Matthew Guy. Can a mediocre leader with a 3rd rate team win government?

[peetoo]

Yay now his potential replacement hasn't even finished high school ffs lol. You'd think the bare minimum qualifications to run a state is to complete year 12 and not literally graduate from the School of Hard Knocks.

View attachment 1568598

Liberal leadership hopeful looks to home ownership to boost support among young Victorians

Brad Battin says the party failed to define its values to voters and needs to target the outer suburbs

www.theguardian.com

Gets that reduced home ownership leads to more left voters long term. Maybe it’s not aging that swings right, but wealth accumulation.

Not state issue, but the whole negative gearing thing?

 

[Ned_Flanders]

You're not a good person if you go along with racist s**t. This isn't complex mate.

So should I quit the alp because Latham was a member?

 

[Theseventhhamster]

So should I quit the alp because Latham was a member?

That's a pretty telling moving of the goal posts. I'll be back on the other oval later if you'd like to have an adult go at it.

 

[Gralin]

Dude you think everyone not green is scum

No I think anyone in a party with Petter Dutton can't claim the moral high ground.

Same with a bunch of members of the current Vic Libs.

I mean they ran Moira Deeming and Timothy Dragan this election FFS

So should I quit the alp because Latham was a member?

But he's not a member is he.

 

[Ned_Flanders]

No I think anyone in a party with Petter Dutton can't claim the moral high ground.

Same with a bunch of members of the current Vic Libs.

I mean they ran Moira Deeming and Timothy Dragan this election FFS



But he's not a member is he.

he was though, and i was a member when he was.

 

[Gralin]

Oh and Ned Ryerson the Vic Greens have got some massive issues with TERFs in their ranks and they did not get first preference from me in either house because they've been unwilling to deal with their own back yard, so no I don't think anyone not green is Scum, Labor has recently had a stronger stance in support of Trans Rights in Vic than the Greens.

 

[Gralin]

he was though, and i was a member when he was.

Was he known to be what he is now back then?

 

[HurleyHepsHird]

Because politics should not be "my guys good, your guys evil"

If you lot actually spoke to your local members, you would realise there are genuinely good people on all sides of politics.

Too often we ignore good talent just because they are not in a party we like

This isn't a response to what I posted, just vague platitudes.

 

[HurleyHepsHird]

Was he known to be what he is now back then?

More importantly, did he run a racist campaign and did Ned participate in it?

Some truly astounding false equivalency being fronted by Mr Flanders.

 

[Ned_Flanders]

More importantly, did he run a racist campaign and did Ned participate in it?

Some truly astounding false equivalency being fronted by Mr Flanders.

he was a thug in the ALP

is that allowed?

also the ALP was the party of the white australia policy. does this mean you want it banned?

can you give us a white list of what political parties we are allowed to join?

 

[HurleyHepsHird]

he was a thug in the ALP

is that allowed?

also the ALP was the party of the white australia policy. does this mean you want it banned?

can you give us a white list of what political parties we are allowed to join?

Again, massively skirting the issue.

A candidate participated in a racist campaign, willingly. He didn't just ignore it, but vocally took part.

That behaviour should and can absolutely be held against the candidate in the future.

 

[Ned_Flanders]

Again, massively skirting the issue.

A candidate participated in a racist campaign, willingly. He didn't just ignore it, but vocally took part.

That behaviour should and can absolutely be held against the candidate in the future.

not skirting the issue. you want trial by association, and thats cool. but based upon that, who are the approved parties we are allowed to support?

ALP under your policy should be illegal due to white australia policy (gets banned back in the day, so non existent now)

Everyone has to quit the libs because of sudanese gangs

who else are you banning?

 

[HurleyHepsHird]

not skirting the issue. you want trial by association, and thats cool. but based upon that, who are the approved parties we are allowed to support?

ALP under your policy should be illegal due to white australia policy (gets banned back in the day, so non existent now)

Everyone has to quit the libs because of sudanese gangs

who else are you banning?

It's not trial by association, and the 15 year old nerd argumentative diversions can't change that. "Huh, well who do you want to ban now." Cmon, be serious, you're an adult.

This is guilt by participation.

Pessuto took part in the campaign, he is therefore culpable. No amount of rhetorical silliness can change that simple fact. He supported vocally racist and exclusionary attempts to vilify one segment of the public for political gain.

He didn't recede quietly and not take part.

He participated.

Trying to push blame onto the leader does not erase his actions.

 

[Gralin]

It's not trial by association, and the 15 year old nerd argumentative diversions can't change that. "Huh, well who do you want to ban now." Cmon, be serious, you're an adult.

This is guilt by participation.

Pessuto took part in the campaign, he is therefore culpable. No amount of rhetorical silliness can change that simple fact. He supported vocally racist and exclusionary attempts to vilify one segment of the public for political gain.

He didn't recede quietly and not take part.

He participated.

Trying to push blame onto the leader does not erase his actions.

I do love when people get huffy at the idea that working with the racists isn't good politics, it's just supporting racism.

 

[HurleyHepsHird]

I do love when people get huffy at the idea that working with the racists isn't good politics, it's just supporting racism.

It's crazy to me.

It also takes the extremely detached view of politics as a process/game done simply by politicians, party members or pundits and not concrete actions with stakes.

All of those people who were hurt, alienated or reduced to an electoral tool, that a cloistered group of entitled freaks hoped would be bashed and turned against by the broader public (helping to carry the Liberals to victory), have actual lives and memories.

This seperation from material consequences for the political class, is what leads to the abysmal politics and conditions of the US and UK.

Less concern is required about the career fortunes of elected officials, and more reminders of their duty need be issued or demanded.

 

[MC Extra Dollop]

It's not trial by association, and the 15 year old nerd argumentative diversions can't change that. "Huh, well who do you want to ban now." Cmon, be serious, you're an adult.

This is guilt by participation.

Pessuto took part in the campaign, he is therefore culpable. No amount of rhetorical silliness can change that simple fact. He supported vocally racist and exclusionary attempts to vilify one segment of the public for political gain.

He didn't recede quietly and not take part.

He participated.

Trying to push blame onto the leader does not erase his actions.

I didn't know who Pesutto was until we saw him losing his seat in real time on election night 2018. Same as I don't think I knew who Peter Dutton was when he walked out on the Apology to Australia's Indigenous Peoples. In Dutton's case, he absolutely did what he did as a political tactic (his hilarious explanation for his actions now that he leads the LNP in opposition notwithstanding) and he will have to live with the consequences of where we've travelled over the past 15 years and the progress that hopefully we continue to make. He's got an almighty wedge on the horizon with the Voice referendum: he either goes against an increasingly strong partner in his coalition, or turns the clock back 15 years to demonstrate proof (in a lot of eyes) that he's the same old Dutton. Or he sits on the fence and shows his indecisiveness and probably kills two birds with one stone by turning off voters and the Nats.

I hope that Dutton's actions then (not to mention all the other things he's done in Government when he wasn't trying to reinvent himself into a cuddly teddy bear) ensure that he will never be electable to the office of Prime Minister. It's his Scomo with the lump of coal moment and Millenials and Gen Z look
on such stunts pretty dimly as a collective.

Pesutto could have towed the party line, but privately said "this is BS" in the party room, he wasn't that well-known. If he hadn't done it, I doubt the Libs would have struggled too much to find someone else to do it. He did it to get his name in the paper and because he thought it would be effective for his campaign. And now he needs to live with the fact that he went on the record about it. He doesn’t get to use the "Only following orders" line.

 

[The Punter]

Summary: people who wouldn't vote for Pesutto won't vote for Pesutto.

 

[Gough]

Summary: people who wouldn't vote for Pesutto won't vote for Pesutto.

That's the election winning attitude.

 

[The Punter]

Either way, Pesutto is the new leader. Time to close thread?

 

[Gough]

This is why Gina funds the IPA like she does.

 

[Sqotty from office works]

Either way, Pesutto is the new leader. Time to close thread?

Will need to work triple overtime to drag libs back to the centre

 

[Not Important]

Summary: people who wouldn't vote for Pesutto won't vote for Pesutto.

way 2 simplistic. i'm betting most peeps wouldn't know who he is or what he stands for. and only those with a political bent will know much more come election time if he's still leader. which is an extreme right i.p.a operative. he isn't the answer.

 

[The Punter]

I need a (objective) ruling: if Pesutto is extreme right, I can call Daniel Andrews a communist without discussion, right?

Don't worry, it's not important.

 

[Dave]

Is the IPA an extreme right organisation?

 

[Ned Ryerson]

Oh and Ned Ryerson the Vic Greens have got some massive issues with TERFs in their ranks and they did not get first preference from me in either house because they've been unwilling to deal with their own back yard, so no I don't think anyone not green is Scum, Labor has recently had a stronger stance in support of Trans Rights in Vic than the Greens.

Presuming you were meant to tag the other Ned - not the first time this has happened.

My take on the Victorian Election - I am really preturbed that the Labor campaign team have won landslides off the back of that 'He's the Liberal's cuts guy!' ad not once but twice. This would be akin to the Liberals winning in a landslide off the back of the 'hole in your budget' ads. Mediocre work such as this shouldn't be rewarded.

However - I do love that of all the things the Libs could have run a campaign angle on - their main attack line for a good 6-8 weeks was 'CaN YoU BeLiEvE LaBoR Is BuIlDiNg A TrAiN LiNe!!'. Well, yes actually - that is kind of why state governments exist. Of all the things you could attack Andrews on this was one of the stupidest. Considering how the votes played out in seats impacted by said train line it seems like it was just as effective strategy as spending 6-12 months trying to dog whistle their way to the last election win by whipping up a not even thinly veiled racist fear campaign. For all the navel-gazing the Libs love to do after losing I do wonder if they might ever consider that appealing to people's worst tendencies might not always work.