Opinion Non-Crows AFL 13: Offseason

[daniel_4tw]

AFLW was needed but they expanded way too early. Like decades too early. If they kept it to the original 8 teams it could’ve grown organically.

We’re seeing that Australia is struggling to field 18 teams with legit professional level footballers, how do you expect the AFLW to be able to find 18 teams worth of players when women interest in AFL would be lucky to be 10% of the mens.

 

[1970crow]

Horses for courses though. Its the highest level that women can play at and its opportunity for women to aspire to and in time possibly earn a real living from. It is a completely different competition and it should be taken as that. The skill is what it is and people who watch it watch it knowing that. It will improve over time like moat sports do.

My only objection is that the narrative out there is that we should hold the mens and womens game equal in terms of naming grandstands after etc. It not anwhere near being equal to the mens game in terms of its status and ts participants should not be put on an equal pedestool

My 2 cents is that the AFL has blundered by bringing the W into the men’s season. It’s just not a product that can compete with that competition. I think it should have remained summer super league type competition until the standard got to an appropriate level. Having to complete the full league whilst the standard was pretty poor has magnified the challenges. Surely between the AFL and the state leagues they could have organised a calendar that has the players completing their state league commitments and having enough rest before they started their AFLW training.

Trying to create full professionalism out of nothingness has compromised the product. As has going to 18 teams, but I can understand why that happened.

 

[1970crow]

A trial game is part of the preparation for a season and is being managed by the club.

A state of origin has no benefit to our club and the only thing that can come out of it is an injury. Its a massive negative for the club.

I don’t think we learn a lot by having Dawson and Rankine running around in a trial game at Mount Barker. The benefit is the hitout, we’re not making strategy changes based on a trial game. And nor does it impact selection as we saw with Nank v Milera last year.

But I accept the argument, but it’s not the one that I responded to. That was purely about injury.

 

[Crow till I die]

My 2 cents is that the AFL has blundered by bringing the W into the men’s season. It’s just not a product that can compete with that competition. I think it should have remained summer super league type competition until the standard got to an appropriate level. Having to complete the full league whilst the standard was pretty poor has magnified the challenges. Surely between the AFL and the state leagues they could have organised a calendar that has the players completing their state league commitments and having enough rest before they started their AFLW training.

Trying to create full professionalism out of nothingness has compromised the product. As has going to 18 teams, but I can understand why that happened.

I suppose the halfway house may have been for the AFL to support the state leagues (even more than they already do) to build the womens comps up. Ie SANFLW etc and establish these leagues for a period of seasons so the cream can rise to the top and then with a fully established and lasting level of state league set up, then establish the AFLW built off of players who had cut their teeth for a good period at state league level. That is obviously long gone as an option now, but had they gone that route and i mean really have established strong state womens leagues, juniors etc, then the national product may have seamlessly formed from that. Just my thoughts

 

[Scorpus]

My 2 cents is that the AFL has blundered by bringing the W into the men’s season. It’s just not a product that can compete with that competition. I think it should have remained summer super league type competition until the standard got to an appropriate level. Having to complete the full league whilst the standard was pretty poor has magnified the challenges. Surely between the AFL and the state leagues they could have organised a calendar that has the players completing their state league commitments and having enough rest before they started their AFLW training.

Trying to create full professionalism out of nothingness has compromised the product. As has going to 18 teams, but I can understand why that happened.

The AFL needed to be more heavy handed around who got the licenses and then limited the competition to those clubs for decades.

Like it's nice that the Bulldogs and Melbourne have supported women's football for so long, but in reality their supporter bases are small and should not have been part of the initial competition.

The AFL should have mandated the initial teams as West Coast, Adelaide, Sydney, Brisbane, Collingwood, Carlton, Richmond, Essendon and maybe extended it to Hawthorn and Geelong. Too bad for the other teams

 

[Truck25]

Top 20?

Unless he cops an injury he will go top 5 at the worst, he's an absolute gun prospect.

OK, my question still stands, didn't they change the rules about bidding on NGA

 

[Truck25]

AFLW was needed but they expanded way too early. Like decades too early. If they kept it to the original 8 teams it could’ve grown organically.

We’re seeing that Australia is struggling to field 18 teams with legit professional level footballers, how do you expect the AFLW to be able to find 18 teams worth of players when women interest in AFL would be lucky to be 10% of the mens.

I liked the AFLW when they played in the off season, gave me some footy to watch, but playing it in the middle of finals is dumb, by the time I'm ready to watch it most of the season is over.

 

[WetCrow1991]

The AFL needed to be more heavy handed around who got the licenses and then limited the competition to those clubs for decades.

Like it's nice that the Bulldogs and Melbourne have supported women's football for so long, but in reality their supporter bases are small and should not have been part of the initial competition.

The AFL should have mandated the initial teams as West Coast, Adelaide, Sydney, Brisbane, Collingwood, Carlton, Richmond, Essendon and maybe extended it to Hawthorn and Geelong. Too bad for the other teams

The expansion of the competition was a massive mistake.

 

[adelaidecrows]

The expansion of the competition was a massive mistake.

Nope, that wasnt the mistake, it was the right choice. The mistake was trying to sell it by running its own race through differentiating it from the AFL season. This was wrong. The AFL should have 100% ran it during the season and played AFLW games as a double header with the AFL and treated the draft in the same manner. This would have increased the number of viewers and ultimately the exposure.

Ever heard of the saying

A camel is a horse a committee designed. Right now the AFLW is a camel! All the right intentions and proven it can work, but the timing and grounds that they play is complete trash and made of nothing more than pro women sentiment rather than clever marketing and growth strategy.

 

[Daniel6]

Nope, that wasnt the mistake, it was the right choice. The mistake was trying to sell it by running its own race through differentiating it from the AFL season. This was wrong. The AFL should have 100% ran it during the season and played AFLW games as a double header with the AFL and treated the draft in the same manner. This would have increased the number of viewers and ultimately the exposure.

Ever heard of the saying

A camel is a horse a committee designed. Right now the AFLW is a camel! All the right intentions and proven it can work, but the timing and grounds that they play is complete trash and made of nothing more than pro women sentiment rather than clever marketing and growth strategy.

No, not at all. The average AFL fan fits into a very different demographic to the average AFLW fan. If the AFLW is played as curtain raiser, the AFLW won’t have their own supporter based and will simply run parallel to the men’s league where most fans turn up at 3/4 time and don’t take any interest in the girls game.

The AFLW have to play at separate venues and alternative time slots. This will give them an opportunity to grow their own supporter base, their own identity and their own league. AFLW is very different to the AFL

 

[TubbsFarquhar]

There's barely enough talent to support 18 men's teams let alone women's. Expansion was definitely too soon, and we're seeing the massive discrepancy.

The NRLW has 12 teams as opposed to the full 17 which looks to be the right model.

 

[adelaidecrows]

No, not at all. The average AFL fan fits into a very different demographic to the average AFLW fan. If the AFLW is played as curtain raiser, the AFLW won’t have their own supporter based and will simply run parallel to the men’s league where most fans turn up at 3/4 time and don’t take any interest in the girls game.

The AFLW have to play at separate venues and alternative time slots. This will give them an opportunity to grow their own supporter base, their own identity and their own league. AFLW is very different to the AFL

As I said lack of exposure. Most AFL fans havent watched AFLW or they saw the first poor seasons where the standard was terrible so they turned away. Hence the mistake. Basically the AFLW thought they could grow the game by appealing to the female market. That was crap. I think you will find most of the 2000 average crowd is probably made up of existing mens club members. So are they really bringing new fans to the game? probably not.

Its a lazy misconception to say its a different demographic. Its a demographic that is a result of poor marketing and product.

Play games at the MCG, Adelaide Oval etc in front of fans arriving for the mens game, they may only see a quarter or the second half but people will see the game. Added exposure is what they need. Playing these games in 2nd rate suburban grounds in front of 2000 people with some of the shittest umpiring you will ever see is not growing the game.

 

[Drugs Are Bad Mackay?]

There's barely enough talent to support 18 men's teams let alone women's. Expansion was definitely too soon, and we're seeing the massive discrepancy.

The NRLW has 12 teams as opposed to the full 17 which looks to be the right model.

Does the NRLW get better crowds and TV ratings?

 

[adelaidecrows]

There's barely enough talent to support 18 men's teams let alone women's. Expansion was definitely too soon, and we're seeing the massive discrepancy.

The NRLW has 12 teams as opposed to the full 17 which looks to be the right model.

Its still relatively new. grassroots is growing all the time. It will get better.

 

[adelaidecrows]

Does the NRLW get better crowds and TV ratings?

the NRL doesnt even get good crowds or tv ratings.

 

[eathb]

That's an absolute disgrace.

How an initiative that is there to address historical injustices and imbalances with First Nations engagement in the game is twisted to include someone who has grown up in urban environments and has had every possible advantage to this point, and only discovered their indigenous identity after years in the game - look, it's absolute garbage from my perspective.

Yet another pathetic gutting of equalization and the draft.

Dougie would be the most ideal NGA/FS prospect and deserves this exception, there would be no NGA/FS prospect ever that has basically been involved in their development with a club since birth like Dougie has through Stuart working at the club for decades post retirement.

There is a limit to how long the AFL can continue to hand out free money to bankrupt corporations. Clearly they are happy to do it for 30 years but 45 years might be a stretch.

P.S. How is the China initiative going?????

Considering AFLW is a money losing business and Port, Gold Coast and St Kilda made money from the China venture, it's a real shame that COVID ended it.

 

[MarcusP2]

Dougie would be the most ideal NGA/FS prospect and deserves this exception, there would be no NGA/FS prospect ever that has basically been involved in their development with a club since birth like Dougie has through Stuart working at the club for decades post retirement.

WTF? Are you being deliberately obtuse?

You've pointed out exactly why he isn't an 'ideal fit' for the NGA criteria.

 

[Crow_68]

There's barely enough talent to support 18 men's teams let alone women's. Expansion was definitely too soon, and we're seeing the massive discrepancy.

The NRLW has 12 teams as opposed to the full 17 which looks to be the right model.

Correct - 8 team league, 1 team in each of Adelaide, Perth, Sydney and SE QLD plus 4 in Melbourne.

No draft, you just sign players in your own state.

Give that 10 years and then expand slowly from there.

 

[spenze]

It's in its fledgling state

The money being injected will fast-track its growth and the standard

Have posted before though that the fans of women's sport need to support it now. Can't wait till the standard gets better or the league becomes more established. Needs to stand on its own two feet well before then.

Passionate about women's sport? Believe in equality? Prove it

Go to games
Watch it on TV
Read media articles

Now. Once in a lifetime opportunity

Don't just put a Bring Back AFLW filter on your social media profiles if it falls over down the track

For the AFLW to grow, it needs to appeal to women and it just doesn't.

This isn't to say that to a woman, women have no interest in it but a large percentage just don't. Women like the AFL for many reasons and those reasons can't be replicated by changing the competitors from men to women.

The AFL had a chance to make it a small competition with a novelty factor to it, with a decent standard that may have appealed but the AFL in it's wisdom and maybe greed, it went the other way.

As my female co worker put it so well and I paraphrase, " I like watching netball, it is a highly skilled sport, women's football looks like under 12s footy". To me, that is the issue, they diluted the skill and women have better things to spend their hard earned on and it isn't a sport that attracts the everyday make fan.

Will this change in a generation... maybe, womens cricket benefited hugely when Ellyse Perry came along but the standard was already in place

 

[Rags_118]

I much preferred the AFLW when is was played prior to men’s competition. By February each year I was desperate for any footy fix (even women) and then followed the Crows AFLW team through to their finals in those years.

Starting the AFLW late in the men’s season, I’m only focussed on the men’s competition and after the men’s finals have finished (particularly this year) I’ve just had enough of footy for the year.

 

[relapse]

Yeah, and I think he only found out last year that there was a link back on his mothers side somewhere

"Somewhere" being the key word.

My suspicion has always been that this is clever tactic that Port have come up with to beat the system in order to get access to him.

Maybe we need to follow the same tactic with the next big player from SA that's linked to one of our clubs, they magically find indigenous heritage overnight and then suddenly qualify as a NGA player.

 

[Drugs Are Bad Mackay?]

As my female co worker put it so well and I paraphrase, " I like watching netball, it is a highly skilled sport, women's football looks like under 12s footy". To me, that is the issue, they diluted the skill and women have better things to spend their hard earned on and it isn't a sport that attracts the everyday make fan.

Unfortunately this is a lie and highlights the bigger issue the AFLW faces

Women (and men) don't like watching netball or women's sport in general. Women like playing netball but these players aren't devouring the game on TV. Ratings aren't reflective of playing numbers.

They aren't bulldozing netball stadiums to boost crowd capacity due to the tens of thousands of people wanting to go every single week.

The AFLW is the chance to prove that there is an appetite for women's sport, that they deserve equal billing, that they deserve professional salaries etc and so far the public have collectively have said No Thank You

And on netball
If a highly skilled, high standard sport with fewer than 18 teams nationally, with a bite-sized 60 minute game that has COPIOUS participant numbers across Australia can't be successful, what chance does a new start up league have?

 

[1970crow]

I suppose the halfway house may have been for the AFL to support the state leagues (even more than they already do) to build the womens comps up. Ie SANFLW etc and establish these leagues for a period of seasons so the cream can rise to the top and then with a fully established and lasting level of state league set up, then establish the AFLW built off of players who had cut their teeth for a good period at state league level. That is obviously long gone as an option now, but had they gone that route and i mean really have established strong state womens leagues, juniors etc, then the national product may have seamlessly formed from that. Just my thoughts

I think they could have done both. And still can.

 

[Cromulant]

As I said lack of exposure. Most AFL fans havent watched AFLW or they saw the first poor seasons where the standard was terrible so they turned away. Hence the mistake. Basically the AFLW thought they could grow the game by appealing to the female market. That was crap. I think you will find most of the 2000 average crowd is probably made up of existing mens club members. So are they really bringing new fans to the game? probably not.

Its a lazy misconception to say its a different demographic. Its a demographic that is a result of poor marketing and product.

Play games at the MCG, Adelaide Oval etc in front of fans arriving for the mens game, they may only see a quarter or the second half but people will see the game. Added exposure is what they need. Playing these games in 2nd rate suburban grounds in front of 2000 people with some of the shittest umpiring you will ever see is not growing the game.

The umpiring wont change in a hurry.

Playing games on full sized ovals doesnt work either, it makes them look even worse.

The talent also isnt there for 18 teams and wont be for a long time.

 

[1970crow]

AFLW was needed but they expanded way too early. Like decades too early. If they kept it to the original 8 teams it could’ve grown organically.

We’re seeing that Australia is struggling to field 18 teams with legit professional level footballers, how do you expect the AFLW to be able to find 18 teams worth of players when women interest in AFL would be lucky to be 10% of the mens.

I don't agree that the standard has gotten worse, it started terrible and hasn't improved. The problem is they're paid way too much given the revenue they generate. Early years I watched every game of ours and some neutral, now my interest is fleeting. You miss the first few games whilst finals are on so you get used to engaging via news service. Interest was very high early despite the very low standard, I think it's lazy to blame te standard.

Another factor is actively turning potential supporters away by trying to equalise the comps. Even in here there was discussion on a statue of Erin Phillips at AO. It's absurd. Maybe Marinoff after she's played for 15 years and has learned to hit a target. But not one of a player that starred in a fledgling comp of amateurs and blow ins from other sports. No doubt she was the best, but there wasn't much to beat.