Current Major incident at Bondi Junction

[jason_recliner]

So you think it's not a men's problem.
That men are mainly, almost always the perpetrators of violence, most often against women.
However it's not a men's problem.
You have taken words out of context, used misquotes, to make an issue with me.
That is a men's problem right there.
Well done.

It's not, because most men aren't doing this. It's a social problem. I.e. those of us who aren't violent need to work out how to manage those who are and the risks associated with them.

 

[Pamcake1]

It's not, because most men aren't doing this. It's a social problem. I.e. those of us who aren't violent need to work out how to manage those who are.

I know already.

 

[owen87]

Right about that, it didn't fix anything.
When a man takes a woman to task by devious means, it doesn't fix anything.

That really wasn't what I was doing, but if you're determined to try to twist it that way and ignore anything else I guess you're entitled to do so.

I do think it's unlikely to result in the societal changes you're wanting though.

 

[jason_recliner]

I know already.

Then why say it's a men's problem when you know it's not?

 

[Pamcake1]

That really wasn't what I was doing, but if you're determined to try to twist it that way and ignore anything else I guess you're entitled to do so.

I do think it's unlikely to result in the societal changes you're wanting though.

It is exactly what you were and are doing.
It's rather telling that you are now trying the 'twisting my words' number, when this all starts with you taking my words out of context, cutting up to misquote me to illustrate a very patronising 'sigh'.
You haven't fixed anything in being patronising through deviousness and now you are where, exactly nowhere.

 

[owen87]

It is exactly what you were and are doing.
It's rather telling that you are now trying the 'twisting my words' number, when this all starts with you taking my words out of context, cutting up to misquote me to illustrate a very patronising 'sigh'.
You haven't fixed anything in being patronising through deviousness and now you are where, exactly nowhere.

Continuing to misrepresent and mischaracterise what I was saying and doing whilst trying to accuse me of doing it to you is certainly a tactic.

But let's just be reductive about a complex issue, blame it on men, and get nowhere I suppose.

 

[Cuzz09]

obviously ban men from the shops

On SM-S908E using BigFooty.com mobile app

 

[Pamcake1]

Then why say it's a men's problem when you know it's not?

Go figure.

 

[Cuzz09]

It's all leading to banning men from shops, knives, any cutlery, kitchens.

Like the old days

On SM-S908E using BigFooty.com mobile app

 

[Pamcake1]

Continuing to misrepresent and mischaracterise what I was saying and doing whilst trying to accuse me of doing it to you is certainly a tactic.

But let's just be reductive about a complex issue, blame it on men, and get nowhere I suppose.

You started this all, by your taking my words out of context and cut up my quotes in order to misquote me, I object and you don't like the end result. Now apparently I'm to blame for standing my ground in calling out about your devious actions in patronising me in the first place. Gee, that sounds familiar.
You fixed it. It is very clear.

 

[ms finch]

And the potential reaction of the mentally unwell person to evening finding out that a family member is even thinking of applying for guardianship over them, can have unintended consequences and result in DV, self-harm, a psychotic episode, or a general worsening of their health and mental health to the point where hospitalisation (voluntary or involuntary) returns.

Yes, there are all sorts of ramifications like that as well. People with severe mental health issues also often isolate from family members and friends if they think that person is going to intervene or does intervene. It's a difficult balancing act.

Also, I think people (generally, not you) forget that this can be exhausting for families and friends. It can easily become an all consuming never ending process of banging one's head into a brick wall, dealing with a highly distressed individual, compromising one's own life. Burnout is real and people are human.

 

[owen87]

You started this all, by your taking my words out of context and cut up my quotes in order to misquote me, I object and you don't like the end result. Now apparently I'm to blame for standing my ground in calling out about your devious actions in patronising me in the first place. Gee, that sounds familiar.
You fixed it. It is very clear.

Yeah. That thing about misrepresenting and mischaracterising things? This is an example of you doing it.

 

[ms finch]

IMO, Zero chance of there being trouble for her in this case.
Pressure of the moment, what the murderer had already just done to others, and no immediate other Police backup on the scene, will override everything in this mass murder case.

Plus the fact that there were members of the public accompanying her and others around who witnessed this. She had to take that into account with her actions as well. (So I agree.)

I have a huge problem with police abuse of power and them shooting and tasering people unnecessarily or who could otherwise be helped. I think a lot of police are poorly trained, trigger happy or on a power trip. In the case where an Inspector who, on the face of it, appears to have acted well, bravely and decisively, I am less concerned about her exercising subjective judgement than I am about others. Sadly, because so many police have excercised terrible judgement, we have legitimate concerns about them exercising judgement (and even carrying weapons in some instances) at all. For me this situation is more an example of what should happen with police - that they are trained and know how to exercise judgement well.

While things have to be examined, I would not want to see a witch hunt such as what happened with Sully the pilot. There are times when knowledge, experience and the associated capability mean we actually want someone to make a subjective call that may be outside standard protocol. These should be very rare and special circumstances, but I would argue that, again on the face of it, this situation qualified.

 

[Pamcake1]

There are four main characteristics of patriarchy: male dominance, male identification, male-centeredness, and obsession with control.

 

[owen87]

Schizophrenia and Dangerous Behaviour - Living With Schizophrenia

Schizophrenia and Dangerous Behaviour It is one of the commonest and most enduring myths around schizophrenia that all people suffering from this condition are violent. In public opinion schizophrenia is most often associated with violence than with any other type of disordered behaviour. This...

livingwithschizophreniauk.org

in recent years there has been a strong body of evidence that suggests that this earlier view may have been mistaken and that people living with schizophrenia are responsible for more aggressive and violent acts than people who do not suffer from the condition. Whilst current research evidence points sharply in this direction (indeed some researchers suggest that it points conclusively in this direction) it still raises many unanswered questions as the various studies often use different methodologies.

However, one key aspect of this condition that the modern research does tend to agree on is what most health workers know to be true, that co-morbidity with substance abuse is a clear predictor to violent behaviour. When a person with schizophrenia abuses alcohol or street drugs their risk of engaging in dangerous behaviour increases fifteen fold.

 

[the_interloper]

I disagree with a lot of what Bostonian posts, and he wasn't being particularly polite - nor were you - but I don't think in this case he was baiting you by saying that the things you were posting were quite reductive.

As I said, making this in to 'this is a mens problem' does the issue a disservice and is very unlikely to lead to fixing anything.

When I found out he'd targeted women I felt there'd be plenty of rhetoric coming in the media (both traditional and social) about this sort of a narrative. Of course that discussion won't fix anything, most blokes will just tune out and it would make it even worse.

 

[the_interloper]

obviously ban men from the shops

On SM-S908E using BigFooty.com mobile app

I'm happy to be banned from Ikea, Spotlight, Sportsgirl, there's a few others.

 

[Bombermania]

There are four main characteristics of patriarchy: male dominance, male identification, male-centeredness, and obsession with control.

This topic should have its own thread.

Framing this issue in terms of patriarchy is part of the problem, the men that have a deep hatred of women don't necessarily come from privilege. The police and people involved in social services and people more generally know who the really dangerous men are but the police are limited in what it can do until the person has committed a criminal offense.

Many of these men are already deeply hostile to authority, and their hatred extends to men who don't see the world as they do. Just how do we deal with men that are so violence toward women that women social workers are not left in the room with them. I knew of a man that was so hostile that letters addressed to him could not include a woman's name. How does society deal with that because that's the challenge.

 

[dumb]

Don't think I've met a schizophrenic who didn't think they were better at managing their medication and dosage levels, than their psychiatrist. And that's not uncommon with anyone being medicated for their mental health, but can involve different consequences.

 

[Pamcake1]

Bondi Junction attacker's interactions with Queensland Police 'forensically' examined amid debate over stop-and-search laws

Queensland Police says it is confident the response to previous interactions with the Bondi Junction attacker were "appropriate".

www.abc.net.au

 

[Bunk Moreland]

I’m up for any kind of thing that will reduce violence but - and I can only speak of my personal situation - framing it as a men’s issue doesn’t really leave me much to do.

No man I know has expressed any feelings about harming women. If they did I would be stepping in. As would,
I’m sure, most men that I know. If not all. If the topic of violence toward women is raised, I hear nothing but contempt and disgust from the men around me.

Perhaps I’ve lived a sheltered life? I guess it’s very possible.

So it’s up to men… ok, if that’s an effective approach, then I am ok with it because it’ll be worth it to get results.

But what do I do? What do any of us do?

Tell our sons not to be violent toward women? Of course - any responsible parent should be teaching children this from as young as they can comprehend it and may get into a tantrum / argument with another child over a bloody toy or something. No violence.

I don’t really get what the practical method is.

 

[the_interloper]

I’m up for any kind of thing that will reduce violence but - and I can only speak of my personal situation - framing it as a men’s issue doesn’t really leave me much to do.

No man I know has expressed any feelings about harming women. If they did I would be stepping in. As would,
I’m sure, most men that I know. If not all. If the topic of violence toward women is raised, I hear nothing but contempt and disgust from the men around me.

Perhaps I’ve lived a sheltered life? I guess it’s very possible.

So it’s up to men… ok, if that’s an effective approach, then I am ok with it because it’ll be worth it to get results.

But what do I do? What do any of us do?

Tell our sons not to be violent toward women? Of course - any responsible parent should be teaching children this from as young as they can comprehend it and may get into a tantrum / argument with another child over a bloody toy or something. No violence.

I don’t really get what the practical method is.

It's a bit simplistic but if you have a son, teach them to respect women, and if you have a dickhead mate pull him into line. Unfortunately a lot of these types may not have had good parenting (particularly from a father) and they probably have no mates either.

 

[Ghost Patrol]

I’m up for any kind of thing that will reduce violence but - and I can only speak of my personal situation - framing it as a men’s issue doesn’t really leave me much to do.

No man I know has expressed any feelings about harming women. If they did I would be stepping in. As would,
I’m sure, most men that I know. If not all. If the topic of violence toward women is raised, I hear nothing but contempt and disgust from the men around me.

Perhaps I’ve lived a sheltered life? I guess it’s very possible.

So it’s up to men… ok, if that’s an effective approach, then I am ok with it because it’ll be worth it to get results.

But what do I do? What do any of us do?

Tell our sons not to be violent toward women? Of course - any responsible parent should be teaching children this from as young as they can comprehend it and may get into a tantrum / argument with another child over a bloody toy or something. No violence.

I don’t really get what the practical method is.

Violence is the issue, and it's mostly done by men.

That's why it's framed as a men's issue.

I don't see the point in arguing semantics around that. The solution/s need to be implemented by men, because men hold most positions of power. Women could certainly help guide us though.

 

[jason_recliner]

I don’t really get what the practical method is.

Possibly forced steriliation of certain people is the only effective answer now but it's a sensitive and controversial topic .

 

[RAPPA]

obviously ban men from the shops

On SM-S908E using BigFooty.com mobile app

Sorry honey, I’m legally prevented from going shopping with you. One can only dream of that situation.