Mega Thread Matt Rendell situation thread #2

[Filthy Fielke]

The stolen generations were never about genocide. At the heart of it was the underlying principle that half-blood kids (and it was always kids with one white parent who were taken - never full blood Aboriginals) would be better off in white society, because white society was better than life on an aboriginal community.

The policy was well intentioned by the politicians in Canberra, who saw the wretched living conditions and short life-spans of the Aboriginals and thought that they knew how to make things better. That was 1950s & 1960s thinking.

While it might have been well intended, it was cruel in its execution - and frequently illegal, given the number of children taken without their parents' permission (the law required permission).

Modern thinking quite rightly sees this as being morally repugnant because of its fundamentally racist underpinnings - the very assumption that white society is better than life on an aboriginal community.

It is this same thinking - that the Aboriginal kids need to be assimilated into white society for their own good - which underpins Rendell's proposed academies.

The Stolen Generations lasted almost 100 years, were implemented mostly by state governments and had various justifications.

The genocide claim comes from when it was assumed that Aborigines were a dying race (19th to early 20th century race theory), but that children of mixed descent would continue on and be a problem for society. Thus they were taken from their parents in order to, in the words of the architect of the policy Cecil Cook, 'f*** em up white', or breed out the 'stain' of Aboriginality out of them and so kill off the remaining Aborigines and make Australia a solely white country.*

Hardly some well intentioned form of misplaced paternalism, although that was also used as a trumped up pretext in some forms of forced Indigenous child removal.

*Edit: This arguably fits the UN's definition of genocide

 

[jenny61_99]

Not me. I agree with Vader on 90% of issues. Not on this one

No but Freddy you have been unusually one sided in this whole matter. It's Trigg and vlad be damned and nothing else that is written appears to even have any meaning. I must say your vehemence on this is quite unsettling.

 

[SydCrow]

We all saw how passionate MR was inhis TV interview. He is a passionate person who thought he had the solution to a problem.

No way would Misfud et al have taken offense if he had just proposed his academy as the solution and asked their opinion.

However, if they had misgivings about it (for some of the reasons stated here) and he thought they were morons for not seeing how wonderful his academy truly was, then I could just imagine him bludgeoning them over the head with his idea until they came around.

It would have been this aspect of the meeting that was insensitive and offensive.

and telling them that they needed to act NOW is the best way to wind up a couple of bureaucracts from City Hall

 

[alex_is_on_fire]

Vader has made some excellent points in his summary of the situation. I think it's a shame that those of you that have a personal thing against him, aren't really reading what he is writing rather trying to find things to pick him on.

Welcome to Big Footy, you been posting long?

Happens to everyone!!!!!!.

 

[Southerntakeover]

indeed it does but maybe not in the way you intended

If you want to make a point, feel free to make it.

 

[cmndstab]

I doubt very much that the (very relevant) issue of choice was the problem with Rendell/Misfud. Of course, that's a massive key point - the players would have the choice to be involved, or not to be involved, in such an academy, as opposed to simply being taken.

But I suspect the bigger issue was the implication (which I believe was not intended) that "our" way of life is superior. That would be how it came across, but not how it was intended. Just that the AFL lifestyle is very different. Not better, not worse, but different, and if players are, yes, making the choice to enter that lifestyle, we should strive to make that transition as seamless as possible.




Or perhaps there's another option that I hadn't considered before. I guess it's possible that Misfud didn't like the idea that kids who chose not to attend the academy would almost certainly be disadvantaged, relative to those who did, when it came to the draft? It could be argued that in that climate, it wouldn't really be a choice at all - either move away from your families at this important time of your development, or in a few years time when you're old enough we'll overlook you for someone who did. I guess that could be an issue.

Of course, that's an issue with the proposed idea, not an inherently racist view as put forward by Rendell himself. If that were an issue, the correct course of action would be to thrash out a possible solution.

 

[Freddy Bassett]

No but Freddy you have been unusually one sided in this whole matter. It's Trigg and vlad be damned and nothing else that is written appears to even have any meaning. I must say your vehemence on this is quite unsettling.

If I said I didnt sleep for 2 days I would not be exaggerating. He is a family friend and I am hearing how badly he is holding up.

His passion was this bloody academy. He has spoken of it everytime I have spoken to him since he has been back in Adelaide. He had no bloody idea it would be deemed racist. I honestly fear for him right now. That is the issue

 

[jenny61_99]

I think its a shame that you've latched onto the 'grudge' card again.

What Vader is posting is being discussed on its rather questionable merits.

It's really hard not to based on those that are taking him to task. He's not the only one talking about stolen generations, yet he's the only one being picked up for it.

 

[Geoffa32]

Yeah well let me just say my loyalty to the club has been shaken by this.

What's the ****ing point? We're a plastic club run by a pack of cowards.

Welcome to the AFL. I bet most clubs would have done the same thing.

Collingwood would be the exception, as they have a President who is one of the figureheads of the football media.

 

[SydCrow]

If you want to make a point, feel free to make it.

OK, you have called Vader a genocide denier. Do you think this helps the debate?

 

[Southerntakeover]

It's really hard not to based on those that are taking him to task. He's not the only one talking about stolen generations, yet he's the only one being picked up for it.

He's being responded to on merits, and hes not the only person who has been disagreed with on this thread. He has however posted an extremely large amount of questionable assertions.

What exactly gives you the right to come in attacking the posters who disagrees with him?

 

[jenny61_99]

If I said I didnt sleep for 2 days I would not be exaggerating. He is a family friend and I am hearing how badly he is holding up.

His passion was this bloody academy. He has spoken of it everytime I have spoken to him since he has been back in Adelaide. He had no bloody idea it would be deemed racist. I honestly fear for him right now. That is the issue

As are we all concerned for him. I can tell you that steven trigg is also very concerned for him. In light of his apology today though, do you think he may now recognize that some of his suggestions or the language that he used were the problem? Or do you think he only did it because it was expected?

 

[Allefgib]

Or perhaps there's another option that I hadn't considered before. I guess it's possible that Misfud didn't like the idea that kids who chose not to attend the academy would almost certainly be disadvantaged, relative to those who did, when it came to the draft? It could be argued that in that climate, it wouldn't really be a choice at all - either move away from your families at this important time of your development, or in a few years time when you're old enough we'll overlook you for someone who did. I guess that could be an issue.

Of course, that's an issue with the proposed idea, not an inherently racist view as put forward by Rendell himself. If that were an issue, the correct course of action would be to thrash out a possible solution.

Good thinking stabby, definitely a possibility.

The big issue for me is why it hasn't been discussed and thrashed out.

Has matty been so over club land, or so stubborn, he didn't want to go through such a process and the process of education? Or was he never given the chance?

 

[jenny61_99]

He's being responded to on merits, and hes not the only person who has been disagreed with on this thread. He has however posted an extremely large amount of questionable assertions.

What exactly gives you the right to come in attacking the posters who disagrees with him?

I personally believe he's made some very astute points and has shown a very balanced view. I don't believe he deserves this barrage that he is getting. That's all.

 

[Freddy Bassett]

As are we all concerned for him. I can tell you that steven trigg is also very concerned for him. In light of his apology today though, do you think he may now recognize that some of his suggestions or the language that he used were the problem? Or do you think he only did it because it was expected?

I do not think he should be doing any media in the state he is in. I do know Misfud has been in contact with him this whole time. Rendell is concerned for Misfud as supposedly he has 4 kids. That is the kind of bloke Matt is, even though Matt has 2 teenage boys himself.
Honestly at present, Matt isnt concerned about money or his job. Only the reputation he spent 35 years building.

 

[Southerntakeover]

I personally believe he's made some very astute points and has shown a very balanced view. I don't believe he deserves this barrage that he is getting. That's all.

Sometimes theres nothing left to do but shake my head at you in amazement.

 

[Southerntakeover]

OK, you have called Vader a genocide denier. Do you think this helps the debate?

No, I didnt actually use that term.

The content he posted is worrying though.

 

[jenny61_99]

Sometimes theres nothing left to do but shake my head at you in amazement.

Let me tell you the feeling is completely mutual.

 

[Lawrst]

The AFL draft relies on young aboriginal kids relocating out of their communities, with the supposed intention of assimilating them into a predominately white culture.

I can only assume you believe it to be akin to the stolen generations?

This is what rendell's whole point is about, its letting those kids that wish to be apart of the AFL (and their parents want them to do it) start the aclimitisation earlier.

Its not about one way of life being better than another its about adustment to the life that is attached to being in the AFL.

I cannot imagine how hard it would be for a kid in a rural community to leave his community, everything he has really ever known to that point. Move to a big city, not knowing anyone, not knowing how to act/behave/do all with the time restrictions placed on an AFL player.

It would be mentally, physically and emotionally draining on a player and all without their support group they grew up with. I know I couldnt do it, i dont know alot of people who could. Its a testament to the players that have done it but why is it so wrong to make the pathway easier?

Personally, I believe this argument misses the entire reason why the Stolen Generations was such an atrocity. It wasnt simply about relocation- it was about the belief that the aboriginal people were inferior, and were doomed to be bred out.

Like taking a shotgun to a knife fight

 

[ruscy002]

I personally believe he's made some very astute points and has shown a very balanced view. I don't believe he deserves this barrage that he is getting. That's all.

I personally believe that Rendell's clumsy attempt at constructive input does not carry the intent or "underlying thought process" of our worst national atrocity.

 

[Southerntakeover]

Let me tell you the feeling is completely mutual.

Tell you what, if you wish to re-engage with the debate at any point let me know.

 

[OldCrowBloke]

My thoughts and feelings on this whole issue have swung back and forth like a pendulum. There have been a lot of posts on both "sides" of the argument that sound like ignorant drivel, and posts on both "sides" that clearly indicate careful thought and awareness of the issues.

But in the light of the new "revelations" that seem to keep coming out, there is a distinct flavour of "the victors get to re-write history"

 

[jenny61_99]

Lawrst - so you believe Aboriginal kids need to be acclimatised? This is where people come undone.

 

[jenny61_99]

I personally believe that Rendell's clumsy attempt at constructive input does not carry the intent or "underlying thought process" of our worst national atrocity.

I believe you believe that. How hard is it for you to understand and accept though, that indigenous people may see similarities in what is being suggested? I agree, this was not his underlying thought process at all - but I am thinking he didn't stop to think this through from an indigenous perspective.

 

[bjn1960]

Look, the offers for the kids are for under 16's and that, in Indigenous eyes, is just not on. As I said earlier, this is a very special period for that age group.

Every one goes on about Liam Jurrah being an "initiated" Warlpiri man but he could never have been one if he had been at a college, prestigious or not, at the age that has been suggested that these kids be placed.

Again I say, we need to approach this issue of indigenous kids remaining in the AFL with the direct input of the indigenous communities.

I would hope that you would appreciate that all this talk about what's right, wrong, indifferent about the system and what should be done about it, is just more talk from white fellas about what's in the best interests of Aboriginal Australians without anyone asking them how they feel about this. That's the way black fellas look at it.

Wasn't that what Matt Rendell was actually doing? Putting a senario to the them? Getting their opinions?