Looking ahead to 2024

[twhowler]

Agree 100%.
The other factor is how Gardners form is going at the time. I often see Dizzy's ( & a few other players) contribution to the team being significantly under rated on BF but his Team Mates & Coach have a very different regard for what he brings to the backline....It will be an interesting situation if/when it comes.

Re Gardner it's an interesting one because we have competing Lions ideologies of A back in the player we like and rate versus B always making recruits best 22 players (at least in the beginning). I can't think of a single recruit who didn't get that chance. Even Cockatoo off pretty limited form in the 2s got a gig and plated finals.

Is there room for both? Would seem unlikely if Andrews and Payne are playing. Not many teams have anyone resembling a third tall to worry about. Andrews and Payne play a lot of minutes. So would be very strange to play 2 third tall types. Gardner could be lockdown and Doedee intercept at a stretch. But it makes us slower which is the opposite of our transition from 2022 to now when our backline has got so much more speed in it and ability to cover transition.

Anyway not a huge issue - cover is good to have. And Doedee coming off a knee.

 

[Berrygood]

Agree 100%.
The other factor is how Gardners form is going at the time. I often see Dizzy's ( & a few other players) contribution to the team being significantly under rated on BF but his Team Mates & Coach have a very different regard for what he brings to the backline....It will be an interesting situation if/when it comes.

His body is good, he'll get a good preseason into him, I think Gardiner will start the season the best he's been for years. He starts over Lester. He brings a bit of that cranky mongrel to the team, to the back 6. Starce will thrive off it. I think we forget how valuable Darcy was as a mainstay of our defense with Andrews for years. Plagued with injuries the last cpl of years. Now at 28 with a strong body, benchmark performances in the finals to work from, I think he can get back to his near best and really contribute not just keep the seat warm for Doedee.

I also read earlier here that Berry had been seen showing signs of shoulder surgery. I hope we go very cautious with him. I've felt he's been rushed back too early in the past, cops a setback, never heals properly and battles thru the season. There is absolutely no need to rush him back. Let him get 100%, give him the best chance to be his best this season. I think he's a best 22 player, bottom 6 of that 22 now but still in there. Like Darcy could really improve with a reliable body.

 

[KissKiss]

I admit I struggle to see Dizzy as a straight into the best 22, not because of how I rate him but more on the mix of roles in the back 6.

I dont think we can/should play all 4 of Andrews, Payne, Lester and Dizzy at the same time. For the talls Gardiner is maybe better defensively than Payne at this point (though I think Payne is developing great) but I want Payne's extra size in the team. So I see Dizzy competing then for the third spot. At the moment I think Lester offers a bit better intercepting and rebounding than Dizzy which is what I rate in the third spot a little more. So at the moment he is the one who drops out of a tall back spot on the "physical" make up of the back line. That is ignoring things like playing roles and following instructions which is so much harder to see from the outside.

Of course its a long off season and things will likely change over the pre-season pending who is fit and firing. And of course then over the season and once Doedee gets fit there's another player to see how they fit into the system

 

[On the quiet]

IMO there is, and always has been a question mark with Dizzy playing true lockdown role on the big boys, pre Adams. Don't doubt his competitiveness, but too short and gives aways frees and not heavy enough for the bigger full forward types nor arguably the 2m+ agile taller forwards. Pre Adams and Payne, on occasions, Andrews has had to match up on the Hawkins, the McKay the King types and has struggled at times when performing that 1 v 1 role, as opposed to intercepting. Yes I know there are 1 v 1 stats on Andrews, but as Mark Twain said, ...

Unless Payne regresses, or he takes some time to overcome his injury, he offers a number of options. I am pretty sure he did a pretty decent role on Jamie Elliot up at the GABBA early in the season. Not sure too many 100kg+ backs offer that flexibility.

FWIW Round 1-2024, I see a fit Dizzy picked ahead of Lester (sorry 3kz) Andrews and Paynes as the talls.

 

[BuntonRules]

I just think that, as a team, our needs have moved beyond Darcy. I say that with respect. When we were getting flogged, we needed a dour defender. To win a flag we need an intercept/ creative type. Both Ryan and Tom are in front of Dizzy, IMO.

 

[Mighty Lions]

I just think that, as a team, our needs have moved beyond Darcy. I say that with respect. When we were getting flogged, we needed a dour defender. To win a flag we need an intercept/ creative type. Both Ryan and Tom are in front of Dizzy, IMO.

Lester a long way back from a fit Gardner and I have no doubt Gardner will be selected well ahead of Lester come Round 1 "should he be fit". (thats the important words) ....Take that to the bank.

P.S. Who is Tom? Doodee?

 

[BuntonRules]

Lester a long way back from a fit Gardner and I have no doubt Gardner will be selected well ahead of Lester come Round 1 "should he be fit". (thats the important words) ....Take that to the bank.

P.S. Who is Tom? Doodee?

Each to there own.

P.S. Who doo you reckon, club expert?

tom doedee - Bing

 

[Big Sauce 21]

I'd prefer Lester.

 

[On the quiet]

Lester a long way back from a fit Gardner and I have no doubt Gardner will be selected well ahead of Lester come Round 1 "should he be fit". (thats the important words) ....Take that to the bank.

P.S. Who is Tom? Doodee?

'Mighty Lions' you also had Rich having a huge 2023, because apparently he had a good preseason. Things change. Agree a fit Dizzy is ahead of Lester come round 1, all things equal. But, if you have Dizzy as a lock best 22 for the year (your other posts have indicated this) then why did we get Tom D? and then we have Payne on a long term deal.

We have shown that when we target players they get a decent crack at it, so I expect Doedee to be playing best 22 when fit, approximately sometime after the bye.

 

[Nunez]

'Mighty Lions' you also had Rich having a huge 2023, because apparently he had a good preseason. Things change. Agree a fit Dizzy is ahead of Lester come round 1, all things equal. But, if you have Dizzy as a lock best 22 for the year (your other posts have indicated this) then why did we get Tom D? and then we have Payne on a long term deal.

We have shown that when we target players they get a decent crack at it, so I expect Doedee to be playing best 22 when fit, approximately sometime after the bye.

If we're in a situation where Andrews, Payne, Doedee & Gardiner are all fit and firing, I could absolutely see us moving one of the first three forward.

 

[mpal6]

If we're in a situation where Andrews, Payne, Doedee & Gardiner are all fit and firing, I could absolutely see us moving one of the first three forward.

Dizzy would be an interesting pick to play defensive forward on say May or Aliir or Moore. He'll wrestle with them like his life is dependent on it.

We could trial him to play on opposition intercepting talls like what Gold Coast did to Andrews last year.

 

[Section 5]

If we're in a situation where Andrews, Payne, Doedee & Gardiner are all fit and firing, I could absolutely see us moving one of the first three forward.

Don't see that happening even if one of Joe or Hippy went down.

 

[Nunez]

Don't see that happening even if one of Joe or Hippy went down.

Never say never.

 

[Nathan Barley]

If we're in a situation where Andrews, Payne, Doedee & Gardiner are all fit and firing, I could absolutely see us moving one of the first three forward.

Watching Doedees strong marking in the highlist video did make me wonder what he would be like forward

 

[Section 5]

Watching Doedees strong marking in the highlist video did make me wonder what he would be like forward

Quite a few forwards in AFL do make a successful transition to defense.
It is going the other way that is far more difficult for players to adjust to.

I think a bit straighter running that is done by defenders will be better for his ACLs

 

[On the quiet]

If we're in a situation where Andrews, Payne, Doedee & Gardiner are all fit and firing, I could absolutely see us moving one of the first three forward.

No I cant see it happening, but that said, there might be the odd game where I reckon Payne could be effective as a defensive type forward doing a role on Moore. BUT it will not happen, i think his cards are marked as under the goal post lock down role.

Also as mentioned by another poster, Dizzy could perform possibly a similar role. BUT very likely it will not happen

 

[Grasshopper17]

No I cant see it happening, but that said, there might be the odd game where I reckon Payne could be effective as a defensive type forward doing a role on Moore. BUT it will not happen, i think his cards are marked as under the goal post lock down role.

Also as mentioned by another poster, Dizzy could perform possibly a similar role. BUT very likely it will not happen

Payne's height would be wasted in that role. Just as key position defenders are quite often effective even against taller opponents, so would a defensive forward playing against a taller intercept defender.

It's why I think a guy like Callum Ah Chee would be well suited to the role.

 

[Scubaveg]

If we're in a situation where Andrews, Payne, Doedee & Gardiner are all fit and firing, I could absolutely see us moving one of the first three forward.

Doodee forward?


On iPhone using BigFooty.com mobile app

 

[martinson]

I don't see anything wrong with what Lester did this year.

I was surprisingly impressed.

 

[SizeMatters]

I don't see anything wrong with what Lester did this year.

I was surprisingly impressed.

I'd have Lester over Gardiner to be honest. We can't have two shutdown type defenders but Lester is a leader and actually improved his offensive game a lot. Gardiner is probably the slightly better defender but his go to kick is a backwards/sideways kick to Andrews a lot of the time.

 

[BuntonRules]

I'd have Lester over Gardiner to be honest. We can't have two shutdown type defenders but Lester is a leader and actually improved his offensive game a lot. Gardiner is probably the slightly better defender but his go to kick is a backwards/sideways kick to Andrews a lot of the time.

Lester's attacking game is something Gardiner is not capable of.

 

[rye]

i dont really see gardiner competing with lester

i see it as gardiner and payne competing for the lockdown defender role that frees andrews up. payne is probably a better intercept player but gardiner can play small better than payne if needed

and then doedee and lester competing for the third tall intercept / rebound defender role

 

[SpecialBruce]

I would hope neither Lester or Gardiner will be needed come finals next year

 

[Berrygood]

Darcy as the third tall, with Andrews and Payne nearly guarantees Andrews the ability to play an attacking intercepting role. I think we're better defensively freeing Andrews to be attacking than relying on Lester. And I do think we're underestimating Darcy's attacking ability. When he gets the ball with advantage he plays on or runs on to advantage looking to link up or clear deep. It's when he's held up and he's marked that he turns the ball back to Andrews or someone. I had noticed that towards the end of the season we were moving the ball a lot across the back line to find overlap so Darcy chipping it around isn't necessarily a problem.

Having said that, how entertaining would it be to see Dizzy bashing and crashing in the fwds, being a second skin on Moore or May. How annoying would he be, lol.

 

[Dalions]