Conspiracy Theory Mandates, Lockdowns, Covid-19, SARS-Cov-2 Thread - Get vaccinated.

[Hawk Dork]

It’s like a flu vax, nothing more, nothing less. It protects the person getting it, that’s that.

Never before has so much hysteria been made over one vaccine. It is not about health, it is about control, power, and forcing people to take the jab.

If it was really about spread, and case numbers, places with vaccine mandates would TEST you before entry. A vaccinated infected person can spread the virus. An unvaccinated uninfected person cannot spread a damn thing.

But no, they literally do not care if you are INFECTED or not. Only if you’ve had the mandated jab.

it doesnt take long to go from un infected to infected when your not vaxed may be part of the reason ?

 

[Stocks_go_Up]

You’ve been given lots of information about vaccine efficacy and the stats on vaccinated/unvaccinated cases and deaths.

You’re simply wrong here.



Having talked to a person living in Bulgaria right now, this is simply not the case.

Please read this piece on Bulgaria:

Bulgaria faces its heaviest COVID-19 wave

www.euractiv.com

Bulgaria is facing the most serious COVID-19 wave so far as the EU’s least vaccinated country. Interim Health Minister Stoicho Katsarov warned that Bulgaria is currently using the ‘last reserves in the system’ for beds in the intensive care units.

“The number of infected is 25% higher than in any of the previous pandemic waves. The situation with the beds in the intensive care units is on the brink. We are currently using the last reserves in the system”,Katsarov said on Sunday in interviews with the Bulgarian National Radio and bTV.

Katsarov said that vaccination offers the only solution to the escape the pandemic. In Bulgaria, only 22% of the population is fully vaccinated. According to this indicator, the country ranks last in the EU.

Only 25% higher cases even with Delta plus 22% vaccination rate... According to the experts here Delta is way more than 25% more contagious so really combined with the low vax they should be seeing upwards of 70-80% higher cases compared to previous pre-delta waves no?

Wave has already peaked BTW - it's on a downtrend unlike majority of EU countries which are still trending upwards towards. Again if the vax actually worked as well as you say it does then it would be black and white - instead I struggle to find a single case study that shows the 'vax' reducing transmission to any sort of degree or factor that the big pharma companies told us (75-90% reduction).



Ireland - one of the highest vax rates in EU.. Look at that graph and keep a straight face while you tell me the vax is great at stopping transmission. They make Bulgaria look pretty good.


Bulgaria = ~7 million population
Ireland = 5 million population

Bulgaria - wave peaked - now at ~2000 cases a day.
Ireland - wave still not peaked - currently ~5000 cases a day.

Bulgaria = 22% vax rate
Ireland = 90% vax rate

Tell me again how well the vax stops transmission please

 

[No SPIN]

It’s like a flu vax, nothing more, nothing less. It protects the person getting it, that’s that.

Never before has so much hysteria been made over one vaccine. It is not about health, it is about control, power, and forcing people to take the jab.

If it was really about spread, and case numbers, places with vaccine mandates would TEST you before entry. A vaccinated infected person can spread the virus. An unvaccinated uninfected person cannot spread a damn thing.

But no, they literally do not care if you are INFECTED or not. Only if you’ve had the mandated jab.

If they didn’t care if you were infected then free testing and quarantine restrictions would not exist.
Try flying into Australia without proof of negative PCR trst.

 

[Dogs_R_Us]

Cousin had the first 2 doses of AZ and was fine, but had to have Pfizer for the booster, it knocked her for six. Is it possible to get an AZ booster?

 

[Slippery Pete]

If they didn’t care if you were infected then free testing and quarantine restrictions would not exist.
Try flying into Australia without proof of negative PCR trst.

When push really comes to shove for things like travel and entering a hospital they’ll test you.

But go and buy a pair of shoes? Go into a stadium? Be as infected as you like. Spread it as much as you like. Just be vaxxed, bro.

Btw I’m not advocating for people to be tested going into the mall or a stadium.

I‘m saying it’s all bullshit. Everyone has had the opportunity to get the vaccine if they want it.

There is no reason, zero reason, why we shouldn’t be functioning as normal again. No testing. No quarantining. No contact tracing. No checking passports. No masks.

All of it. Every single last bit of it, should go.

Of course, it won’t. And that tells you everything you need to know.

 

[Chief]

According to the experts here Delta is way more than 25% more contagious so really combined with the low vax they should be seeing upwards of 70-80% higher cases compared to previous pre-delta waves no?

These are your own calculations? Or did you read this somewhere?

 

[Roby]

You are a lying fraud. What a sad life you lead.

Mandatory Vaccinations And Medical Exemptions

Plenty of people in this thread who supported other mandates, said, no, there would not be Covid-19 vaccine mandates for children, they dismissed this notion outright, said they did not support it and said there would be an intense backlash if it happened. So, where are they? kingswood71...

www.bigfooty.com

Really the most disgusting thing I've seen on Bigfooty in my 20 years here (member for 13 years). Trivializing kid deaths. That's where you are at.

 

[Gralin]

Only 25% higher cases even with Delta plus 22% vaccination rate... According to the experts here Delta is way more than 25% more contagious so really combined with the low vax they should be seeing upwards of 70-80% higher cases compared to previous pre-delta waves no?

Wave has already peaked BTW - it's on a downtrend unlike majority of EU countries which are still trending upwards towards. Again if the vax actually worked as well as you say it does then it would be black and white - instead I struggle to find a single case study that shows the 'vax' reducing transmission to any sort of degree or factor that the big pharma companies told us (75-90% reduction).

View attachment 1293482

Ireland - one of the highest vax rates in EU.. Look at that graph and keep a straight face while you tell me the vax is great at stopping transmission. They make Bulgaria look pretty good.
View attachment 1293485

Bulgaria = ~7 million population
Ireland = 5 million population

Bulgaria - wave peaked - now at ~2000 cases a day.
Ireland - wave still not peaked - currently ~5000 cases a day.

Bulgaria = 22% vax rate
Ireland = 90% vax rate

Tell me again how well the vax stops transmission please

Bulgaria also has around half the testing rate of Ireland

 

[Slippery Pete]

View attachment 1293498

Mandatory Vaccinations And Medical Exemptions

Plenty of people in this thread who supported other mandates, said, no, there would not be Covid-19 vaccine mandates for children, they dismissed this notion outright, said they did not support it and said there would be an intense backlash if it happened. So, where are they? kingswood71...

www.bigfooty.com

Really the most disgusting thing I've seen on Bigfooty in my 20 years here. Trivializing kid deaths. That's where you are at.

I was laughing at your suggestion that kids should be mandated to take the vaccine, you soulless fraud.

 

[Roby]

Still waiting for Vax mandate crowd to explain why cases are at all time highs in countries with biggest vax rates...

Can you please just call us pro-science. Thanks anti-vaxxer.

 

[No SPIN]

When push really comes to shove for things like travel and entering a hospital they’ll test you.

But go and buy a pair of shoes? Go into a stadium? Be as infected as you like. Spread it as much as you like. Just be vaxxed, bro.

Btw I’m not advocating for people to be tested going into the mall or a stadium.

I‘m saying it’s all bullshit. Everyone has had the opportunity to get the vaccine if they want it.

There is no reason, zero reason, why we shouldn’t be functioning as normal again. No testing. No quarantining. No contact tracing. No checking passports. No masks.

All of it. Every single last bit of it, should go.

Of course, it won’t. And that tells you everything you need to know.

NSW is pretty much back to normal on Dec 15 as I posted earlier.

 

[Roby]

The answer is the vax is sh*t at stopping transmission. All the other stuff is fluff. Bulgaria has one of the lowest rates of vax per capita in the EU yet somehow hasn't experienced a higher number of cases compared to highly vaxxed nations. I bet they have fake data right? Africa also one of the lowest rates of vaxx yet somehow not experiencing massive case numbers or deaths? Crazy right

Do you know how good the vaccines are? They are SO GOOD we bunch anti-vaxxers on the same level as flat earthers.

 

[Chief]

Ireland - one of the highest vax rates in EU.. Look at that graph and keep a straight face while you tell me the vax is great at stopping transmission. They make Bulgaria look pretty good.

Hmm… let’s look at hospitalisations:




And it’s easy to keep case numbers down when even your health workers don’t believe the virus exists.


SOFIA -- "I've never asked my patients to get those shots," the doctor said. "There are people who don't know what aspirin is and have survived. The only real deal going on now is scaring people, through media and other information sources."

A general practitioner who spoke on condition of anonymity works with Bulgarian national teams and Olympic athletes in several sports, including soccer, wrestling, and karate. He told RFE/RL's Bulgarian Service last month that he is unvaccinated because "there's no proof that's been created by empirical method that [such] a virus...exists."

How Will Bulgaria Vaccinate A Skeptical Public When It Can't Even Convince Its Doctors To Get The Shot?

Bulgaria is enduring one of the world's deadliest COVID-19 outbreaks thanks in part to its failure to vaccinate. Doctors, nurses, and other caregivers are part of the problem.

www.rferl.org

Bulgaria’s testing rate is also low:

What is important to note about these case figures?

• The reported case figures on a given date do not necessarily show the number of new cases on that day – this is due to delays in reporting.
• The actual number of cases is likely to be much higher than the number of confirmed cases – this is due to limited testing. In a separate post we discuss how models of COVID-19 help us estimate the actual number of cases.

Bulgaria: Coronavirus Pandemic Country Profile

Bulgaria: What has been the impact of the Coronavirus Pandemic (COVID-19)?

ourworldindata.org

My acquaintance in Bulgaria talks about the rampant superstition and denial, and a government abandoning its people.

As per the rules on this thread, Stocks, it’s time to say goodbye.

 

[Roby]

I was laughing at your suggestion that kids should be mandated to take the vaccine, you soulless fraud.

11,000 children have died. But oh my freedom and I have to wear a mask!

You're not fooling anyone smart.

 

[Malifice]

This makes sense conceptually, although some workers in higher risk settings (e.g. healthcare workers and nursing home employees) should still be required to be vaccinated.
We already do have an incentivised tax system for behaviour - huge taxes on alcohol and tobacco, 30% private healthcare rebates, GST exemptions on fresh foods, etc. In some respects it's an amendment to existing policy rather than a new one.

Agreed. As a secondary benefit, it would also provide a stimulus type injection to the economy (and small businesses have been hit the worst).

 

[Big Bryza]

11,000 children have died. But oh my freedom and I have to wear a mask!

You're not fooling anyone smart.

From what?

 

[mouncey2franklin]

A) whatever you want to call it. There are out of pocket expenses for most serious medical treatment.
B) just because I recognise the economic benefit doesn’t mean I think that A is the right thing to do just because there is an economic benefit.

So you're happy for the government to:

1) Mandate the vaccines, even though you accept that

2) Some people do suffer serious adverse affects, which you believe can be ameliorated by

3) Having the injured parties offered the dole (until they get better again), because in your mind

4) This is the best economic course of action

Tell me which part of this logic chain I have misunderstood.

Or, tell me that this is indeed your position, when it is boiled down.

 

[Chief]

So you're happy for the government to:

1) Mandate the vaccines, even though you accept that

2) Some people do suffer serious adverse affects, which you believe can be ameliorated by

3) Having the injured parties offered the dole (until they get better again), because in your mind

4) This is the best economic course of action

Tell me which part of this logic chain I have misunderstood.

Or, tell me that this is indeed your position, when it is boiled down.

Yeah mate you're just being obtuse now. And a bit of a dick.

Obviously if people have known issues then they shouldn't have the vaccine.

I explained here. In the post you quoted:

A) whatever you want to call it. There are out of pocket expenses for most serious medical treatment.
B) just because I recognise the economic benefit doesn’t mean I think that A is the right thing to do just because there is an economic benefit.

I can even add a bit more:

A) Whatever you want to call it, people should get income support while they recover. There are out of pocket expenses for most serious medical treatment, and those people should not have to pay anything.

B) It is far cheaper to take care of the very, very few people who suffer from the ultrarare side effects of the vaccine than to care for hundreds, or thousands, of serious Covid cases. Just because this is a fact, it doesn't mean that this is the ONLY REASON I think we should support the few people who suffer from vaccine adverse effects.

So now you know where you have misunderstood. I hope.

 

[Malifice]

And what is that job of the state? Can you articulate it?

I'm a liberal. The answer should be obvious. The State exists to protect people from causing unreasonable harm to other peoples liberty.

They have a mandate to pass laws that seek to minimize the harm people do to others (road traffic laws, criminal code, trade regulation, consumer protection, environmental protection etc etc).

Thats why the State exists. After the Liberals in France offed the Monarcy or the Liberals in America did away with the British crown, they didnt revert to a Stateless system (Anarchy). They implemented a State guided by liberalism as its central core limiter on the power of the State (along with a separation of the powers, constitution, democratic checks and balances etc).

Before any law is passed we first identify the harm. Then we pass a law proportionate to that harm that regulates that harmful behavior.

The harm here is clear for all to see. We're talking about a pandemic that is killing millions, and a campaign of misinformation online designed to convince the vulnerable to avoid taking a perfectly safe vaccine against the disease.

The State here has a mandate to act. The only question is 'are the vaccine mandates themselves proportionate to that harm'.

I'm not entirely convinced they are.

1) Source required.

COVID-19 vaccine weekly safety report - 02-12-2021 | Therapeutic Goods Administration (TGA)

9 deaths. 40 million jabs.

2) What about injuries?

They're overwhelmingly sore arms, fatigue and similar. Compared with the hospitalization rates of COVID (for me as a 47 year old male, it's around 10 percent) that's nothing.

Most of our vaccine jabs have been given over the past few months. If 40 million jabs were having the same sort of hospitalization rates as COVID, our hospitals would have been overwhelmed within a week of the vaccine campaign starting.

 

[Malifice]

On that measure you and I aren't far apart then. Where we differ is your belief that the state (and BF) have any role "controlling" disinformation. That is not how democracy works.

Thats how liberalism works.

If you're spreading misinformation that harms others, the Liberal State has an obligation to act.

Democracy only enters into it come voting time, as a mechanism to keep the bastards honest.

 

[Malifice]

Africa also one of the lowest rates of vaxx yet somehow not experiencing massive case numbers or deaths?

They're underreporting case numbers and deaths by like 10 fold in Africa. They're hardly even testing.

There have been numerous studies done on this. Stop using them to further your argument.

 

[Balls In]

Thats how liberalism works.

If you're spreading misinformation that harms others, the Liberal State has an obligation to act.

Democracy only enters into it come voting time, as a mechanism to keep the bastards honest.

Ba baaammm!

Liberalism

1. willingness to respect or accept behaviour or opinions different from one's own; openness to new ideas.
   2.
   a political and social philosophy that promotes individual rights, civil liberties, democracy, and free enterprise.
   
   
   
   
   
   

 

[Malifice]

Ba baaammm!

Liberalism

1. willingness to respect or accept behaviour or opinions different from one's own; openness to new ideas.
   2.
   a political and social philosophy that promotes individual rights, civil liberties, democracy, and free enterprise.
   
   
   
   
   

I know what liberalism is. It's not 'let people go around harming others'.

 

[Gralin]

Ba baaammm!

Liberalism

1. willingness to respect or accept behaviour or opinions different from one's own; openness to new ideas.
   2.
   a political and social philosophy that promotes individual rights, civil liberties, democracy, and free enterprise.
   
   
   
   
   

the bolded is not about hey its cool if that person is a cannibal, we have to respect that
oh that person thinks murder is fine and normal, we should be open to that

Tim believes the vaccine is poison but works with immunocomrpomised patients as a nurse, we need to accept Tim's individual rights to bring disease into the workplace

 

[Balls In]

the bolded is not about hey its cool if that person is a cannibal, we have to respect that
oh that person thinks murder is fine and normal, we should be open to that

No because its been clearly established that canabalism isn't acceptable in our society. You may have missed the earlier post where I was talking about democracies thriving primarily because of their acceptance of the "argument of ideas"? Science functions like that too. Open debate is the basis of democracies and science.

The presentation of a theory (or policy) which then gets torn to shreds, and the prevailing position as accepted by most becomes the new truth. Its the sharpening of the theory that comes from its scrutinisation and democracy that differs from authoratative systems that demand adherence to a dictate.