit there peak.

So to sum up, if we can get a 2nd forward and also good solid mid who can play straight away that's what we would need most.

If Jack Riewolt is available (after watching footy classified) I would live to loot at that option.

 

[badbeats]

Because Vickery is essentially Lobbe who takes 1 more mark a game and kicks 1 goal (and that's based on career stats)

Rather Dougal Howard but he wont be 100% till 2018 now.

Any of these would be a better option. Aaron Black wants out of Norf.

Nathan Vardy, James Stewart, Tim O'Brien, Aaron Black, Majak Daw

 

[Winganeen]

As a side note on the list management, has there been a debut player this year that hasn't performed?

DBJ - Outstanding
Logan Austin - Very promising down back, held his own against all bar Pav
Dougal Howard - Gets an award for taking our only lead up mark inside the 50 in 2016, and he kicked the goal. Shame we won't see him for a while, but very promising.

Makes you wonder what else is lurking in the pool

Just adding Jesse Palmer to the list of debutants that have come in and performed from the outset.

 

[Established1870]

if you want Vickery because he'd be an improvement to our forward stocks and overall effectiveness, you got no idea.
if you want Vickery because he would cost nothing but cap space and he's the best we could get for a stop-gap situation between Schulz retiring and Howard/others injured/not being ready then i'm with you.

i don't want Vickery, but there may be a point in this off-season where we simply need to get a semi-capable forward for not much in the way of picks, then he'd be a shoe in.

This will get me a lot of scorn but I want him for 1 more than 2. He would be an improvement on what we have and would give Dix a lot more freedom than what he gets now in games. People really need to remember that what people say about Vickery is what people said about Schulzy.

And yes I know Ty is one giant campaigner but find me a viable alternative to him.

 

[ClickBOOM1870]

I don't see it. Apart from anything else, our coaches steadfastly refuse to play two genuine talls in our forward line, so Vickery would be staring down the barrel of extensive SANFL time - not attractive to him as a player.

I think you'll find that has been forced through a combination of injury and lack of faith in Butcher.

If we had another capable 200cm/100kg forward in the stable he would probably have 15 AFL games under his belt by now.

And with Howard out, Schultz's body being unreliable and Dixon getting gangbanged week in week out we need another big bodied KPF option at the club.

 

[Established1870]

Nathan Vardy, James Stewart, Tim O'Brien, Aaron Black, Majak Daw

Vardy can barely get on the park.
We need someone proven so no to Stewart.
With Ceglar done don't expect Hawthorn to give him up.
Aaron Black maybe.
I'll give you Majak. That guy can be a freak if given a go and out of contract.

 

[Schulzenfest]

If we had a second 200cm/100kg KPF who can also be a ruck option in a pinch then we wouldn't have to rely on Trengove if Ryder went down.

It also means we wouldn't be completly screwed if Dixon went down.

Remember that time we nearly signed up Mason Cox on a Cat B contract? Wouldn't have even costed us so much as a rookie list spot. Sigh.

 

[TheBeardAmigos]

Vardy can barely get on the park.
We need someone proven so no to Stewart.
With Ceglar done don't expect Hawthorn to give him up.
Aaron Black maybe.
I'll give you Majak. That guy can be a freak if given a go and out of contract.

a change of environment for Vardy will be good
none of them are proven, but Stewart is a good player (kicked 8 goals in the NEAFL on the weekend, kicked 44.21 in 16 games)
O'Brien is a different player to Ceglar. O'Brien doesnt ruck. if they can get Schoenmakers on the park, which they will next year, could be a slight chance of getting him.
Black wants out of North and will literally go anywhere. has kicked 19 goals in 9 games in the VFL this year. but people are forgetting his 2013 year, where he kicked 33 goals in 18 goal.
Majak Daw i would take in a heartbeat. Is the most athletic out of this lot and doesnt need a lot of the ball to make an impact. Can play ruck also and is very able to carry the ruckload throughout a game.

all better options than Vickery, albeit with more risk.

 

[Chrizzt]

Remember that time we nearly signed up Mason Cox on a Cat B contract? Wouldn't have even costed us so much as a rookie list spot. Sigh.

To be fair, he chose Collingwood over us so there's not much more we could have done on that one.

 

[Established1870]

a change of environment for Vardy will be good
none of them are proven, but Stewart is a good player (kicked 8 goals in the NEAFL on the weekend, kicked 44.21 in 16 games)
O'Brien is a different player to Ceglar. O'Brien doesnt ruck. if they can get Schoenmakers on the park, which they will next year, could be a slight chance of getting him.
Black wants out of North and will literally go anywhere. has kicked 19 goals in 9 games in the VFL this year. but people are forgetting his 2013 year, where he kicked 33 goals in 18 goal.
Majak Daw i would take in a heartbeat. Is the most athletic out of this lot and doesnt need a lot of the ball to make an impact. Can play ruck also and is very able to carry the ruckload throughout a game.

all better options than Vickery, albeit with more risk.

I do like Vardy but he is more likely to get an injury playing Chess than kicking 50 a year for us. It's why Cats fans won't be too sad to see him go.
Didn't know Stewart was getting those numbers. But we need to remember, the NEAFL isn't exactly a gauge into how good a player can be.
I agree that O'Brien is different from Ceglar but with him out, I don't see the Hawks giving him up, without a trade that is lopsided in their favour.
Black honestly is more meh than Vickery and that shouldn't be possible. Still, he is experienced. That's all I've got.
I would take Magic Daw in a heartbeat too, AND HE'S OUT OF CONTRACT. But it wouldn't surprise me if clubs with more to offer tried to get after him (heard the Tiggy's are after him along with Carlton).

Vickery is semi-proven. I honestly don't think he's worth overlooking when the other options (bar Daw) aren't anything to write home about either.

 

[TheBeardAmigos]

I do like Vardy but he is more likely to get an injury playing Chess than kicking 50 a year for us. It's why Cats fans won't be too sad to see him go.
Didn't know Stewart was getting those numbers. But we need to remember, the NEAFL isn't exactly a gauge into how good a player can be.
I agree that O'Brien is different from Ceglar but with him out, I don't see the Hawks giving him up, without a trade that is lopsided in their favour.
Black honestly is more meh than Vickery and that shouldn't be possible. Still, he is experienced. That's all I've got.
I would take Magic Daw in a heartbeat too, AND HE'S OUT OF CONTRACT. But it wouldn't surprise me if clubs with more to offer tried to get after him (heard the Tiggy's are after him along with Carlton).

Vickery is semi-proven. I honestly don't think he's worth overlooking when the other options (bar Daw) aren't anything to write home about either.

i do get your points, but in the end, would you rather a fit Vickery or a fit Vardy/O'Brien/Stewart?
i know which one i would want.
We need to take a risk, hence why im advocating getting one of those blokes. We know Vickery's limitations, but we dont know the others limitations.

 

[Hong-Kong Phooey]

Because Vickery is essentially Lobbe who takes 1 more mark a game and kicks 1 goal

i guess something is better than nothing

 

[Nemisis]

I reckon we'll rookie Immanuel Irra.

Have been watching him for a few years and this is by far his best season but I don't think he will make it as an AFL player.

 

[philthy05]

what is his expected price being flipped around at the moment? i think we should have money next year. Monfries and Ryder are erased so we should have at least the 5% carryover next year (or about 600k).

surely Vickery is only going to be a bit above average wage of 300k for 3 years. 550/250/250 (350 p/y) should easily be able to fit in the cap? nothing's ideal but i'd rather be in cap trouble than spending picks on say a Majak Daw.

he's being consistently dropped from richmond who don't really have a replacement i would have thought while big guys hold value his value is still just slightly above average wage.

We paid monfries and White both 400k over 4 seasons (white may have been three?)

And that was when we had a shiny bright future and finals on the horizon, and in monfries case his hometown.


Vickery for all his spudness will have at least 400k offers from Victorian teams. Maybe 370-430k. To bring him to port would take an offer like 400k over 4. **** that.