Nathan Lyon

[Tiff]

I touched on this earlier in the test thread and got going with someone about Lyons future.

I thought I'd bring it into a thread of it's own as I'm really interested to know everyones opinion on Nathan Lyon.

I'm pretty impressed with his effort so far, obviously has a good knowledge of cricket and pitches and has bowled a pretty tight and composed form of off-spin, especially seeing it was up against the greats.

I like the way he throws it up, but not too much to be put away every delivery. He doesn't bowl too many short ones outside off and as I said, a very tight off-spin bowler.

He's obviously pretty young still and relatively inexperienced, however I just feel he doesn't offer enough varience in his deliveries. These days with the Ajmals throwing sudoku's and teesras and woobly zoobly's, I think he could probably come to be a relief for batsmen. He's very conventional and as I said, I think batsmen expect a higher level of challenge these days. No one needs to be a Shane Warne, but there's nothing wrong with expecting to have a great spinner, instead of just settling for an 'acceptable' one.

I'm not condemning the guy, don't get me wrong, it's just my point of view.

For our sake, hope he keeps it as disciplined as he has and develops further, there's plenty to work on here. Definately the pick of the bunch since, you know who.

Garry Lyon, my friend, you can stay in my team, not that there's anyone else to take your place

 

[aussierulesrules]

I'm very happy with how he's gone in test cricket so far and expect he will be the one we go with for the forseeable future, as far as spin goes. Something would have to change considerably for anyone else to play that role ahead of him any time soon.
I just love how we've picked the team according to the conditions in the past two tests, going with Starc in the WACA test and Lyon here.
Both did/are doing really well in conditions that suited/suit them and the team has benefitted greatly, as we haven't really had anyone there just "making up the numbers", in either test (except Marsh!).
They also showed that they were able to come in without having played the previous test (or two previous tests, in Starc's case) and still perform really well, in fact better than they did in their previous test or two, which just goes to show that someone doesn't have to be in the team for every single game to play well, or that the team has to be completely "stable", in order to function extremely well.
Hopefully this will be the way we play it from now on, picking our strongest team for the conditions, at least until Watson is bowling regularly again, as it allows us to play to our strengths in every test.

 

[MisterMarcus]

He's done well, and the lack of any obvious rival in the longer form of the game ensures he'll be around for a while.

 

[dan warna]

s'ok is his obvious rival.

He's done very well so far.

One average to bad series should NOT be seen as a career ender.

 

[The Passenger]

done pretty well, without being great. it's hard to imagine him being a top tier world class offie, but at the moment he's clearly in front.

he gives us the some as hauritz except he is a little more aggressive and more capable of taking big hauls of wickets than haury.

krazy bowls too may pies, in amongst the occasional unplayable delivery (but those unplayables aren't near as often as his supporters would make you believe). D'Oh!!erty was the most redicolous call up of all time, beer not far behind.

it would be great if a leggie came along. that's why if no other spinner did anythin through feb and marsh and boyce kept going along the way he has i'd take him to the west indies.

there is two young nsw leggies who are in their teens that should start to make some impression in the state scene soon - nathan brain and adam zampa... and i would love to watch muirfield bowl in some longer form games. sam him bowl an over or two in hte big bash and he had a nice action and turned the ball.

 

[King Elvis]

You started this thread the day he got three wickets... Including Sachin...




This summer has proven that you need a bowling unit with discipline and control - Lyon gives you that.

 

[Tiff]

You started this thread the day he got three wickets... Including Sachin...




This summer has proven that you need a bowling unit with discipline and control - Lyon gives you that.

Your point?

I started the thread because I'm curious as to what everyone thinks of the stick man. Along the way giving my opinion on him. Nothing negative.

And I've laready said in another thread, I really don't think he bowled very well today. He got a couple of freakish events to occurr to get some wickets. I've seen him bowl FAR better.

 

[roostersgal4eva]

Tiff thats Cricket - bowlers can bowl well and get nothing or can bowl not that great but get a bag - the figures for his first and second inning should be swapped on how he bowled overall. I dont think he has been that bad that the figures suggest TBH - the way we were talking pre test he was suppose to be lucky to get a wicket..

Ive always said you need to pick one spinner and go with it. We need to stop looking for the impossible - that is another Warne - and look at what the team needs.

Adelaide Hawk made an excellent point in the Test thread - Lyon is an offie, Warnie is a leggie...VERY different crafts to master.

i agree with needing a tad more varience in his bowling like the OP said but that will come with experiance, but I like his temerpment, willingness to pitch the ball up and take the batsman on. He has a 'if they are good enough to hit me for runs well so be it, I will try again next ball' attitue which I love.

 

[aussierulesrules]

And I've already said in another thread, I really don't think he bowled very well today. He got a couple of freakish events to occurr to get some wickets. I've seen him bowl FAR better.

What, you don't think his thigh-high fully to Sehwag was part of his master plan?

 

[Tiff]

What, you don't think his thigh-high fully to Sehwag was part of his master plan?

Seriously, I was ducking for cover on my couch over here in Perth, that's what that delivery deserved.

 

[roostersgal4eva]

could be

Bowlers get wickets off bad balls all the time - isnt the first and wont be the last.

For our wiser, more experianced bigfooty posters - Who would be a good offie to comapre lyon to?

 

[King Elvis]

True - one thing that's really interesting about Warne in the BBL, how many DELIBERATELY bad balls he bowls.

 

[aussierulesrules]

Maybe I could make a comeback. I can bowl lots of bad balls!

 

[aneale]

Bothan took 380 od test wickets, I reckon two thirds were from rubbish mixed in with brilliance. Bowling shit that batsmen swing at can be an art.

How often did Warne bowl a '4 ball' to Callinen so he thought he knew the the flipper, before completely missing the flipper.

 

[The Passenger]

For our wiser, more experianced bigfooty posters - Who would be a good offie to comapre lyon to?

tim may. but more aggressive. and a bit better.

 

[Tiff]

Bothan took 380 od test wickets, I reckon two thirds were from rubbish mixed in with brilliance. Bowling shit that batsmen swing at can be an art.

How often did Warne bowl a '4 ball' to Callinen so he thought he knew the the flipper, before completely missing the flipper.

Yeah, Warne was the master of that

Warne was also the master of deception at every level of the craft, so batsmen were batshit in the head to begin with.

 

[BACCS]

Our greatest offie of all time Ashley Mallett rates him, so there isn't many bigger compliments that he is gonna get. His team mates genuinely love having him around the team, and his bowling has improved significantly since the Big Bash last year. Will be our long term spinner, unless some freak of nature like Warne comes along, which is highly unlikely.

 

[The Passenger]

Will be our long term spinner, unless some freak of nature like Warne comes along, which is highly unlikely.

the unfortunate nature of off spinning in australia will mean if any of the young leg spinners start kicking on in shield cricket, lyons spot will come under pressure very quickly.

whether it's right or wrong australian off spinners don't have a lot of shelf life.

even ashley mallett spent time in and out of the side in the early 70's, though some of this was unavailability as opposed to being dropped, but there was some of that too. but guys like kerry o'keefe, johnny gleeson, terry jenner got a reasonable run with ordinary records. y records that were poor in comparison to mallett.

australian cricket is always searching for a leg spinner.

 

[MisterMarcus]

How often did Warne bowl a '4 ball' to Callinen so he thought he knew the the flipper, before completely missing the flipper.

I remember Warnie doing a fantastic sucker-punch set up to Alec Stewart.

Bowled him a rank long hop on middle and off, Stewart contemptuously dispatches it for four through cover point.

Bowls him another one pitched in exactly the same spot, but it's the flipper. Stewart tries to repeat the shot and is clean bowled.

I also remember Brian McMillan being made to look a fool on numerous occassions, trying to heave-ho the flipper through mid wicket and being embarassingly bowled or LBW'd.

 

[Tiff]

I remember Warnie doing a fantastic sucker-punch set up to Alec Stewart.

Bowled him a rank long hop on middle and off, Stewart contemptuously dispatches it for four through cover point.

Bowls him another one pitched in exactly the same spot, but it's the flipper. Stewart tries to repeat the shot and is clean bowled.

I also remember Brian McMillan being made to look a fool on numerous occassions, trying to heave-ho the flipper through mid wicket and being embarassingly bowled or LBW'd.

Wasn't it brilliant watching Warne work on a batsmen over a period of time? He was one of the few spin bowlers who could genuinely intimidate batsmen. He had a plan, ball by ball, and worked and worked and built up the tension between him and the batsmen. You could even see the looks on his face when he knew he had the batsmen doing everything he wanted, even if that was planting it over his head for six. That little smirk. He was a genius and it was intimidating.

Warne speant endless hours perfecting an exquisite leg break, one he could land right in zone on command, delivery after delivery, even before developing any variation, and "special" deliveries. His genius and his knack for variety and deception are well publicised, but more mention should be made of his near perfect leg break.

Now, two completely different crafts a universe away from each other, and I'm not saying Lyon needs to be anywhere near the same league as Warne, but what I see from Lyon is a fantastic stock delivery. It's smooth and attractive off-spin action, and from the rev count on channel nine appeared to be giving it a bit more rip than Ashwin.

Now this is good to see, his length, his flight and his stock delivery are of a high quality, and if he can just keep perfecting his discipline in that regard, he can then start to develop some variety in pace, length and turn.

I genuinely believe he's got a bright future. We just gotta be patient. He's a baby as far as spin bowling goes..

 

[Bombers_Forever]

He has done very well so far and is very much still learning the game. Now that he has played on all of the Aussie pitches, he will be in good shape for our next home series.

Plus there isn't any spinners exactly showing why they should take his place.

 

[Jimthegreat]

His figures as a whole over 4 series have been very good.

 

[Total_Juddshanks]

Now, two completely different crafts a universe away from each other, and I'm not saying Lyon needs to be anywhere near the same league as Warne, but what I see from Lyon is a fantastic stock delivery. It's smooth and attractive off-spin action, and from the rev count on channel nine appeared to be giving it a bit more rip than Ashwin.

Now this is good to see, his length, his flight and his stock delivery are of a high quality, and if he can just keep perfecting his discipline in that regard, he can then start to develop some variety in pace, length and turn.

I genuinely believe he's got a bright future. We just gotta be patient. He's a baby as far as spin bowling goes..

Was having a conversation with a spinner who knows a heck of a lot more about cricket than me, and he said something similar to the above (in response to me claiming Lyon wasn't much chop)

I reckon it makes sense, if you have a consistently decent stock delivery, you will pick up wickets through poor shots, and the fact that you won't be getting carted means you will get experience and have more time to work on developing variations.

As has been said, its kind of the exact opposite of Krejza, who could bowl the occasional rip snorter, but was super erratic otherwise

 

[maelcoluim]

Lyon's performed OK so far, should keep his place. Don't think he's any better than Hauritz, and doesn't offer much with the bat but seems like they've thrown Hauritz to the scrap heap.Will be interesting to see how SOK performs in the Shield he'll be the main challenger to Lyon imo.

 

[swingdog]

Hauritz was badly handled by Ponting but Lyon does bowl with more loop and drift, and thus more turn.

Someone mentioned the comparison to Tim May. It's a good one and Lyon needs to work on his arm ball which got May plenty of wickets.