My take on Jack

[richskee]

Watts needs a long rest.

I'm over the whole, give him time with the big boys etc. Seriously guys, we all know he's light years away from making an impact in the game.

You should have to earn your spot in an AFL side. I've always tried to defend Watts but in the words of Ross Lion "I can't defend the indefensible". I don't have the opinion of most MFC supporters, I'm not going to sugar coat the boy. Hell, i cant even be bothered reading all these Jack threads because most of the opinions of the kid are correct. He's soft as butter, he has no confidence and he makes embarrassing mistakes.

He needs to be sent back to the Magoo's and be told, your not coming back till you earn your spot legitimately. I don't care if he's in the VFL for 2 years, at least when he does comes back, Jack himself will know that he truly earned his stripes on this occasion. Imagine what confidence that would give the kid.

If Jack was pick 55 not pick 1 we all know Dean wouldn't be playing him. So why are we giving him a free ride? Why not teach him the standards that our club expects.

You can't help but think that there would whispers within the club about Jack, the fact that Bate and Petterd are playing in the VFL ahead of Jack is a joke. What message does that send? Ricky had one bad game and gets thrown in, Bate has been told exactly what we should be telling Watts 'your in the VFL until you earn your spot'. Jack on the other hand has pieced together 4 dribbling games and no doubt he'll get a free ride into next week. It's frustrating that our club has done exactly what we should never do and that is make someone bigger than the club. It's Sad.

 

[ThePuppetMaster]

Re: My take on Jack.

a lot of assumptions are made in that post, and a few assertions which i really disagree with

that's all i'm going to say

 

[00Stinger]

Re: My take on Jack.

I agree with the call on Petterd, he should have never been dropped in the first place. Was very good as the sub in the first game and against Hawthorn the forwards had no chance. However Bate is finished IMO. He is a bit like McLean, the game has passed him. We should have traded him last season.

However with your assessment that all players should be treated equally, that would happen in a perfect world, but its not perfect world and it won't happen. Think of it this way, you are a businessman and you have two investments. One is pick 1 Jack Watts, the potential for him could be sky high and you have made a massive investment in him. The other is Joe Blow pick 70, his potential could be good, but he has come at a cheap price and you don't have much to lose if he doesn't come good. Which one is going to get the extra development and the more time to mature?

What we must remember is that he is only really at the start of his second season, not many KPP set the world on fire at such an early stage of their careers. Hurley is the only KPP from the draft to start to dominate at times, however he is the exception not the rule. Remember back to the 2001 draft when Hodge was taken at 1. Three or four years later the critics were out telling Hawthorn they had stuffed up by taking Hodge in front of Ball and Judd. Now fast forward 10 years and Hodge is a star of the game. He may not be as good as Judd but hes not that far behind. Then a few years later St. Kilda was critisied for taking Goddard at 1. He took time to develope, but geez he is a star now.

So lets all just relax on the whole Watts thing for a while, leave it until the end of the 2012 season. That would mean he would have been in the system 5 years and had 4 proper seasons. If he hasn't shown anything by then, we can start worrying. But until then sit back relax and let the club develope him.

 

[Demon 16]

Re: My take on Jack.

The problem for me is that Bailey is sprouting that players have to earn their spot..

I agree with forcing games into Watts - he will come good. But dont claim the policy is that guys will be rewarded for performance (Maric).

 

[00Stinger]

Re: My take on Jack.

The problem for me is that Bailey is sprouting that players have to earn their spot..

I agree with forcing games into Watts - he will come good. But dont claim the policy is that guys will be rewarded for performance (Maric).

Maric seems to be one of the players who will dominate VFL footy and pre-season games (which are almost VFL footy standard), but struggle with the step up into AFL matches.

 

[Demon 16]

Re: My take on Jack.

Maric seems to be one of the players who will dominate VFL footy and pre-season games (which are almost VFL footy standard), but struggle with the step up into AFL matches.

To be honest sivart, my gut feel is he might not make it - but how the f%$! will we know when we dont give him more than 2 games in a row??

He's had a big preseason and playing well at Casey - he has earnt a shot imo.

 

[syl]

Re: My take on Jack.

To be honest sivart, my gut feel is he might not make it - but how the f%$! will we know when we dont give him more than 2 games in a row??

He's had a big preseason and playing well at Casey - he has earnt a shot imo.

PLEASE OH PLEASE MAKE IT MARIC!

(I don't care if I'm off topic, you shouldn't have opened another thread, just posted in the other 50 JW's available)

But yes, I am scared Maric wont make it and be the dominator of VFL - he needs more games to actually have a crack at it, but with the invention of the sub rule, these fringe players are so negatively impacted!!!

EFF OFF SUB RULE!!!

 

[00Stinger]

Re: My take on Jack.

To be honest sivart, my gut feel is he might not make it - but how the f%$! will we know when we dont give him more than 2 games in a row??

He's had a big preseason and playing well at Casey - he has earnt a shot imo.

He is from my area of town and having friends that are friends with him or know him, there is a common theme that he has a bit of an ego problem. Which considering he is now in his 4th or 5th season and he hasn't tied down a spot in the senior team is a bit worrying.

However I hope he makes it, as I do with all players who come to MFC, but I think he might be a bit of a flat track bully.

 

[Chip_]

Re: My take on Jack.

Another thread, really?

Anyway, people who say that say that Watts shouldn't be played ahead of whoever are forgetting one thing, none of them are key position players! I agree Petterd should be in the side & Maric should be back because of his form and Bate deserves to be looked at with his form, but none of them are KPF.

Watts might be getting a bit of special treatment because he's a no.1 pick, but a lot of it is also because they expect him to be a genuine KP forward, of which we currently have ZERO. He might not be playing like a KP yet, but that's why they are pumping games into him. I read or heard something with a coach or someone from MFC saying that Watts has external pressure as a no.1 pick, but the club just thinks of him as any other player. He's getting chances because he's a KP forward & I think he should keep getting them (and I'm not totally opposed to giving him a week or 2 at Casey), unless he's dropped to give Cook or (god-forbid) Juice a game.

Watch this space, Cook will get games later this season for the same reason Watts gets them, they're trying to develop a player in a position we desperately lack

 

[TheBoss]

Re: My take on Jack.

I agree Petterd should be in the side & Maric should be back because of his form and Bate deserves to be looked at with his form, but none of them are KPF.

Melbourne hasn't had a AFL level KPF since Neitz retired.

Watts should not be getting games ahead of more deserving players just because he may turn into a servicable AFL level KPF player one day. MFC should be fielding their best line up each week, and currently that does not include Watts.

He is not improving at AFL level. He needs to go to the VFL and learn how to play like a key forward. He needs to learn how to use his size and how to physically impose himself on the opposition. Let him back into the AFL once he has learned how to play the way MFC need him to be.

And is he really the club's quickest player? Never seen someone move so slowly when they carry the ball, he lacks urgency. I have never seen him give chase after an opposition player either.

Watts should have been given Millers number 7 jumper end of last year. I have a feeling he will be spudding up the CHF spot for years to come.

 

[THE STING2]

Re: My take on Jack.

Watts should have been given Millers number 7 jumper end of last year. I have a feeling he will be spudding up the CHF spot for years to come.

C'mon no one's that bad.

 

[master bate]

Re: My take on Jack.

Shouldn't you play your best CHF in that spot.

Petterd and Bate are undersized. Newton is a full forward. Watts is ahead of Cook at this stage. So why not play him?

When Bate gets some speed and height and Petterd becomes a legitimate tall then they can have the CHF spot.

 

[Andy_Mac]

Re: My take on Jack.

You can't help but think that there would whispers within the club about Jack, the fact that Bate and Petterd are playing in the VFL ahead of Jack is a joke. What message does that send? Ricky had one bad game and gets thrown in, Bate has been told exactly what we should be telling Watts 'your in the VFL until you earn your spot'. Jack on the other hand has pieced together 4 dribbling games and no doubt he'll get a free ride into next week. It's frustrating that our club has done exactly what we should never do and that is make someone bigger than the club. It's Sad.

Not that i disagree with the premise of dropping Watts to get him some confidence and kick a few goals, but he has hardly played 4 dribbling games.

R1 he was pretty good against the Swans. R2 he had a very good first half but went missing in the second (like everyone else in a red and blue jumper). R3 against the Lions he was poor, but given the conditions it was hardly going to be easy for the talls. And finally R4 against the GC id rate him as again as having played very well given he had only a quarter of play.

I think that some peoples expectations of someone who is essentially a second year, physically underdeveloped KPF are too high.

 

[ThePuppetMaster]

Re: My take on Jack.

Melbourne hasn't had a AFL level KPF since Neitz retired.

Watts should not be getting games ahead of more deserving players just because he may turn into a servicable AFL level KPF player one day. MFC should be fielding their best line up each week, and currently that does not include Watts.

He is not improving at AFL level. He needs to go to the VFL and learn how to play like a key forward. He needs to learn how to use his size and how to physically impose himself on the opposition. Let him back into the AFL once he has learned how to play the way MFC need him to be.

And is he really the club's quickest player? Never seen someone move so slowly when they carry the ball, he lacks urgency. I have never seen him give chase after an opposition player either.

Watts should have been given Millers number 7 jumper end of last year. I have a feeling he will be spudding up the CHF spot for years to come.

that whole statement shows that either one, you haven't watched him at all this year

or two, you simply have it out for him

i think it's probably a bit of both

i can't think of much in that post that's correct, and the part about him movingly slowly with the ball? he has a laid back running style, i'll wager he won't get run down too often...

he may lack a bit of intensity at times, i'll give you that

he has improved, haven't you noticed his contested marks? his numerous spoils in a contest (6 vs the swans)? his calmer head under pressure? his increased workload?

sure he makes errors, but the thing you don't recognize is that many of his errors are 'typical' key forward errors, even n riewoldt still makes errors similar to watts!!!

i can understand some people being impatient with watts, but you clearly have nfi

 

[Hannabal]

Re: My take on Jack.

Tall, skinny, key forwards take time, but the thing I dislike most about Watts is that he is soft. If supporters disagree then they're either clueless or in denial.

That said, as Mick Malthouse said on SEN the other morning "Jack Watts needs to play as many games as possible". There are definitely different rules for some; and there needs to be.

 

[ThePuppetMaster]

Re: My take on Jack.

i agree with you that he appears to be soft, although he did lay a ripper tackle on campaigner in the goal square

he is slowly developing a harder edge to his game, he may not be a lenny hayes, but he'll go alright in that department imo

 

[jimmyclean]

Re: My take on Jack.

Not that i disagree with the premise of dropping Watts to get him some confidence and kick a few goals, but he has hardly played 4 dribbling games.

R1 he was pretty good against the Swans. R2 he had a very good first half but went missing in the second (like everyone else in a red and blue jumper). R3 against the Lions he was poor, but given the conditions it was hardly going to be easy for the talls. And finally R4 against the GC id rate him as again as having played very well given he had only a quarter of play.

I think that some peoples expectations of someone who is essentially a second year, physically underdeveloped KPF are too high.

Thankyou, the way a lot of you guys go off on Watts I almost think you want him to fail.

Go look at objective statistics on Watts' performance, you'll be surprised how dumb you make your self look.

So go ahead, cry and scream we made the wrong decision, I'll be ready to tell you what morons you were/are when the time comes.

 

[Hannabal]

Re: My take on Jack.

So go ahead, cry and scream we made the wrong decision, I'll be ready to tell you what morons you were/are when the time comes.

Who has stated that it was the wrong decision ? I've no doubt that it was the right decision at the time and may well still prove to be so in time.

 

[Gazza_11]

Re: My take on Jack.

He needs to be sent back to the Magoo's and be told, your not coming back till you earn your spot legitimately. I don't care if he's in the VFL for 2 years, at least when he does comes back, Jack himself will know that he truly earned his stripes on this occasion. Imagine what confidence that would give the kid.

That's the only part I agree with. Petterd in my opinion had a reason to be dropped, that the club isn't revealing.

 

[BigSexc]

Re: My take on Jack.

That's the only part I agree with. Petterd in my opinion had a reason to be dropped, that the club isn't revealing.

interesting theory. i like it. what are you basing it on?

 

[dees arent rabble]

Re: My take on Jack.

get the boy steriods

 

[Gazza_11]

Re: My take on Jack.

interesting theory. i like it. what are you basing it on?

The fact that he's quite an excellent player that the club seemed to love last year when he was killing it. Plus he was brilliant in the Sydney game and really the victim of the circumstances v Hawthorn, with no real reason to be dropped on performance. And he's still quite young.

 

[Monkey Worshipper]

Re: My take on Jack.

I guess for me I want to see in the first 10 games whether a kid will make it or not. What I want to see is a couple of moments of brilliance. It could be one dash down the wing with a running goal. A sidestep through the middle and dancing around midfielders. Just one or two moments of brilliance in their first 10 games, a glimpse and what could be.

If I can see this, it's something to work on, I get the feeling that when they hit the 4-5 year mark with 50-80 games, there'll be that magic off-season where they put it all together and smash the competition.

That's what I look for, does it appear likely they will be a game changing foorballer with passion to be the best. Or will they be just an ordinary toiler.

I could give you examples from us on McDougall or even Masten, and as a high draft pick, Masten causes all sorts of debate on our boards, will / he won't he make it.

What must make it harder on Watts, is WCE look they have hit paydirt with Darling, from day 1. Yes I know it's only 4 games he's played, still way to early to make a call... but everything I look for in a footballer, those momemts of brilliance, are there in spades, multiple times in every game.

I don't see hardly any of Watt's games, so I guess I ask the question, are there any moments in his game, or even his first 10 games, that you went WOW! And the second question, does Football mean everything to him or would it be no big deal if he wasn't playing?

 

[Andy_Mac]

Re: My take on Jack.

I guess for me I want to see in the first 10 games whether a kid will make it or not. What I want to see is a couple of moments of brilliance. It could be one dash down the wing with a running goal. A sidestep through the middle and dancing around midfielders. Just one or two moments of brilliance in their first 10 games, a glimpse and what could be.

If I can see this, it's something to work on, I get the feeling that when they hit the 4-5 year mark with 50-80 games, there'll be that magic off-season where they put it all together and smash the competition.

That's what I look for, does it appear likely they will be a game changing foorballer with passion to be the best. Or will they be just an ordinary toiler.

I could give you examples from us on McDougall or even Masten, and as a high draft pick, Masten causes all sorts of debate on our boards, will / he won't he make it.

What must make it harder on Watts, is WCE look they have hit paydirt with Darling, from day 1. Yes I know it's only 4 games he's played, still way to early to make a call... but everything I look for in a footballer, those momemts of brilliance, are there in spades, multiple times in every game.

I don't see hardly any of Watt's games, so I guess I ask the question, are there any moments in his game, or even his first 10 games, that you went WOW! And the second question, does Football mean everything to him or would it be no big deal if he wasn't playing?

Good post.

Yes there have definitely been some glimpses. At times he can be unbelievable below his kness for a bloke his height and he is starting to clunk some big contested grabs. But yes they are a little to few and far between for some.

Darling looks good. There has never been a question over his ability more how he would recover from the assault and I guess the question mark about if or when the next incident will occur.

Also a good point re: his commitment. I guess that's always been my concern with him. Was always a good basketballer maybe even more so than footy. Then he didn't make the call to pursue footy till late.

 

[Syrus]

Re: My take on Jack.

I don't see hardly any of Watt's games, so I guess I ask the question, are there any moments in his game, or even his first 10 games, that you went WOW! And the second question, does Football mean everything to him or would it be no big deal if he wasn't playing?

My answer to question 1, on a whole is No.
The second question is excellent, because he wasn't fully commited to playing football over playing basketball at the start of 2008 and his final decision to play football was in his last TAC cup game. So commitment might be an issue.