Looking at 2008

[smoovy]

Will we be a force at all in 08?

Looking at the F50 and D50 ends I still think we've got the players there to shape the 2008 season. Our issue will be the midfield

Backs:
A defence built around Rutten, Bassett and Bock as our talls looks quite imposing. Add Stevens down there at times together with the run of Mcleod, Johcock and Torney.

Forwards:
Burton, Gill, Hentschel, Welsh looks like a pretty exciting forward line to me. Throw in some McGregor and another strong forward marking option like a Maric/Biglands or Griffin and we're starting to look really dangerous. We desperately need a couple of class crumbing forwards. Bode, Porplyzia and Vince look to be the most likely.

Midfield:
We desperately need some of backbone midfielders to standup and start becoming dominant to the point where they are really influencing the outcome of games. Knights is looking the most likely. Reilly and Van Berlo need to step it up again. We also need the likes or Porplyzia, Vince and Campbell to add something to our midfield mix.

Overall I still think the prognosis is pretty positive. I think our bookends are pretty solid, the keys will be winning enough midfield ball. This year our inside 50 differential has been down. If we win that most weeks I think we have got enough up forward to kick a score and our back will back to there miserly best.

 

[crowman_23]

I just don't see us being a massive force next season. At the start of the season I thought we were running out of opportunities and thought we should have won at least one of 05/06. I thought we were a geniune threat for the flag this season. Even at the half way mark I thought we had actually timed our run a lot better this season but it didn't work out that way at all. We have dropped off a lot and maybe the sign of things to come.

While some of those names do look alright our forward line problems are still right there. We don't know how Hentschel's return will go and it is hard to use him as the bright light for next year as we are yet to know if he will ever return to the player he was, let alone what he promised to be.

We just have a lot of average talls where we need a couple more to be excellent. Rutten is all class at FB and Bassett looks great when the backline is all funtioning well. Bock, McGregor, Welsh, Stevens are all handy but none actually are 'solid' talls IMO. They are very on and off and we need a lot more consistency than they are offering. If we are to threaten at all we need to be surprised by some of our up and coming promising talls. Youth is where we need to look. We have some good young talent and we need to get them in the side for the future.

 

[Drummond]

Will we be a force at all in 08?

Looking at the F50 and D50 ends I still think we've got the players there to shape the 2008 season. Our issue will be the midfield

Backs:
A defence built around Rutten, Bassett and Bock as our talls looks quite imposing. Add Stevens down there at times together with the run of Mcleod, Johcock and Torney.

Forwards:
Burton, Gill, Hentschel, Welsh looks like a pretty exciting forward line to me. Throw in some McGregor and another strong forward marking option like a Maric/Biglands or Griffin and we're starting to look really dangerous. We desperately need a couple of class crumbing forwards. Bode, Porplyzia and Vince look to be the most likely.

Midfield:
We desperately need some of backbone midfielders to standup and start becoming dominant to the point where they are really influencing the outcome of games. Knights is looking the most likely. Reilly and Van Berlo need to step it up again. We also need the likes or Porplyzia, Vince and Campbell to add something to our midfield mix.

Overall I still think the prognosis is pretty positive. I think our bookends are pretty solid, the keys will be winning enough midfield ball. This year our inside 50 differential has been down. If we win that most weeks I think we have got enough up forward to kick a score and our back will back to there miserly best.

I don’t see how we’ll be better than we were in 2005/06, but we’ll perform a lot better than we have this year IMO. I don’t like making excuses but injuries have really destroyed us this year; and we would’ve made the finals quite comfortably if Rutten and Bassett didn’t both get injured. Bode has only played 1 game all year and he’s a massive loss to our forward line. And Burton, Johncock and Reilly have all missed large portions of the year which hurt badly.

Goodwin, Edwards and McLeod are all durable players and perhaps while below their best they’re all still very consistent performers. There won’t be much drop off from these 3 champions next year. I expect Ricciuto to retire as there’s no way he’ll get more than 10 games out of his body next season, and therefore there’s no point him playing on.

VB, Knights, Maric and Griffin will all be much better players next season and should all be in our best 22. Given their age, VB and Knights are ultra consistent and both will go to another level next year.

I haven’t been all that impressed with Douglas this year but with a big pre-season under his belt he should have a break-out year in 2008. Pfeiffer should debut this year, and I see no reason why he wouldn’t cement a spot in the back 6 next year, perhaps replacing Torney.

How many ‘elite’ teams will there be next season? Geelong and WCE are two, perhaps Hawthorn and Port, but other than that I can’t see too many. We’ll finish about 6th next year IMO, that’s assuming we have a bit more luck of course…

 

[smoovy]

I just don't see us being a massive force next season. At the start of the season I thought we were running out of opportunities and thought we should have won at least one of 05/06. I thought we were a geniune threat for the flag this season. Even at the half way mark I thought we had actually timed our run a lot better this season but it didn't work out that way at all. We have dropped off a lot and maybe the sign of things to come.

While some of those names do look alright our forward line problems are still right there. We don't know how Hentschel's return will go and it is hard to use him as the bright light for next year as we are yet to know if he will ever return to the player he was, let alone what he promised to be.

We just have a lot of average talls where we need a couple more to be excellent. Rutten is all class at FB and Bassett looks great when the backline is all funtioning well. Bock, McGregor, Welsh, Stevens are all handy but none actually are 'solid' talls IMO. They are very on and off and we need a lot more consistency than they are offering. If we are to threaten at all we need to be surprised by some of our up and coming promising talls. Youth is where we need to look. We have some good young talent and we need to get them in the side for the future.

We may not be a premiership favourite in the mould of a Geelong or West Coast, but I do not think we will be a lot worse than a lot of other sides going around. There seems to be a feeling that next year and the years after we will begin to bottom out completely, but I don't really see it like that.

I tend to agree in the point I think you are making that we need a realsolid bodied tall up forward. I made a thread earlier out of which of Maric, Messen, Griffin, Sellar or Tippett is most likely to become that player. Consensus seems to be Sellar, but will be a few years yet.

 

[Crow Envy]

Next year will be dependant on injuries. If we have a good run and that includes Hentschell recovering well than we are a chance.

This year we havent had Trent or Bode at all. Then chuck in the players who have carried injuries or missed some game time, Burton, Roo, Reilly, Goodwin, Bassett, Bock, McGregor, Porplizia, Rutten and Maric. Even when a player gets back it takes time to build up match fitness and form.

We have also been restricted to injuries to guys we may have given a run to earlier in the year, like Meesen, Pfeiffer, Gill, Campbell and Mckay.

We have had a shocking run. Having said all of that our skill level has been down, tackling poor and we lack a quick crumber, pace in the midfield and a key forward. But you could fix a couple of those deficiencies by drafting/trading. We already look like we are going to pick up a good forward in Walker. And Drummond I agree with you we will see natural development in our 1-3 yr old players.

 

[macca23]

We already look like we are going to pick up a goof forward in Walker.

I hope that you really meant "good".

 

[Drugs Are Bad Mackay?]

Forwards:
Burton, Gill, Hentschel, Welsh looks like a pretty exciting forward line to me. Throw in some McGregor and another strong forward marking option like a Maric/Biglands or Griffin and we're starting to look really dangerous. We desperately need a couple of class crumbing forwards. Bode, Porplyzia and Vince look to be the most likely.

Our forward line, even with everyone fit and firing, still has a makeshift feel about it. I think we will stack up ok in defence and through the midfield as we always do. McGregor, Perrie, Gill, Welsh - all can fill a role in the forward and bring some strengths to the table but also bring plenty of limitations. Our goals always feel manufactured with some difficulty and an element of luck. They are rarely like clockwork.

One thing that has stood out this season is our forward's inability to put some distance between them and their opponent (Burton aside). The best forwards in the competition (Lloyd, Reiwoldt for instance) can duck, dodge, double-back, weave, dummy, bump their opponent and time their leads so that they end up in ample space. This makes it ridiculously easy for those delivering the footy to hit the target. Our forwards on the other hand struggle to put any distance at all between them and their opponents meaning that the kick has to be absolutely precise. That's ok if we are 100% on, but if we're not...

Inconsistent football is the result. I can't see this changing in the near future with those same names up there.

 

[ICanDressMyself]

Kangas were tipped to have a poor 2007 campaign, even tipped for the wooden spoon and look at them now, unlikely to drop out of the top 4.

As we've seen anything can happen and there really is no point predicting what's gonna happen in '08 when '07 isn't even finished.

I mean hey, we can still mathematically make the finals

 

[Stiffy_18]

How good we are next year will be decided by 2 things

1) Injuries
2) How well Hentschel recovers from his injury.

#2 could be offset by recruiting gun forward to throw into that forward line mix. If we don't land Pav, as appears likely, I think our fortunes next year greatly depend on how well Hentschel recovers from his knee injury and other injuries we cop along the way.

If we had a decent run with injuries and a fit and firing Hentschel this year, we would now be top 4 EASILY!!!!

 

[Crow Envy]

I hope that you really meant "good".

I cant edit that quick!

 

[Crow Envy]

Our forward line, even with everyone fit and firing, still has a makeshift feel about it. I think we will stack up ok in defence and through the midfield as we always do. McGregor, Perrie, Gill, Welsh - all can fill a role in the forward and bring some strengths to the table but also bring plenty of limitations. Our goals always feel manufactured with some difficulty and an element of luck. They are rarely like clockwork.

One thing that has stood out this season is our forward's inability to put some distance between them and their opponent (Burton aside). The best forwards in the competition (Lloyd, Reiwoldt for instance) can duck, dodge, double-back, weave, dummy, bump their opponent and time their leads so that they end up in ample space. This makes it ridiculously easy for those delivering the footy to hit the target. Our forwards on the other hand struggle to put any distance at all between them and their opponents meaning that the kick has to be absolutely precise. That's ok if we are 100% on, but if we're not...

Inconsistent football is the result. I can't see this changing in the near future with those same names up there.

That is spot on

 

[Cap]

i'm going to put my nuts on the line for this one i'm sick of the same old lines so here goes.

by 08 - Campbell will be in our midfield rotations along with Douglas (surely),Stiffy won't be, he is either going to be playing HBF or moved forward, Massie will be retained for sure, i'm suprised people bag him so much on this board,

at seasons end we will lose Roo to retirement, I reckon a couple of blokes like Torney (don't get me wrong i love the bloke but the club may want to move him on) and wouldn't suprise me if Jericho,Doughty/Shirely get the old 1 yr contract offer or the heave ho (depending on contract atm), won't suprise me to see some of the younger guys who have been on the list 1-3 yrs get the cut

Sellar may make his debut mid year, i think with stevens and bock going back - there is only one way for mr rutten to go - that is forward

yes i know all australian fb, takes the monsters etc etc, well quite frankly Bock is the same height and weight as rutten but is much more versatile, give him a few matches an to be honest I think we have a AA CHB in the making (bock that is). Rutten is all class, he's done his time down back its time to move him forward, he has a great first 20 metres and can take a strong grab.I don't believe we need to build our defence around him and him alone.

Mr Hentschel is a different story, i think he'll end up being a HFF if he comes back at all, the guy still walks with a limp 12 months on to be honest can't see him doing much.

the big questions is what do we do next year with Biglands, Hudson, Maric, Meesen and Tippet ?? there is 1 too many ruckman there


The big question to me is how will NC react to this season - is it a once off - due to injuries and bad luck - or is there something in the team that he doesn't like. Personally i'll be mighty interested in seeing what he does come trade time.

oh our 08 season revolves around blokes like Vince, Douglas, VB and Knights all taking the next step.
Vince is the one that really has me interested, he and douglas are the only two crows players i can remember who once drop from AFL duties improved there SANFL performances.

 

[Drugs Are Bad Mackay?]

The big question to me is how will NC react to this season - is it a once off - due to injuries and bad luck - or is there something in the team that he doesn't like. Personally i'll be mighty interested in seeing what he does come trade time.

It is indeed the big question. It will be tough for Craig to maintain his philosophy in the face of a disappointing 2007 when there are 50,000 members, one newspaper and perhaps a Board that want to see changes.

One of Craig's trademarks has been his faith in his players. During matches he prefers to keep match ups the same rather than shuffle people around and to retain our structure rather than move people that are not performing. He is more inclined to keep a player in the team after a poor game and give them a chance to respond rather than drop them to the SANFL.

Another is the Ray McLean leadership program that has been adopted where players take ownership over both their performances and even a number of the key decisions that are made, where leaders emerge from the group rather than get appointed by the hierarchy and players give each other feedback in an open manner.

It will be tough for Craig to hold his nerve and retain his faith in his system. I remember Tony Hall talking about Robert Shaw and he said that Shaw was fine at the beginning - tough, hard and enthusiastic but when they lost a few games he began doubting himself ("I'm mystified") and everything turned pear shaped. Craig strikes me as a stronger character than Shaw and I can't see him abandoning the style we are used to.

I am sold on the Craig philosophy although I understand many on this board wish he was more reactive and instinctive on match day and played the traditional take-charge, do-as-I-say approach. Personally I think that his error is that he has placed too much faith in a handful of players I don't believe are up to the task. That's really the only criticism I have.

 

[kimirocks]

Strong Defence, tall forward line;

F - Edwards Griffen Gill
HF - Burton Sellar Hentschel
C - Thompson van Berlo Reilly
HB - McLeod Bock Johncock
B - Stevens Rutten Bassett

Hudson Knights Goodwin

McGregor, Campbell, Pfeiffer, Maric

My preferred setup, basically a reorganisation, clearing of deadwood;


F - Edwards Griffen Johncock
HF - Gill Rutten Hentschel
C - Campbell Reilly Goodwin
HB - McLeod Bock Burton
B - Douglas Stevens Bassett

Hudson Knights van Berlo

Sellar, Thompson, Pfeiffer, Maric

First team I think will continue in declination, ultimately ending with a finalsless 2008

Second option provides a change, needing players to adapt, we saw in 2005 that we can do it tremendously. Introduction of new players will see us continue our turnover when Goodwin, Edwards, Macca and Burton call it quits. Turning these layers inot bit part players allows our younger brigade to increase experience so that when it comes time to changeover, they are more than ready.

 

[CrowMagnum]

I really think we have to exclude Hentschel in forward planning. If he comes back it would be a bonus, but sad as it is I can't see him playing any major role next year.

 

[suburban_superstar]

hentschel is quite big for a flanker

 

[pjcrows]

We had our 2 years at the top to win a premiership, and unfortunately failed to do it. It'll be atleast 2 years of hard work and developing our list before we assault the Top 4 again.

 

[maccas_no1]

Im more optimistic for 2008 than I was ever for this year, we were hurt right away through the loss of Hentschel and Biglands, Injuires over the course of this year and they have be numerous have killed us, but despite even losing yesterday, Im not too dispointed as the effort was clearly there, I think we were unlucky in a couple of area's and that is what cost us.

I think once the delist/trade/draft period has been done and dusted we will have a better idea of where we stand in 2008....................maybe one last crack at a premiership

 

[Kane McGoodwin]

Will we be a force at all in 08?

Looking at the F50 and D50 ends I still think we've got the players there to shape the 2008 season. Our issue will be the midfield

Backs:
A defence built around Rutten, Bassett and Bock as our talls looks quite imposing. Add Stevens down there at times together with the run of Mcleod, Johcock and Torney.

Backline is still one of the best in the AFL, as we can build it around Rutten, Bock, Bassett Johncock & McLeod. Need to blood younger guys such as Pfeiffer at the expense of Torney/Massie or by using Stiffy or Macca in a different role.

Forwards:
Burton, Gill, Hentschel, Welsh looks like a pretty exciting forward line to me. Throw in some McGregor and another strong forward marking option like a Maric/Biglands or Griffin and we're starting to look really dangerous. We desperately need a couple of class crumbing forwards. Bode, Porplyzia and Vince look to be the most likely.

Likely to be our achilles yet again. Not sure whether we will see the best of Hentschel until 2009, but geez we lack his class. Gill, McGregor & Perrie all have their shortcomings, so again we probably need to start blooding some of the younger guys - Sellar, Meesen, Tippett & Griffin. We desperately need to find a quality KPP forward. Welsh & Burton should be flankers, with the later also in the midfield. Whilst we need Bode/Porps to be fit, should be looking at drafting someone with pace.

Midfield:
We desperately need some of backbone midfielders to standup and start becoming dominant to the point where they are really influencing the outcome of games. Knights is looking the most likely. Reilly and Van Berlo need to step it up again. We also need the likes or Porplyzia, Vince and Campbell to add something to our midfield mix.

Need to continue the transition of relying less on the older guys. Assuming no Roo. Goodwin & Edwards can play other roles, so we should be reducing our reliance on them. Thompson, Reilly, Knights & VB are coming along nicely, but we need to bring through a few more younger guys - Douglas, Vince, Campbell, etc as you mention. Need to develop a quality defensive player too.

I feel our rucks will be better next year, with Huddo fully over his knee & Meesen, Maric & Griffin all coming along nicely.

Overall I still think the prognosis is pretty positive. I think our bookends are pretty solid, the keys will be winning enough midfield ball. This year our inside 50 differential has been down. If we win that most weeks I think we have got enough up forward to kick a score and our back will back to there miserly best.

In summary, our defence is good nick, midfield is OK (not what it was), rucks are on the way up, but we need improve our attack to be a force.

 

[Crow-mo]

We had our 2 years at the top to win a premiership, and unfortunately failed to do it. It'll be atleast 2 years of hard work and developing our list before we assault the Top 4 again.

did we?

that's fine until you appreciate that according to all sources we didn't have a chance leading into those 2 years.

if we have another injury run like we did in 2005, we absolutely will be back up there.

christ look at some of the shit teams contending for top 4 this year.

 

[CaptainDangerfield]

did we?

that's fine until you appreciate that according to all sources we didn't have a chance leading into those 2 years.

if we have another injury run like we did in 2005, we absolutely will be back up there.

christ look at some of the shit teams contending for top 4 this year.

Agree with this. We will be hungry as hell next year. If we can avoid a disasterous injury run like this year, we will be a chance.

My hope is that Craigy really takes a look at our training program and questions whether the extra intensive training we supposedly do is really worth it.

 

[Kane McGoodwin]

My hope is that Craigy really takes a look at our training program and questions whether the extra intensive training we supposedly do is really worth it.

A very small positive of missing the finals, is we get to start our pre-season earlier.

 

[CaptainDangerfield]

A very small positive of missing the finals, is we get to start our pre-season earlier.

and Brad Ebert.

 

[NikkiNoo]

My hope is that Craigy really takes a look at our training program and questions whether the extra intensive training we supposedly do is really worth it.

Actually springy my understanding is that we have not been doing our training this year like the last two. He has backed off on the intensity such as scrapping the tackling drills as well as decreasing the game style drills etc. I believe it is showing up on game day and we are all complaining about it i.e the tackles being broken. I want to see the training intensity picked up again next year.

 

[Markthirtytwo]

Actually springy my understanding is that we have not been doing our training this year like the last two. He has backed off on the intensity such as scrapping the tackling drills as well as decreasing the game style drills etc. I believe it is showing up on game day and we are all complaining about it i.e the tackles being broken. I want to see the training intensity picked up again next year.

The biggest improvement in training next year I want to see is on goal kicking.

This has cost us big time in the past three seasons.
It virtually cost us the game against St. Kilda in 2005 and hence a home PF against a suspect West Coast (at that time) we went over and got ......well you all know the story.

It cost us against West Coast again in last years PF and hence a GF appearance. The week before against Freo wasn't much better either.

That is one area we desparately need to work on. Not much in getting everything else right if we can't finnish it off.