Toast Nathan van Berlo bows out

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DD#23 said:
well what do we want to develop in our young players? Diligent training habits? VB come on down!

if we want to develop natural talent, excellent skills, ability to cope with pressure, strategic understanding of ones role in the team and ultimately winning habits, well, perhaps he's read a book about it.

now I have a lot of respect for VB and what he's actually achieved, but lets all be honest with ourselves and admit that apart from being appointed captain its not a long list. Now if you need a development coach (and you have to ask, do we? Who left? Were we one short all year?) and you're going to hire someone with no experience it wouldn't hurt if they either had a great playing resume or were at least coming from a different environment.
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It's worth mentioning that the list of average players becoming great coaches is a lot bigger than great players being great coaches.

Thing with talent, coping with pressure etc is it's natural. You either have it or not at this level. Development is for the other part of it.
 
H
Drugs Are Bad Mackay? said:
I'm sure he's capable of filling the role at Adelaide or any other club.

I'm keen for the club's coaching roles - at all levels - to be filled be ambitious people who feel that coaching is a calling, a career they want to sink their teeth into and something they are driven towards.

What I don't want is for it to be something for past players to naturally gravitate to when their career winds up, helping to wean themselves off playing football while they sort out their post-football property development portfolio, their 5aa gig etc.

If van Berlo is someone who has coaching ambitions why wouldn't he want to experience a culture other than the exact same one that he's been at for a decade? That he is content to just roll into a position that he was likely doing to a degree anyway in 2016 indicates...? To me it's choosing to work for the family business after high school.

A marriage of convenience. He lives in Adelaide, knows the club, knows the coaches, knows the game plan, already has a house here and a library card. We know him, like him, the club doesn't have to try to attract someone or go through an interview process. He can roll seamlessly into the role without causing a ripple.

Is he someone who will challenge the group? Provide an alternative viewpoint? Or will he offer more of the same? If the role is just that of a puppet to roll out The Don's game plan without any initiative, thought or personal stamp then that's a shame. I'd hope that he has higher ambitions than that.

I've wandered away from my point here
1) If he's an ambitious coach then he should go elsewhere to gain a wider variety of experience
2) If he doesn't have genuine coaching ambitions then I don't want him to coach at our club
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He probably loves the club and wants to help them win a premiership, rather than helping another club.
 
dogs105 said:
He probably loves the club and wants to help them win a premiership, rather than helping another club.
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He loves us and we love him. It couldn't be cosier. Not sure it's in his or our best interests though.

I'm sure all our past players love the club and all would like jobs there.
 
Drugs Are Bad Mackay? said:
He loves us and we love him. It couldn't be cosier. Not sure it's in his or our best interests though.

I'm sure all our past players love the club and all would like jobs there.
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It's like a 40 year old child that still lives at home and has his clothes washed by mum.
 
FR0GGY said:
It's like a 40 year old child that still lives at home and has his clothes washed by mum.
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No, that's x Richards or rooch... as vb left home at an early age.

Think it has more to do with having a young family.
 
It's not like we've been the only club to recruit from within for a development coach.

Carlton just signed a retiring Andrew Walker as a development coach.
Geelong just signed retiring Corey Enright as a development coach.
North Melbourne look likely to sign Brent Harvey in a similar capacity.

Collingwood have Anthony Rocca and Tarkyn Lockyer as development coaches.
Fremantle have Roger Hayden.
Geelong have Matthew Scarlett (and now Enright)
Port Adelaide have Chad Cornes and Stuart Cochrane
St Kilda have Danny Frawley
Sydney have Nick Davis and Rhyce Shaw
Western Bulldogs have Rohan Smith.
 

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MRB37 said:
It's not like we've been the only club to recruit from within for a development coach.

Carlton just signed a retiring Andrew Walker as a development coach.
Geelong just signed retiring Corey Enright as a development coach.
North Melbourne look likely to sign Brent Harvey in a similar capacity.

Collingwood have Anthony Rocca and Tarkyn Lockyer as development coaches.
Fremantle have Roger Hayden.
Geelong have Matthew Scarlett (and now Enright)
Port Adelaide have Chad Cornes and Stuart Cochrane
St Kilda have Danny Frawley
Sydney have Nick Davis and Rhyce Shaw
Western Bulldogs have Rohan Smith.
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Carlton has just appointed Andrew Walker as an Asst Coach
 
So much of the Developement Coach role is guiding and mentoring the young players on the list to adjust to the demands of a professional football environment and this role is perfect for VB as there was no one more professional at such a young age then VB

Carlton has just appointed Walker directly into an Asst role however at least with VB we haven't appointed him to be directly in charge of a zone with no coaching experience
 
Sanders said:
You're not exactly someone with the runs on the board to be laughing at anyone.

There are house bricks with higher footy IQ's. :)
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There are house bricks with a more pleasant personality than yourself.

Have you always been a bully your whole life? Must be why you spoke about your pleasure about sacking so many staff.

Perhaps you should take a deep & meaningful to think about why so many people dislike you... as for someone with supposed smarts, your social skills are extremely dumb!
 
Kane McGoodwin said:
There are house bricks with a more pleasant personality than yourself.

Have you always been a bully your whole life? Must be why you spoke about your pleasure about sacking so many staff.

Perhaps you should take a deep & meaningful to think about why so many people dislike you... as for someone with supposed smarts, your social skills are extremely dumb!
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The force of Crowmo be strong in that one.
 
Southerntakeover said:
I suspect that the eye roll is embarrassing to someone, just not who you intend it to be embarrassing to.
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very little of my days are spent on it either just so you know, but I do actually care about the club and the decisions they make enough to actually look at them beyond face value.

I just find it telling that all the people who complain about the complainers have very little to offer beyond "trust the club", "we don't know everything that goes on behind closed doors" or the most ridiculous of all "who really cares". If you just want to turn up and wave flags every week that's fine with me, but if you have to get defensive at the slightest criticism of the club maybe just chuck me on ignore for both our sakes.
Golumless said:
It's worth mentioning that the list of average players becoming great coaches is a lot bigger than great players being great coaches.

Thing with talent, coping with pressure etc is it's natural. You either have it or not at this level. Development is for the other part of it.
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that's true, but as we know correlation does not imply causation and now you mention it I'd love to know what VB's coaching aspirations actually are.
 
cmndstab said:
I don't agree with the negativity on this one. Seems like a good decision. He already has a relationship with most of the players he'll work with and it's clearly an introductory role to start his coaching career. He has been super highly regarded in terms of his ability to relate to and motivate his teammates, and is still fresh out of the game. Seems like a win-win to me.
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My concern is that after a year or 2 of being a great development coach he'll replace a guy like Teague who has headed elsewhere. Then we'll have a line coach who's entire background comes from a reasonably adequate but ultimately unsuccessful period of our club.
 
Southerntakeover said:
I've posted my position at length. It hasnt involved vb's the greatest. The problem, I think, is that you really don't have anything to offer on the substance other than weird hate filled ranting.

Don't let that stop you though champ, got to do something with your time.
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What you're doing is very boring. You've got nothing to offer, so in defence of your man, you're posing questions to those who are critical as to their understanding of the role. Next time you disagree with a decision the ckub makes, of which there will be many, I'll approach the topic in the same way as you are here. It's just boring old passive defence of your mate VB, as you always have done. I mean, did any of us really understand his leadership value to the team. Which was one of the most used excuses for his selection. Your attitude here is exactly the same.
 
1970crow said:
My concern is that after a year or 2 of being a great development coach he'll replace a guy like Teague who has headed elsewhere. Then we'll have a line coach who's entire background comes from a reasonably adequate but ultimately unsuccessful period of our club.
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and if that does happen in another couple of years he'll be looking for a job on the radio, Bicks MkII.

perhaps he wants to be a career development coach - I presume we have them - that's probably the most if not only reasonable scenario in my view, otherwise he's selling himself short big time.
 
DD#23 said:
very little of my days are spent on it either just so you know, but I do actually care about the club and the decisions they make enough to actually look at them beyond face value.

I just find it telling that all the people who complain about the complainers have very little to offer beyond "trust the club", "we don't know everything that goes on behind closed doors" or the most ridiculous of all "who really cares". If you just want to turn up and wave flags every week that's fine with me, but if you have to get defensive at the slightest criticism of the club maybe just chuck me on ignore for both our sakes.

that's true, but as we know correlation does not imply causation and now you mention it I'd love to know what VB's coaching aspirations actually are.
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Thing with Southerntakeover is that he's a consistent criticiser of the club. But he's a massive supporter of VB, so in this thread ges questioning poster's knowledge if the role and the inner workings in order to support his charge. Half his posts would be subject to the same strategy. I'm actually a big fan of his work, he's one of the few posters that when I see them as being the last post in a thread I head in there to see what they've said. But when it comes to VB, you might as well be talking to Vader .
 
1970crow said:
What you're doing is very boring. You've got nothing to offer, so in defence of your man, you're posing questions to those who are critical as to their understanding of the role. Next time you disagree with a decision the ckub makes, of which there will be many, I'll approach the topic in the same way as you are here. It's just boring old passive defence of your mate VB, as you always have done. I mean, did any of us really understand his leadership value to the team. Which was one of the most used excuses for his selection. Your attitude here is exactly the same.
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Feel free to approach my criticisms of the club in a like way. My approach in this thread is simply: take an evidence and facts based approach to forming criticism. That you find that 'boring' probably says enough.
 
1970crow said:
Thing with Southerntakeover is that he's a consistent criticiser of the club. But he's a massive supporter of VB, so in this thread ges questioning poster's knowledge if the role and the inner workings in order to support his charge. Half his posts would be subject to the same strategy. I'm actually a big fan of his work, he's one of the few posters that when I see them as being the last post in a thread I head in there to see what they've said. But when it comes to VB, you might as well be talking to Vader .
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It's not a question of inner workings.

It's a question of whether you can reasonably form a criticism of the suitability of a person to a role from a position of entire ignorance of even the basics like what does the role entail.

Think what you want of my broader opinions on the club, but they tend to be formed from a position of evidence, for example our measurable lack of success.
 
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