No key-position players drafted

[krisholio14]

This seems to be the common complaint about our drafting.

I put it out there that I think we've drafted four guys who fit the ethos of the club perfectly - hard working, good attitude, versatile, and good skills.

I think all four of them are capable of playing 200 games for the club, and they are all players who have the skill sets to take over from players who will retire in the next 2-3 years.

I ask those who are bitching about not drafting KPP's, give me one we could have got with any of our picks who are a better chance to turn out a quality league footballers at this stage than any of the guys we drafted?

 

[meto]

Re: No KPP's drafted

I'm hoping for Josh Walker in the rookie, the bloodlines, second generation from the champion granddad Peter, yeah at 195cm or almost 6'5," CHF for the Falcons, great development material would've thought!
GFC in his veins.
Just hope he's there for us.

 

[krisholio14]

Re: No KPP's drafted

If we rate him we'll take him.

If he's still there.

 

[thejester]

Re: No KPP's drafted

B: Smedts Gillies Stringer
HB: Weston Drum Cowan
C: Motlop Hogan Hunt
HF: Duncan Brown Horlin-Smith
F: Menzel Johnson West
R: Simpson Christensen Guthrie
I/C: Vardy Schroeder Bathie ??

That's a pretty tall side, and assumes Pods, Hawkins, Moons, Blake, Ottens, Scarlett, Lonergan and Taylor are all (somehow) playing ones. Is there a need for another KPP? With Drum at CHB maybe, but wouldn't be surprised if we finish the rookie draft with another couple of midfield types.

 

[year of the cat]

Re: No KPP's drafted

B: Smedts Gillies Stringer
HB: Weston Drum Cowan
C: Motlop Hogan Hunt
HF: Duncan Brown Horlin-Smith
F: Menzel Johnson West
R: Simpson Christensen Guthrie
I/C: Vardy Schroeder Bathie ??

That's a pretty tall side, and assumes Pods, Hawkins, Moons, Blake, Ottens, Scarlett, Lonergan and Taylor are all (somehow) playing ones. Is there a need for another KPP? With Drum at CHB maybe, but wouldn't be surprised if we finish the rookie draft with another couple of midfield types.

Certainly not this year. But with Mooney and Ottens on the verge of retirement, Scarlett not too far behind them and Lonergan being barely a KPD prospect it seems reasonable that we will be targeting KPP over the next couple of drafts. With our second Ablett compo pick still up our sleeves we may have the opportunity to take a highish ranked KPP over the next 2-3 drafts.

I like the way though that Wells has gone about it. He obviously had reservations about both McCarthy and Watson as we were in a position to take either of them. I must admit I was slightly surprised when he passed on McCarthy with our second pick. I wonder whether he would have been take with our third in front of Horlin-Smith?

 

[rocker_oz33]

l really don't have a issue with getting mostly mids club needed young mids coming though the ranks.l would have loved one tall defender or a switch type KPP.l don't think the club will get this walker kid he'll be gawn before there pick.

 

[Smarty_]

This seems to be the common complaint about our drafting.

I put it out there that I think we've drafted four guys who fit the ethos of the club perfectly - hard working, good attitude, versatile, and good skills.

I think all four of them are capable of playing 200 games for the club, and they are all players who have the skill sets to take over from players who will retire in the next 2-3 years.

I ask those who are bitching about not drafting KPP's, give me one we could have got with any of our picks who are a better chance to turn out a quality league footballers at this stage than any of the guys we drafted?

I think the club made the right calls re drafting. Most AFL recruiters are of the belief you take the 'best available' player that you can get, regardless of the position they play.

I don't think we should have gone tall for the sake of it. Wells obviously wanted to get the best available player, and picked up those 4 draftees according to this logic. I can understand however, that people are a little concerned about our spine.

With many retirements expected after next season, it appears we will be rebuilding for the next few years anyway, so I reckon we can wait until next years draft to see if we can nab a couple of kp guns. It may even be worth the wait. It may be a blessing in disguise, as in time they may even turn out to be far better than Watson, Mccarthy etc. Hey, at least our midfield is set for the next few years? We should look at it like this and try to be positive. Wells will deliver our kpp for us

 

[Pure_Ownage]

OP is right that we have drafted well and also that the talls available may not have been worth the picks over the guys we drafted at the picks. So we may have done the right thing.

However, in 2012 these are our likely talls on list:
Simpson West Vardy Podsiadly Hawkins B Johnson Brown Taylor Gillies Drum
(I won't include Bathie in that list until we've seen him play some footy)

Now, leaving aside a discussion about whether the quality of the talls is good enough, on a simple numerical basis, that's not enough. 10 tall players, out of 47? I don't think so. The whole point of carrying 47 blokes on your list is to allow you to have substantial depth across all positions, both to cover for injuries, but to have now (e.g. Pods etc) while still planning for the future (Brown etc). The other key point is that you really need more depth in your tall stocks than anywhere else because it's the least interchangeable position....i.e. if you lose a mid sized defender, or mid sized forward, or even midfielder, you can cover that by moving any number of players from any number of positions, particularly when you have a lot of versatile players (Menzel, Duncan, Enright, Chapman, etc etc you get the point) but if you lose Pods, or a ruckman, you can't very well cover that with any of those players. And also, talls take the longest to develop and have a low hit rate (especially with low picks) so it makes sense to draft more than you need because inevietably some won't work out.

So yeah, I won't whinge about what we did draft, or even what we didn't, because I'm not as qualified as Wells to rate the players, but I will say that from a simple numerical list management sort of view, our list is overbalanced, and we need to draft some talls, both in December and over the next couple of years, to restore the balance towards equilibrium.

 

[meto]

Well written, PO.

 

[Pollywaffle]

I wonder these days the way footy is going is there such a thing as a KPP anymore?

 

[you pick one]

OP is right that we have drafted well and also that the talls available may not have been worth the picks over the guys we drafted at the picks. So we may have done the right thing.

However, in 2012 these are our likely talls on list:
Simpson West Vardy Podsiadly Hawkins B Johnson Brown Taylor Gillies Drum
(I won't include Bathie in that list until we've seen him play some footy)

P.O I'm basing this on you having included Gillies and Drum on your talls list at 192 and 191cm respectively.I'm OK with that as a reference point.
Are you retiring Otto,Moons,Scarlo? and Corey if so I think your no the money.
We have three others who are not on either list.
Blake,with Simpson,West,and Vardy lacking experience he will probable survive. l haven't included Hawkins in that lot,still hoping he will become a key forward.
Lonergan and Mackie will both be 28 y/o and still on the list probable just an over site there?
To sum up lets say gone end of 2011 Otto, Moons, Corey,Scarlo? Milburn Wojo, Add to that Ablett and Rooke this year and we should at last have some salary cap room.
And the ace in the hole the G.A compensation pick.
Next year we do the serious shopping.

 

[Belisarius]

Re: No KPP's drafted

B: Smedts Gillies Stringer
HB: Weston Drum Cowan
C: Motlop Hogan Hunt
HF: Duncan Brown Horlin-Smith
F: Menzel Johnson West
R: Simpson Christensen Guthrie
I/C: Vardy Schroeder Bathie ??

That's a pretty tall side, and assumes Pods, Hawkins, Moons, Blake, Ottens, Scarlett, Lonergan and Taylor are all (somehow) playing ones. Is there a need for another KPP? With Drum at CHB maybe, but wouldn't be surprised if we finish the rookie draft with another couple of midfield types.

Looks like a good team on paper and quite tall when you think it is very unlikely we will see Blake in the ones all that often.

The issue is when these taller players maybe up to playing seniors and I think that is OP's point. If one of the KP players in the seniors gets injured the replacements may not be up to replacing them for another season.

Then - yes we still need to draft a few talls in case these talls are not up to it. Also OP's point.

My guess is we will rookie one or two and use our priority pick to get one next year or the year after (more likely). So we better hope we have a good run with injuries with our talls for the next season or two.

From what I have read 3 of the 4 draftees could be really good and one has a lot of upside. Add Menzel, Duncan and THunt - we have quite a few players coming thru - just not tall ones.

We also need either Drum or Gillies to come on this year as well.

So there are a few concerns at present but if we do get a few that come good next season we could be ok. Next season will tell us a lot about our younger players I believe.

 

[Turbocat]

I agree with your assessment PO , the list is probably a little out of balance.
The observation I'd make is that will probably be easier to draft more talls once the oldies , currently in the best 22 , are replaced by some of the fresh kids we currently have. If Gillies, Vardy and Brown come in and replace Scarlett, Ottens and Mooney we have the spot for us play in talls drafted in the 2's. Currently if we draft a couple more talls while we still persist playing the S O and M then we will struggle to give them game time.

 

[Vdubs]

Well written, PO.

Agree. But no BLAKE???

 

[Pure_Ownage]

OP is right that we have drafted well and also that the talls available may not have been worth the picks over the guys we drafted at the picks. So we may have done the right thing.

However, in 2012 these are our likely talls on list:
Simpson West Vardy Podsiadly Hawkins B Johnson Brown Taylor Gillies Drum
(I won't include Bathie in that list until we've seen him play some footy)

P.O I'm basing this on you having included Gillies and Drum on your talls list at 192 and 191cm respectively.I'm OK with that as a reference point.
Are you retiring Otto,Moons,Scarlo? and Corey if so I think your no the money.
We have three others who are not on either list.
Blake,with Simpson,West,and Vardy lacking experience he will probable survive. l haven't included Hawkins in that lot,still hoping he will become a key forward.
Lonergan and Mackie will both be 28 y/o and still on the list probable just an over site there?
To sum up lets say gone end of 2011 Otto, Moons, Corey,Scarlo? Milburn Wojo, Add to that Ablett and Rooke this year and we should at last have some salary cap room.
And the ace in the hole the G.A compensation pick.
Next year we do the serious shopping.

Sorry I didn't specify, yes my list is predicted on Otto and Mooney retiring (certain IMO) and Scarlett deciding he wants to retire when all his mates do (possible). Blake I have no confidence will be here either when his contract is up, and even if he is, if we're relying on Blake as the future we're in trouble, and we should be planning for our future tall drafting on the assumption that some of our current talls won't be here in the future, as inevietably will happen.

Yes no Lonergan was an oversight, so maybe 11 talls not 10 (although I question whether Drum plays genuine tall or not, in which case we'd still only have 10. I consider Mackie the same, not a genuine tall, pinch hit if necessary, but he's essentially a flanker). In any case we're still short on what we need to be, we could get to 1/3 talls on list (15-16) and still not be overbalanced in talls given the reasons I gave.

I agree we will have a fair bit of cap room after next year, some of it will go to long term contracts on sel, bartel, varcoe etc, but even so we will have a fair bit of room yes (especially with new guys moving to the vets list once dasher and scarlo retire).

Because the draft is so compromised next year and weaker than this year's we can't really use the compo pick til 2012, and the problem is young KPP's take 3-4 years to develop so it's 2016 ish before we'll get a consistent impact from them, so between now and then is an issue. Although I suppose this doesn't preclude trading the compo pick for a quality tall should one become available.

 

[Pure_Ownage]

I agree with your assessment PO , the list is probably a little out of balance.
The observation I'd make is that will probably be easier to draft more talls once the oldies , currently in the best 22 , are replaced by some of the fresh kids we currently have. If Gillies, Vardy and Brown come in and replace Scarlett, Ottens and Mooney we have the spot for us play in talls drafted in the 2's. Currently if we draft a couple more talls while we still persist playing the S O and M then we will struggle to give them game time.

Very good point, and this might explain partially the reluctance to draft more talls while we are playing oldies even though the overall list actually doesn't have enough talls as I said.

We should still jag some talls this rookie draft if we can though, given since how long it takes talls to come on, it's fine to focus drafting on them in 2012 when we have quality picks, but we should still try and develop some good ones in the meantime (ala as we have done with ben johnson). Also given our policy of resting the 1st year players each 5th game, even if we draft a couple of rookie talls now, Amos team therefore still won't be super top heavy as one will sit out every so often.

 

[David the Cat]

Hey PO...or anyone else....


I saw Kyle Hartigan was not on anyone's list, and I recall his name being bandied about last year as a good prospect. I think he's about 194cm and plays CHB.. is there a problem with him now, or has he been simply overlooked?

 

[meto]

Agree. But no BLAKE???

Blakey's laughing being at Geelong, no competition.


Seriously, the tall stocks have been seriously compromised over the last few years, especially after that Simpson Laidler Mckenna draft, Wells just carn't pickem. Now I think he's to frightened to try.
Would have thought Balmey might have some clues?

My hope was that they'd draft for 189-192 tall mid flanker types, like the Joel Corey, Scott Pendelbury, Goddard types, to fill a void that's coming.
Namely Dasher, Corey and maybe Mackie.
Of the Draftees, only Smedts comes close in height, and he didn't look 188 on his vids.
Just hope we get Josh Walker or someone 194+ who can play down the spine, afterall, these mids have gotta have someone to kick the thing too.
Pods is our only tall forward at the present.

 

[Belisarius]

History is on your side Meto re Wells and talls - but he has had a few wins with later draft picks or Rookies.

Egan, Mumford and Taylor (early draft pick) come to mind. Maybe Mooney can be included in that as well as Pods.

However we do need to draft tall at some stage soon and hopefully we get 1 or 2 in the Rookie draft coming up.

 

[Claude Balls]

PO, I don't think 1 year is going to make the difference between success and failure, in terms of transitioning the list perfectly for the next era. If this draft represented a much better opportunity to acquire quality medium sized players then that's what they should have done. A quality tall acquired next year will be just as ready, if not moreso, to contribute in the next era than a mediocre tall acquired this year.

 

[TheHonestyPolicy]

Blakey's laughing being at Geelong, no competition.


Seriously, the tall stocks have been seriously compromised over the last few years, especially after that Simpson Laidler Mckenna draft, Wells just carn't pickem. Now I think he's to frightened to try.
Would have thought Balmey might have some clues?

My hope was that they'd draft for 189-192 tall mid flanker types, like the Joel Corey, Scott Pendelbury, Goddard types, to fill a void that's coming.
Namely Dasher, Corey and maybe Mackie.
Of the Draftees, only Smedts comes close in height, and he didn't look 188 on his vids.
Just hope we get Josh Walker or someone 194+ who can play down the spine, afterall, these mids have gotta have someone to kick the thing too.
Pods is our only tall forward at the present.

Smedts is 190cm and Scott has already suggested he is the modern footballer in size and will play in a variety of positions possibly key position when his body is ready if the situation calls for it. Guthrie is 186 but from his vids takes a good grab and has a nice leap, not suggesting he could play kep position but I would be surprised if he couldnt play taller. The most important aspect is both have big engines and can play in the middle, because that is the most pressing issue of modern footy. Not sure there were any KPP's in this draft that can boast that versatility and as was said above if these were the players available in this draft you take them now and go for the taller types when there is actually one to take.

 

[TheHonestyPolicy]

Geelong Cats to chase key talls in rookie draft.

http://www.geelongadvertiser.com.au/article/2010/11/22/227931_gfc.html

But Scott doesnt seem unhappy with the younger talls on the list now.

 

[Maydok]

It's maybe also worth remembering we got Otto for Moloney (and a draft pick - or 2?)

Was gutted at the time about losing Moloney but we had so many good mids it never hurt us.

I guess if these guys all come on, in time we may be in a position to trade for a tall if/when a decent one comes up.

Sure, you'd rather get them now, but if they ain't there, they ain't there.

 

[AngelEyes]

I don't think that anyone can sit here and criticise Geelong's drafting over the short or long term. They have drafted extremely well.

Its all right to sit here and say oh they didn't take any KPPs etc but I'm sure they know what is coming both now and next year. Next year may be stacked with KPPs. For example, there may be equivalent KPPs sitting there in the 50s next year that were sitting there in the 20s and 30s this year. I'm not saying there will be but you have to give them the benefit of the doubt.

I'm not sure they will even go KPP in the Rookie draft.Remember they have already taken Ryan Bathie (who could be called a KPP) and have three other selections. I wouldn't be surprised to see them take best available for the first two at least and they even up with the final pick. I have been hearing some rumours that Geelong will take Jay Neagle. Is 22 and talented but lazy with the hope that the leadership group at Geelong would be able to turn him around. Would also be a very big stuff you to Essendon if he came good.

If Geelong can similar to the current team, build up a strong midfield/flankers etc as a base they will be in a position to contend in a few years. I think this a wise move but thinks obviously can change very quickly but I assume this is Geelong's logic.

 

[tomthabuddah]

From what i saw from Neagle in that round 1 game last year, he certainly has the talent to make it. I realise he is unfit etc, but if his mind is willing, id like to see Geelong take him as a rookie. He could be anything!