Mega Thread Matt Rendell situation thread #2

[Vader]

Rendell is also a fairly good recruiter in your eyes, no?

An excellent recruiter. He's turned the club's direction around entirely, since the disaster that was the Fantasia era.

However, he has a more than capable replacement in Hamish Ogilvie, who is/was responsible for identifying most of our recent Victorian draftees.

Having a club smeared by racism can last a long time - just ask Collingwood. It took them more than a decade to rid themselves of the stain after Winmar's accusations in 1993. Is saving the career of one man worth a decade's worth of damage to the club? I think not.

 

[Southerntakeover]

Correct.. and the underlying thought process is almost identical to that underlying Rendell's academy idea.

Both rely upon ripping young aboriginal kids out of their communities, at a relatively young age, with the supposed intention of assimilating them into a predominantly white society.

You might not think that this is offensive.. but I can guarantee that there are a LOT of Aboriginals out there who would beg to differ.

The AFL draft relies on young aboriginal kids relocating out of their communities, with the supposed intention of assimilating them into a predominately white culture.

I can only assume you believe it to be akin to the stolen generations?

Personally, I believe this argument misses the entire reason why the Stolen Generations was such an atrocity. It wasnt simply about relocation- it was about the belief that the aboriginal people were inferior, and were doomed to be bred out.

 

[Southerntakeover]

An excellent recruiter. He's turned the club's direction around entirely, since the disaster that was the Fantasia era.

However, he has a more than capable replacement in Hamish Ogilvie, who is responsible for identifying most of our recent Victorian draftees.

Having a club smeared by racism can last a long time - just ask Collingwood. It took them more than a decade to rid themselves of the stain after Winmar's accusations in 1993. Is saving the career of one man worth a decade's worth of damage to the club? I think not.

I dont agree with the conclusions you've drawn re: 'decades of damage', but its neither here nor there to the point I was making.

I was just pointing out that its not really accurate to point out that Rendell's 'good bloke' status is all he brings to the table. We've lost an excellent recruiter because of this. I do hope that you're right on the capabilitys of his replacement.

 

[Vader]

YOU CANNOT SEPARATE THE "CHOICE" FACTOR FROM THE "THOUGHT PROCESS"

Yes.. you can. When it came to the Stolen Generations, it was the lack of permission which made the actions illegal. However, it was the underlying principle which made it racist and immoral (by modern standards).

Rendell's academy proposal has the same underlying principle and is thus racist & immoral, albeit without the consent problem (thus making it legal).

 

[Freddy Bassett]

The AFL draft relies on young aboriginal kids relocating out of their communities, with the supposed intention of assimilating them into a predominately white culture.
I can only assume you believe it to be akin to the stolen generations?

Personally, I believe this argument misses the entire reason why the Stolen Generations was such an atrocity. It wasnt simply about relocation- it was about the belief that the aboriginal people were inferior, and were doomed to be bred out.

Exactly. For some reason that is not 'stolen generation material'....

 

[Vader]

The AFL draft relies on young aboriginal kids relocating out of their communities, with the supposed intention of assimilating them into a predominately white culture.

I can only assume you believe it to be akin to the stolen generations?

It does the same for people of all races, colours & persuasions. There's nothing inherently racist about the draft. The draft isn't about assimilation, it's about having the clubs select the best available talent. Talented kids get moved across the country as a result, no matter what their background.

Personally, I believe this argument misses the entire reason why the Stolen Generations was such an atrocity. It wasnt simply about relocation- it was about the belief that the aboriginal people were inferior, and were doomed to be bred out.

This same belief (aboriginal inferiority, minus the "breeding out" element) is also at the heart of the academy concept. The belief behind it is that the aboriginals need to be assimilated into white society in order to make a success of their lives.

I was just pointing out that its not really accurate to point out that Rendell's 'good bloke' status is all he brings to the table. We've lost an excellent recruiter because of this. I do hope that you're right on the capabilitys of his replacement.

I acknowledged what he'd brought to the club in my earlier epistle:

He's also done a fantastic job as recruitment manager for the Crows, lifting them out of the drafting doldrums that the incompetent Fantasia left them in.

 

[Filthy Fielke]

No, with all due respect, you don't understand.

Indigenous people find the "offer" of taking away their children and that's what they are, children, away from their cultural upbringing to bring them up the "white" way, so to speak.

I reiterate, the majority of you here are looking at this through a white person's eyes and that is what the problem is.

At the age that Rendell is saying there should be "offers" made, these kids in the remote areas are in the process of learning the law as it pertains to the land and the black fellas see this as just another attempt at wiping out their culture and traditions.

People in Rendell's position should know this kind off stuff.

While this is true, it's no different to what the government and some private schools are doing, and those are often reported in the media as feel good stories.

I reckon the fundamental difference is that the academies are providing something the kids want: an avenue to the AFL, while the white indoctrination/education is something white people want.

However, I'm sceptical about the notion of academies and would prefer the clubs make their environments more open to diversity. This would help all sorts of people who struggle to adjust to AFL life, and probably help retiring players adjust to life outside AFL.

I also sincerely doubt that the academies would work because the kids would understandably struggle, just as I would have done if I went to boarding school in a foreign country, forced to speak a foreign language and adopt foreign cultural practices.

And very importantly as you alluded to, they would have to sacrifice 'becoming a man' to play AFL football, which is much worse than going to the city for a while, not making it in the AFL and coming home. When they return home they will have a severely diminished social status, won't be considered a man and will not be able to partake in cultural practices.

Of course they could go through initiation as grown adults as some outsiders do, but that would be like a club recruiting a high schooler, forcing them to quit school and justify it by saying 'well you can always go back to school after footy'.

Thus the 'choice' being offered to community kids really amounts to a choice between an AFL career and being an Indigenous man. Hardly a fair choice.

I think the unexamined assumption behind the academies is that once community people learn the value of a western city life they won't want to return home. This is the sort of ignorant hubris that has marked western society since the first wave of colonisation.

That was longer and more polemical than I thought it was going to be.

 

[ruscy002]

Yes.. you can. When it came to the Stolen Generations, it was the lack of permission which made the actions illegal. However, it was the underlying principle which made it racist and immoral (by modern standards).

Rendell's academy proposal has the same underlying principle and is thus racist & immoral, albeit without the consent problem (thus making it legal).

The underlying principle of the stolen generation was genocide! Do you believe that this is what Rendell is aiming at, or does he just want them to be Aboriginal kids but in a location/environment that will make them better footballers?

 

[Filthy Fielke]

Yes.. you can. When it came to the Stolen Generations, it was the lack of permission which made the actions illegal. However, it was the underlying principle which made it racist and immoral (by modern standards).

Rendell's academy proposal has the same underlying principle and is thus racist & immoral, albeit without the consent problem (thus making it legal).

The Stolen Generations were legal. That's part of the injustice and immorality.

 

[Roby]

I've been trying to make sense of this for a little while now, so I'll put my own viewpoints forward. Probably a good way for me to get my thoughts in order. I should say upfront though that much of this is simply me "joining the dots", since we are lacking concrete evidence in many parts of the whole story.

I believe Rendell was honestly trying to help, and his opinion was that the recent high attrition rate of indigenous players can be explained, in large part, by the dramatic shift in lifestyle and familiarity the kids experience when they are drafted. By placing them in an environment closer to that of the AFL earlier in their life, they stand a greater chance of success.

Unfortunately, Rendell's brash way of speaking apparently offended Misfud and Fahoul, and I wouldn't be surprised if Rendell didn't even realise it, so he kept going on. In the minds of Misfud and Fahoul it went from being an offensive line to a racist diatribe, to the point that they were furious with him.

I suspect the reason this took so long to come out is that Misfud really didn't want to sink Rendell. They're mates. I reckon he kept it to himself, but it kept coming back into his mind. He was torn between looking after his mate, and sticking up for his ancestry, not to mention the responsibilities of his job. Eventually he decided to mention it to Demetriou in an off-the-cuff fashion, probably hoping that Rendell would get a warning or some counselling, and perhaps at worst would be asked to publically apologise.

Demetriou had no issues with making a scapegoat out of Rendell, particularly given the recent issues (not just the Jurrah incident, but also Roos' comments, etc) and effectively demanded that Misfud make the press conference. Misfud didn't want a witch hunt and pleaded with Trigg not to sack Rendell.

I suspect Trigg's response was to demand that Rendell go and apologised unreservedly in a public sense. Rendell, still under the belief that nobody was offended and that he was trying to help, balked at the suggestion and refused to do so, and was effectively given an ultimatum - resign or be sacked. He chose the former. I can't help but wonder if he would have thought about it harder if he wasn't already tired of the job. Certainly I think he would have done things differently if he realised how much he had offended Misfud.

And so we come to the present time. I don't hold any grudges with Misfud - I think the length of time that passed is a reflection that he didn't really want things to go down this way. If he wanted to sink Rendell he could have done so at any stage before now. We've also heard comments about how he pleaded with Trigg not to sack Rendell. That doesn't sound like a man with an axe to grind. I think he's been placed in an unfortunate situation by the way Rendell spoke, and he's probably horrified at what has happened.

Although Demetriou hasn't done anything "wrong" in my version of events, there were a lot of things he could have done right that he failed to do. He had the opportunity to educate Rendell, and would have ended up with a stronger AFL as a result. Instead, he chose to make a scapegoat out of him. Poor form, though hardly surprising.

Assuming Demetriou didn't demand the immediate sacking of Rendell, Trigg's actions were disappointing. I would have liked him to come out and say first, make it crystal clear that the club does not hold those racist views, secondly to suspend Rendell indefinitely, thirdly that he would be giving Rendell an opportunity to explain his viewpoints, and fourthly that if Rendell was found to simply have made an offensive comment out of ignorance rather than racism, that he would be sent to counselling and the matter of his continued employment would be revisted once said counselling was completed. Instead, we got a knee-jerk reaction in which Rendell was denied the chance to explain his actions, and the club is now denied a chance to realistically ever welcome Rendell back, and all for negligible benefit.


The AFL as a whole also shares some blame for not properly educating Rendell in proper cultural sensitivity. Players undergo seminars ad nauseum but I doubt very much that they send their recruiting managers on the same seminars.


In the end, I believe Rendell has made a racist blunder - not out of malice, but simply out of ignorance. Misfud has been placed in a horribly awkward situation, Demetriou has been happy to chop of Rendell's head, and Trigg has failed to stick up for his employee when he needed it the most.

I guess I'm most disappointed in Trigg, but overall I think I'm less angry now than I was before. I'm just terribly disappointed in the situation as a whole, it's a massive pity, and despite making the comments, Rendell doesn't deserve the outcome that has occurred. Neither does Misfud deserve the public outrage directed at him.

I don't even know anything about Fahoul so I won't comment about any part he may or may not have played.

Good post and pretty much the views I held the whole time through out this whole process.

Two more things I would add.

Racism comes in many shapes as this forum evidently suggests. Some people attribute the racism statement to something akin with complete hatred and a want to genocide. Even after certain people in this forum have explained why taking kids under-16 from indigenous communities is being culturally insensitive, even though it's not like the Stolen Generation, the fundamental principles are there. This is the form of racism which is uneducated racism or ignorant racism, and it can be just as dangerous because if a person is ignorant and chooses to remain that way, no education will allow for greater cultural awareness.

Secondly in regards to Rendell, this is in my opinion where he falls in. Considering he is an AFL recruiter it would've been very damaging and we may have taken steps backwards after a lot years of progress on racism. Many people were to quick to judge Demetriou over duplicty but not so Rendell. Even though Rendell gave contraticing answers in his interview and on his last interview on Triple M radio he wen't against what he said on Footy Classified. He said 'other things had been said,' (as to not further implicate his mate) as opposed to 'I can't remember'.

Now reason of deduction will suggest to you this is the most logical missing piece of the puzzle. If Rendell has admitted to making multiple offensive comments, it appears that Michael Gleeson's article The Age was correct in the first place, that Misfud knew for certain this would ruin Rendall and that Demetriou and Trigg had asked for him to resile his comments, in other words, retract his statements. But he obviously didn't but then, after saying he wasn't aware of it, he admits to have done so and this was obviously the smart thing to.

Rendell knows now he has made a mistake, maybe not inherently but given the tumultuous period he has gone through, part of him will probably realise this now. And the best wisdom he has given is that you now support the Adelaide Football club as they need your support above all else.

 

[jenny61_99]

I think the point that some of you are getting stuck on is the difference between being stolen and given a choice. But you are looking at it purely from an Anglo viewpoint and not from an indigenous one as others have said in here. You see the offer of scholarships as a great opportunity for indigenous kids - something that should be grabbed and appreciated. but you arent looking at the bigger picture and that is how that could be perceived by indigenous people.

 

[Mattrox]

It seems that MR has been the only one being open and honest. His MMM interview confirms this. The AFL are supposed to be about reconcilliation, yet this whole episode is the antithesis of that. The multicultural officer has failed in his role already and lacks the understanding to be able to mend fences. Instead he has stamped his mark on the job by claiming a scalp. Leaves a very bad taste in my mouth. It is all the uncertainty and half stories and changing stories that makes this a hot topic. First its a racist comment, then it was other things that were said too. No investigation, no mediation just accusation. Very poor and unprofessional.

 

[Vader]

The underlying principle of the stolen generation was genocide! Do you believe that this is what Rendell is aiming at, or does he just want them to be Aboriginal kids but in a location/environment that will make them better footballers?

The stolen generations were never about genocide. At the heart of it was the underlying principle that half-blood kids (and it was always kids with one white parent who were taken - never full blood Aboriginals) would be better off in white society, because white society was better than life on an aboriginal community.

The policy was well intentioned by the politicians in Canberra, who saw the wretched living conditions and short life-spans of the Aboriginals and thought that they knew how to make things better. That was 1950s & 1960s thinking.

While it might have been well intended, it was cruel in its execution - and frequently illegal, given the number of children taken without their parents' permission (the law required permission).

Modern thinking quite rightly sees this as being morally repugnant because of its fundamentally racist underpinnings - the very assumption that white society is better than life on an aboriginal community.

It is this same thinking - that the Aboriginal kids need to be assimilated into white society for their own good - which underpins Rendell's proposed academies.

 

[Southerntakeover]

It does the same for people of all races, colours & persuasions. There's nothing inherently racist about the draft.

People of all races, colours and persuasions go to schools. If theres nothing inherently racist about the draft, theres nothing inherently racist about a scholarship program. You cant have it both ways.

You're now trying to complain that the main problem with the scholarship scheme is that its an opportunity only offered to Aboriginal People. This is the same backward assed logic which tries to whine that affirmative action programs are racist.

This same belief (aboriginal inferiority, minus the "breeding out" element) is also at the heart of the academy concept. The belief behind it is that the aboriginals need to be assimilated into white society in order to make a success of their lives.

A success of their lives? No. Theres no implication that Aboriginal culture is inferior what so ever. Theres nothing compelling people to join a scholarship program, just as theres nothing compelling them to pursue an AFL career. Its an opportunity for those who are that way inclined.

The reality is, AFL footballers must as a matter of practicality live in the city. Trying to act like this is a unique feature of Rendell's proposal is either disingenuous at best. At worst its something else.

P.s. minus'ing the genocidal element of an attrocity is a remarkably casual.

 

[Vader]

The Stolen Generations were legal. That's part of the injustice and immorality.

Taking the children with their parents' consent was legal. Many, however, were taken without any consent being given. This was illegal - and it is these (now grown up) children who are receiving compensation.

 

[Southerntakeover]

The stolen generations were never about genocide. At the heart of it was the underlying principle that half-blood kids (and it was always kids with one white parent who were taken - never full blood Aboriginals) would be better off in white society, because white society was better than life on an aboriginal community.

The policy was well intentioned by the politicians in Canberra, who saw the wretched living conditions and short life-spans of the Aboriginals and thought that they knew how to make things better. That was 1950s & 1960s thinking.

While it might have been well intended, it was cruel in its execution - and frequently illegal, given the number of children taken without their parents' permission (the law required permission).

Modern thinking quite rightly sees this as being morally repugnant because of its fundamentally racist underpinnings - the very assumption that white society is better than life on an aboriginal community.

It is this same thinking - that the Aboriginal kids need to be assimilated into white society for their own good - which underpins Rendell's proposed academies.

And the truth reveals itself.

You're actually in denial about the extent of the Stolen Generations atrocity. No wonder you throw comparisons around so trivially.

 

[Roby]

It seems that MR has been the only one being open and honest. His MMM interview confirms this. The AFL are supposed to be about reconcilliation, yet this whole episode is the antithesis of that. The multicultural officer has failed in his role already and lacks the understanding to be able to mend fences. Instead he has stamped his mark on the job by claiming a scalp. Leaves a very bad taste in my mouth. It is all the uncertainty and half stories and changing stories that makes this a hot topic. First its a racist comment, then it was other things that were said too. No investigation, no mediation just accusation. Very poor and unprofessional.

If you actually look at all the reports and interviews the only person that clearly made conflicting reports, half stories or changing stories as you say, is Matt Rendell. And he has now for the first time genuinely apologised and will chase down Jason and Ali and do it personally as well. Considering he had nothing to lose right now it doesn't sound like he thought he was in the right. Otherwise if as you say, people like himself who genuinely want to help and were duplicitous and sanctimoniously sacked in this manner, wouldn't someone in his position and altruist like you think he may be, be willing to take this to the bitter end?

 

[ftmch]

Disagree - much of the ambiguity and the necessity to ask all of these questions was forced by the decision to terminate Rendell. Had we suspended him pending investigation, there would've been no need for Rendell to explain himself, and no need for Mifsud/Fahour/Vlad/Trigg to justify their actions and muddy the waters.

They all created the very thing that they tried so desperately to avoid.

It's naive to think that MR would not have to explain himself and the context of his comments had he just been suspended. If anything, it would have heightened the focus on him (and by extension, the club), in light of a final, more definitive conclusion still pending.

The fact that this is still playing our several days later without the additional 'what will the AFC do about this' variable in play, speaks volumes for what it would be like if the club hadn't taken decisive action.

NN's observation that we all need to stop looking at the AFC as a bush-league club that should get behind it's mates, but instead as the professional, corporate entity that it is, is most salient IMO.

 

[jenny61_99]

Vader has made some excellent points in his summary of the situation. I think it's a shame that those of you that have a personal thing against him, aren't really reading what he is writing rather trying to find things to pick him on.

 

[RocknRoll]

We all saw how passionate MR was inhis TV interview. He is a passionate person who thought he had the solution to a problem.

No way would Misfud et al have taken offense if he had just proposed his academy as the solution and asked their opinion.

However, if they had misgivings about it (for some of the reasons stated here) and he thought they were morons for not seeing how wonderful his academy truly was, then I could just imagine him bludgeoning them over the head with his idea until they came around.

It would have been this aspect of the meeting that was insensitive and offensive.

 

[Freddy Bassett]

Vader has made some excellent points in his summary of the situation. I think it's a shame that those of you that have a personal thing against him, aren't really reading what he is writing rather trying to find things to pick him on.

Not me. I agree with Vader on 90% of issues. Not on this one

 

[Roby]

And the truth reveals itself.

You're actually in denial about the extent of the Stolen Generations atrocity. No wonder you throw comparisons around so trivially.

Just thought I would let you know that I agree with what you're saying, it is blatantly obvious but I have been having these circular arguments in this forum over less clear cut things.

 

[SydCrow]

And the truth reveals itself.

indeed it does but maybe not in the way you intended

 

[jackster83]

Yeah well let me just say my loyalty to the club has been shaken by this.

What's the ****ing point? We're a plastic club run by a pack of cowards.

 

[Southerntakeover]

Vader has made some excellent points in his summary of the situation. I think it's a shame that those of you that have a personal thing against him, aren't really reading what he is writing rather trying to find things to pick him on.

I think its a shame that you've latched onto the 'grudge' card again.

What Vader is posting is being discussed on its rather questionable merits.