Opinion Master Plan?

[Lach72]

Plan? Kick 1 goal to nil?

Take a hike

 

[malpaso]

No the players wernt i remember seeing a few freo boys at the saint (a pub) 2 days after lyon got appointed they didnt seem to impressed.

Probably because they knew they'd have to actually work their butts off.

 

[Andy Brennan]

No the players wernt i remember seeing a few freo boys at the saint (a pub) 2 days after lyon got appointed they didnt seem to impressed.

Freo have some suffering to go yet its depressing

Oh yeah, sure you could tell how they felt about Lyon's appointment from staring at them from the other side of the room.

 

[Notorious_29]

Lyon always said he didn't expect results this year, can't blame him with the way some of our guys are playing at the moment.

 

[mayne iac]

Great op, our core playing group when our first flag hopefully eventuates will be without sandi Pav n macca. When we draft some decent tall forwards to go with morra hill fyfe n co, only then will be contenders.

 

[mayne iac]

Sorry, on our way to being contenders

 

[Sman-21]

I expected us to start slowly this year and start to come to grips with gameplan in 2nd half of year.

It looks to me like we are not improving and getting worse.

I dont see any workrate.
I see a lazy bunch of plodders only working 1 way its not attack though its all defence.
Normally when players are accused of playing 1 way its due to only good on attack, crap on defence.
We are the opposite all doing ok defensively but doing nothing on attack.

Why are we outnumbered at every single contest except in defence.
Kick the ball forward we have 1 target against 2-3 and no running players down there to ever pick up crumbs or try an keep it in there.

I had faith in Lyon but he needs to do something about the defend first attitude.
We wont beat any half decent teams if we continue to defend all game, instead of going out there and winning our own ball and get it going our way.

Its not the players right now its the players attitude causing problems.
Maybe they dont like the defensive gamestyle.
Maybe their so affraid of stuffing up defensively that their scared to attack.
Whatever it is its absolute crap.

Also we are not down on talent compared to many other teams.
Hawks were favourites pre season, they have massive holes in their team.
Carlton gun midfield avg everywhere else.
Essendon pretty much avg everywhere.
Adelaide same.

Coaching and players attitude is the difference.

 

[Clay Davis]

I can't really discern a master plan in this.

He's giving players the opportunity to play themselves in and out of the football club, not the 22.

He is giving the fringe players the sniff if he doesn't like what they offer they'll be gone, expect the final purge and stage 2 of the rebuild to take place at the end of the year. Expect a lot of activity come trade period/ND/PSD.

Not sure you need to play both JVB and Crichton at the same time to learn that they're very similar and each don't offer much. Sure, if you want to find out more about them, give one a full game, and throw in a creative player like Walters to see how he responds. Not two defensive types.

Not sure you need to be a super coach to know that JVB won't give you much in the way of a sub.

No point rushing our future best 22 talent when we have list cloggers on the payroll that need to be replaced at seasons end, the lower we finish the better our position in the draft.

So are we tanking? If that's the master plan, why sack Harvey and replace him with a coach with no record of building a club up from the bottom?

Those hoping for a Geelong/Scott style scenario are dreamers. Yes it's open this year but not to us.

I would have thought most people had thought finals at a minimum. Something as simple as that is looking distinctly unlikely.

We are recovering from last year and (yawn) still developing. It may be hard to see but a powerful Fremantle team is in it's infancy, a helpless whelp now, but we need patience and no knee jerk reactions (we don't want a flash in the pan Macaulay Culkin list, we want the Clint Eastwood of football teams).

A knee jerk reaction like, say, sacking a coach before his contract is out?

What we are seeing, if I may presume, is a sound model. Get your head around the fact that Fyfe, Hill, Mora, Neale, Sheridan, will be mid 20's and in their prime before we have a real go.

Why not late 20s, if at all? The timeframe seems to keep being pushed out. Neale in his mid 20s (say, 24) is 2018. I can't see Lyon with his master plan being around then if strong results aren't forthcoming.

Lyon talks like we need to win now and are in a rush, rightly so, the only excuse we have for losing games is natural talent differential, he understands that, he is instilling a work ethic which, unlike its expectation, doesn't come over night.

No one's expecting it over night. They do expect games a bit better than the last two weeks. We've been lesser than what we were last year for the corresponding four previous games.

We have a smart man at the helm, expect his needs to be respected come draft time. Coaches, all of them, still learning the list and each other.

I thought the point of an experienced coach was they needed less time to figure out flaws in the team and gameplan.

We've waited eighteen years, we've had excuses for eighteen years and guess what? We've still got them.
Please continue to melt down after every game, it's fun for me to watch.

Sorry, but what are the excuses?

 

[Nickos66]

I understand what you're saying GP, but it hardly seems practical to select a bunch of defensive types that don't offer anything 'purely to weed them out'. in theory that's what they're doing to themselves in the WAFL by not performing. We're losing a lot more than we're gaining by gifting them matches when they don't deserve it, especially against crunch games with added media spotlight. I don't buy it, personally.

 

[Big Animal]

Team on paper:

FF Ballas Clarke Crozier
HF DeBoer Pav Mayne
C Morabito Fyfe Hill
HB MJ McPharlin Mundy
FB Broughton Dawson McPhee
RR Sandi Barlow Lower

B Mzungu Silvagni Neale Pearce Mellington Sheridan Menagola Walters

This is the team I'd like to see out on the field with no injuries or effects from injuries. Now I don't want to argue positions or individuals who you believe are missing. Instead, my point is we have a decent team with a smattering of stars and some foot soldiers. If this team was on the park week in week out minus injuries we might be seeing some very different results. Unfortunately the bolded are either out injured or still getting their game/fitness back from injury, or haven't been played yet (don't try and tell me no other team plays first years and sees good benefits (inc. us)). You can see exactly why our midfield is falling down week after week (not getting into Sandi's inability to tap to a team mate which I brought up in the preseason and was shouted down for: I TOLD YOU SO).

So, not going to blame Ross at all for the results so far. I think they would be worse with Harvey with a human centipede-like midfield and no forward line. Though if this sh*t continues with a fit and firing Mundy, Barlow, Morabito, Lower, and Fyfe, or no new players are blooded, well that will be a different story.

 

[Nickos66]

Swap Mundy & Lower over, IMO.

 

[prattsta]

Now I don't want to argue positions or individuals who you believe are missing.

Swap Mundy & Lower over, IMO.

LOL.

Classic BF.

 

[Nickos66]

Wanna know what's even more classic BF? I didn't read the crux of the post where that was mentioned.

 

[MadMac]

I reckon bringing back J-Lo home would need to be the part of any master plan we might have. Is it a coincidence that once he left us as a skills coach our skills went downhill and at the same time picked up considerably at the WCE last year.

 

[IAMJUNGLEMUFFIN]

*cough* Vossy *cough*

Anyway, Harves couldn't take us anywhere as a free flowing, attacking side, why would anyone else be able to?

Um, Ok?

Was 15k KM's away and even I could see that was the epitomy of who we were as a football team in 2010.

Agree.

Turncoat squibs get no respect. Ta ta

You forgot ship jumping rates mate.

Billy H, **** off. You're the first poster on BF history to have done the Triple Jump from one club, to another, to another.

F.O. Ship jumping rat.

 

[Ghost Pig]

I can't really discern a master plan in this.



Not sure you need to play both JVB and Crichton at the same time to learn that they're very similar and each don't offer much. Sure, if you want to find out more about them, give one a full game, and throw in a creative player like Walters to see how he responds. Not two defensive types.

Not sure you need to be a super coach to know that JVB won't give you much in the way of a sub.



So are we tanking? If that's the master plan, why sack Harvey and replace him with a coach with no record of building a club up from the bottom?



I would have thought most people had thought finals at a minimum. Something as simple as that is looking distinctly unlikely.


A knee jerk reaction like, say, sacking a coach before his contract is out?



Why not late 20s, if at all? The timeframe seems to keep being pushed out. Neale in his mid 20s (say, 24) is 2018. I can't see Lyon with his master plan being around then if strong results aren't forthcoming.



No one's expecting it over night. They do expect games a bit better than the last two weeks. We've been lesser than what we were last year for the corresponding four previous games.



I thought the point of an experienced coach was they needed less time to figure out flaws in the team and gameplan.



Sorry, but what are the excuses?

Will work on a reply to this to
tomorrow when I get some time Clay, originally was intended as a solitary post as opposed to an entire topic of discussion. Much expansion/explanation to be done yet. It is in my brain just need the time to send it to my fingers.

 

[IAMJUNGLEMUFFIN]

Plan? Kick 1 goal to nil?

It must feel good knowing your own team has equal chance of winning the flag as Freo does.

 

[IAMJUNGLEMUFFIN]

Will work on a reply to this to
tomorrow when I get some time Clay, originally was intended as a solitary post as opposed to an entire topic of discussion. Much expansion/explanation to be done yet. It is in my brain just need the time to send it to my fingers.

Dont bother. A basic summation of his arguments are:

Our list management is the worst in the league.
Our drafting is the worst in the league.
Our game plan is the worst in the league.
Mark Harvey was the worst in the league, but now Lyon is the worst in the league.

Etc.

You don't need to throw up a reasoned argument, when you can cook up an argument with the support of Cptn Hindsight.

 

[Clay Davis]

Dont bother. A basic summation of his arguments are:

Our list management is the worst in the league.
Our drafting is the worst in the league.
Our game plan is the worst in the league.
Mark Harvey was the worst in the league, but now Lyon is the worst in the league.

Etc.

You don't need to throw up a reasoned argument, when you can cook up an argument with the support of Cptn Hindsight.

Reading not your forte, is it?

Never said it's the worst in the league and I feel pretty confident in the call I made in 2010 that Pitt was a poor pick coming to fruition. Foresight more than hindsight.

Maybe you can stick to believing Suban is the next Hodge along with your numerous other brilliant judgements. Funny how often you have to edit things just to make a post that might pass for drivel.

 

[IAMJUNGLEMUFFIN]

Reading not your forte, is it?

Never said it's the worst in the league and I feel pretty confident in the call I made in 2010 that Pitt was a poor pick coming to fruition. Foresight more than hindsight.

Maybe you can stick to believing Suban is the next Hodge along with your numerous other brilliant judgements. Funny how often you have to edit things just to make a post that might pass for drivel.

Don't talk to me. You're the biggest biggest scrub poster on these boards.

Maybe you can stick to hating every single thing about this club, and pushing your life failures onto our football club.

You wait for every thing to go pear shaped, then talk shit out of your cake hole as if you are ****ing Nostradamus. Fact of the matter is, you're a Hindsight Harry, and you've never made a correct assesemnt of the club that's been made prior to past tense.

You believe in nothing about this club. You focus on any negative that could possibily exist, and even those that don't.

**** off white ant ****.

Talk shit about Suban. One player who you can't criticise his commitment. Better than any **** you've ever had the minerals to back you front running squib.

 

[IAMJUNGLEMUFFIN]

Yeah, I said it.

 

[Schauermann]

Starplayers we recruited all failed to fire, perhaps it is the same when we recruit a starcoach...

 

[theGav56]

Yeah, I said it.

Noticed that post was edited.... What happened? You holding back Muffin?

 

[Clay Davis]

Don't talk to me. You're the biggest biggest scrub poster on these boards.

Maybe you can stick to hating every single thing about this club, and pushing your life failures onto our football club.

Harsh call from someone who has been locked up and gets off on public obscenity. Were you born stupid or did you happen to come that way?

You wait for every thing to go pear shaped, then talk shit out of your cake hole as if you are ****ing Nostradamus. Fact of the matter is, you're a Hindsight Harry, and you've never made a correct assesemnt of the club that's been made prior to past tense.

Where's the hindsight? I'm on record on these boards saying that certain decisions were balls ups when they happened. See Tarrant trade discussions in 2006, the 2010 draft or the problems with coaching recruitment going into 2011. All of those predictions have come to fruition. None were made in hindsight.

We were going well in 2006 and 2010, so things weren't 'pear shaped' as you say. At the time I was vociferously argued against.

You believe in nothing about this club. You focus on any negative that could possibily exist, and even those that don't.

Really? From the guy who has spent the past few years making it his business to slag off Freo's greatest player. Impressive, not a correct call in any sense, but an impressive level of inebriation to make it.

**** off white ant ****.

Have another 'froffie'. Maybe your next reply will require fewer edits.

 

[Chops_a_must]

Master plans are good.

But I don't think a reduction of 2750gL is enough for the environment.