NEUTRALS who is a better player?

[TheCatStevensExperience]

That was actually the hidden purposes of this thread. It was to see how much the BF community was sick Richmond. As predicted Jack would get f all votes despite having the most decorated career of the 3.

But doesn’t help that he has been struggling the last few years whereas Hawkins as gotten better as he’s gotten older.

He doesn't have the most decorated career of the three though, does he?

Jack Riewoldt:

• 3× AFL premiership player: 2017, 2019, 2020
• 3× All-Australian team: 2010, 2015, 2018
• 3× Coleman Medal: 2010, 2012, 2018
• AFL Rising Star nominee: 2008

Tom Hawkins:

• 3× AFL premiership player: 2009, 2011, 2022
• Coleman Medal: 2020
• 5× All-Australian team: 2012, 2019, 2020, 2021, 2022 (c)
• 11x Geelong leading goalkicker: 2012–2022
• 2007 AFL Rising Star: nominee

They're about even in a lot of respects.

Colemans depend a lot on how your forward line structures up. Riewoldt had the lion's share of goal kicking opportunity at Richmond for a long period until Lynch turned up. Hawk had to share it around which denied him (but more likely others like Johnson) from snagging Colemans. On top of that are Hawk's goal assists, while still being the club's leading goal kicker.

As an example, Hawkins shared the forward line with Steve Johnson, James Posiadly in 2010 (was third behind them for goals), again in 2011 with the addition of Menzel etc, 2012 similar.

Riewoldt (62 goals) had Tyrone Vickery (36 goals) in 2011 and his next biggest goal scorer was Andrew Collins with 15 goals in 2010.

A couple more AAs to the big Hawk including captaincy last year in a premiership year.

 

[TheCatStevensExperience]

lol everyone just vote riewoldt and get it over with, dont want these clowns flooding the main board with why martin or riewoldt or edwards or tambling are the greatest players etc.

Relton Roberts is GOAT

 

[Jimmy Yamazaki]

Lewis and Hawkins at the same age.

View attachment 1768994

2013 was the year Hawkins was playing with an injured back. Look at the QF where they rested him with it after saying all year it wouldn't affect him playing and that cost us probably the game.

Hawkins already kicked 62 goals in a year in 2012 before the back injury.

 

[barracoutta]

This is like the 10th poll and every time Richmond lose it's simply because people are haters, envious or whatever other garbage they tell themselves lol.

the bias is strong with this one!!

 

[jakson68]

Had to vote Hawkins as the best of those three as a player.

As for favorite player, Jack is my vote.
There is just something about him that does it for me.

 

[SSwans2011]

Way to leave out the other player that could have obviously been in this poll and just happens to have played for my club.

Yep, that's right. Sam Reid

20

Sam Reid

Age

33

Ht

196cm

Wt

96kg

Pos.

Fwd

Career

Season

Last 5

D

11.3

3star

K

6.3

2star

HB

5.0

4star

M

4.7

4star

T

2.2

4star

G

1.1

4star

D

12.0

3star

K

6.0

2star

HB

6.0

3star

M

4.0

4star

T

0.0

1star

G

1.0

4star

D

9.4

3star

K

5.4

2star

HB

4.0

3star

M

4.4

4star

T

1.8

4star

G

0.4

3star

is better than all of them.

 

[TheCatStevensExperience]

They have this really weird and unhealthy obsession with all things Geelong too which is truly bizarre

Desperate for relevancy and attention from a club with sustained success.

 

[OniAu]

Hawkins
Kennedy
Riewoldt

 

[GWT6]

I have strong opinions on everything and am clearly always right. But in this instance I really don't know.

Kennedy probably the best pure forward - but maybe one dimensional???
Riewoldt was the most unlikable player in the league early on, but the 180 he did in attitude was amazing, turned into a real leader and team player willing to make sacrifices for success.
I like that Hawkins can go in the ruck - but struggle liking him with that haircut, he just grates on me.

If I had to choose a full forward for my team - it would probably come down to needs.

Maybe leaning towards having Hawkins as the second ruck - but can he belt out a post Grand Final tune like Jack???

 

[Strapping Young Lad]

2013 was the year Hawkins was playing with an injured back. Look at the QF where they rested him with it after saying all year it wouldn't affect him playing and that cost us probably the game.

Hawkins already kicked 62 goals in a year in 2012 before the back injury.

2023 is the year Lewis missed 7 games with a strained ACL, playing in a bottom 4 side.

 

[ferrisb]

Not a fan of those saying anyone is easily the best. Their respective records over their career stack up very, very closely and they are all elite forwards so for one to "easily" be the best immediately undersells the others.

Anyway, here is my order and rationale:

1. Tom Hawkins

26

Tom Hawkins

Age

36

Ht

197cm

Wt

105kg

Pos.

Fwd

Career

Season

Last 5

D

12.2

3star

K

7.9

3star

HB

4.4

3star

M

5.5

5star

T

1.9

4star

G

2.1

5star

D

12.7

3star

K

8.6

3star

HB

4.1

3star

M

5.1

5star

T

2.1

3star

G

1.6

5star

D

7.8

2star

K

5.6

3star

HB

2.2

2star

M

4.2

4star

T

1.0

3star

G

2.2

5star

- All hard to split and he had the slowest start but has sustained near peak form for the longest. Now has 5 AA's (2 more than the other boys) and feels like he has an extra string or two more to his bow - with his ability to dominate forward hit outs and his near league leading efforts at providing assists for his team mates. With he and Riewoldt only playing 1 game difference, their stats are very close and very comparable (Hawkins just leading disposals, marks) and Riewoldt just leading goals (by 6) and tackles so the 50 odd goal assist difference, whilst not significant, is a minor point of difference. As Hawkins remains closest to his best now, I expect he will pull a little ahead with wha remains of their careers.

2. Jack Riewoldt - Undersold by many he stacks up very well and very closely to Hawkins. Has 3 AA's and 3 Colemans (compared to 5 and 1 for Hawkins). Has done it in good teams and bad, as the focal point and as the secondary target. Also provides for his team mates (more than people realise) and his peak years have been better than those of Hawkins in my view. Close second.

3. Josh Kennedy - 3rd in this list but no slight on him at all. Has 3 AA's and 2 Colemans. I would argue his peak years were the best of the lot. Only ranked 3rd as he was a pure full forward and kicking goals was his main attribute, yet has fewer goals than the above 2, who both have a slightly more rounded, versatile game (in that they pushed up the ground and played as secondary targets, supplying teammates, yet still kicked more goals). Even then, the fewer goals is only a result of fewer games as his goal average is slightly higher (2.5 vs 2.3)

Good comparison of players very close in standing that will all go down as elite hall of famers.

THIS. Agree with both the ranking and reasoning.

(#3) Kennedy the best pure goal kicker. But more of a one-trick pony (damn good trick, mind you). Don't think he offered as much apart from direct scoreboard impact.

(#1) Hawkins not as elite a goalkicker, but the best overall player.

(#2) Jack somewhat in between the two; in terms of ranking and style.

 

[Honeyboy Wilson]

Lewis and Hawkins at the same age.

View attachment 1768994

Haha come on, man. At least be honest with your cherry picked stats.

Tom Hawkins was coming off a 62 goal, All Australian season the year before. Mitch Lewis is coming off a 37 goal season.

Lewis is great, but you can't use this as evidence that he's as good as (or anywhere near really) Tom Hawkins was at the same age.

Hawkins had also played in 100 games prior to that year compared to Mitch's 50.

 

[Kreuuuzeurns]

Hawkins is the best player of the three. Riewoldt vs Kennedy comes down to stylistic preference. I don't even know which way I'd go.

 

[Del165198]

Where's Ted?

 

[RAPPA]

Riewoldt’s reaction to the poll results

 

[Donakebab]

I did this poll for a mate who didn’t know how to make one. So it’s a bit annoying that’s it’s now been wrecked.

We all wish you didn't know either.

 

[Toump Ass]

 

[Jimmy Yamazaki]

2023 is the year Lewis missed 7 games with a strained ACL, playing in a bottom 4 side.

Hawkins couldn't leap or bend over and pick up the ball in 2013. He kicked 62 goals and was AA the year before and Geelong's BNF winner and almost single handedly won us the 2011 GF in the last.

So if you're saying Lewis was better at the same age based on Hawkin's 2013, you'll probably find that's one of his worst season since his breakout in the 2011 GF. (only 2015 is worse goal wise) And should look at their respective careers to that point.

 

[jabba5114]

Kennedy
Hawkins
Riewoldt

Sent from my motorola edge 30 pro using Tapatalk

 

[Footy Smarts]

Lewis and Hawkins at the same age.

View attachment 1768994

Hawkins had chronic back issues in 2013. It's amazing he's had as long a career as he has cause he looked completely physically stuffed that year. He missed the qualifying final loss to Freo cause he couldn't move.

His 2012 season was AA after coming of age in the 2011 finals series.

 

[BF Tiger]

Do the years Hawkins played as the 2nd ruck before becoming a permanent forward in his 6th season count?

Geelong fans love this myth that Hawkins was second ruck before he became a permanent forward.

2007 - Ottens and Blake +/-800 hit outs, Hawkins 0

2008 - Ottens and Blake +/-850 hit outs, Hawkins 3

2009 - Blake and Mumford +/-740 hit outs, Ottens +/-90, Hawkins 30

2010 - Blake and Ottens +/-670 hit outs, Hawkins 96, West 49

2011 - Ottens 500, West 183, Vardy 104, Hawkins 75.

Regardless, he’s been a great player. There is just no need to sugar-coat his poor early goal-kicking returns.

 

[Mr Meow]

Lewis and Hawkins at the same age.

View attachment 1768994

Hawkins back was stuffed that year. Try 2012.

 

[BF Tiger]

Hawkins couldn't leap or bend over and pick up the ball in 2013. He kicked 62 goals and was AA the year before and Geelong's BNF winner and almost single handedly won us the 2011 GF in the last.

So if you're saying Lewis was better at the same age based on Hawkin's 2013, you'll probably find that's one of his worst season since his breakout in the 2011 GF. (only 2015 is worse goal wise) And should look at their respective careers to that point.

FMD. More revisionist history. In 2013 Hawkins wasn’t in a wheelchair. He played 22 of 25 games, topped Geelong’s goalkicking and had, as described on Geelong’s own website, a niggling back injury ( Hawkins opens up on back ), that did get harder to manage later in the season ( Geelong's Tom Hawkins could play this week but his future is unclear thanks to a back injury ).

 

[naysayer]

It's nice that WC, Richmond and Cats fans have a little safe space on the main board where they can still be relevant.

None of them are much chop now, who cares?

 

[Lingsface]

It's nice that WC, Richmond and Cats fans have a little safe space on the main board where they can still be relevant.

None of them are much chop now, who cares?

Wow this guys weekend hasn’t helped him much haha.

Geelong are the last side to win a premiership.