Oppo Camp Non Giants AFL discussion

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Hmmm, the ongoing (and seemingly never-ending) Hawthorn enquiry seems to have taken its toll on Carko.

www.afl.com.au

'He just needs time': North confident Clarkson will return

Todd Viney details the reasons behind Alastair Clarkson's decision to take leave as coach of North Melbourne
www.afl.com.au www.afl.com.au

NORTH Melbourne has announced coach Alastair Clarkson will take leave from his role, effectively immediately, to "focus on his physical and emotional wellbeing".

Clarkson has been dealing the fallout from the Hawthorn investigation last year, in which allegations of mistreatment of First Nations players were made against him and two other Hawks officials, Chris Fagan and Jason Burt. The news comes just days out from what would have been his 400th game as senior coach, against Sydney on Saturday.

Assistant Brett Ratten will coach the Kangaroos in the interim.

North Melbourne football boss Todd Viney will address the media at 12pm AEST on Thursday.
 

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Giant Pete said:
Thank goodness he passed on us.
Click to expand...
He pulled out of the race before we finished the process. I wonder if he would have been chosen if available.
 
Goodness me, what a mess the Hawthorm Racism Saga has become.

Article from the ABC with one of the three accused, Jason Burt, acknowledging one of the incidents ... but disputing the detail ... while denying other incidents. Probably should just be shutting up and leaving it inside the process - even though that is significantly flawed.

Former Hawks staffer says he 'overstepped the mark' in incident with First Nations player, but has nothing to apologise for

A former Hawthorn staff member at the centre of the AFL's investigation of the alleged mistreatment of the club's First Nations players says he has "nothing to say sorry for" but admitted he and other coaches engaged in behaviour that "overstepped the mark" and made him feel "uncomfortable". In an interview with The Age, former Hawthorn football club welfare manager Jason Burt — one of three men at the centre of allegations made in the Hawthorn review — said he had would not be apologising to former players and their partners but admitted he regretted an incident in which he accompanied coaches Alastair Clarkson and Chris Fagan to the home of 'Zac' and 'Kylie', a First Nations player and his pregnant fiancé. He admitted that Clarkson and Fagan had been present at the intervention at the player's home, that it was "over the top" and "wasn't a pretty discussion", but claimed that Zac had "delivered the news" himself.

And the response from the complainants, calling BS:

www.smh.com.au

‘Disgusted’: Couple rejects Jason Burt’s account in Hawks racism saga

A family at the centre of the Hawthorn racism case has taken aim at former Hawks welfare manager Jason Burt. This came as Hawthorn president Andy Gowers insisted the crisis had to be resolved fairly but quickly.
www.smh.com.au www.smh.com.au

Members of a family at the centre of the Hawthorn racism case say they are disgusted with former player welfare manager Jason Burt’s version of events and that there is no end in sight for a case that has plunged the AFL into turmoil.

Lawyer Dr Judy Courtin released a detailed statement on Saturday on behalf of her clients under the pseudonyms “Zac” and “Kylie”. Courtin heavily criticised Burt for comments he made in an interview with The Age relating to the 2022 Hawthorn cultural safety review – particularly Burt’s retelling of when Zac told his then partner and now wife Kylie their relationship was over. A source independent of Courtin with knowledge of the events, who would not speak publicly for confidentiality reasons, said Fagan went with Burt and Clarkson to the house but stayed outside. Burt was contacted on Saturday and told about the statement, but did not wish to respond. His lawyer Tony Hargraves was also contacted for comment.

And the whole process seems on the brink of complete collapse:

MSN

www.msn.com

There were recent reports that the AFL were going to close the investigation down, and declare the 3 men "exonerated":

Report: AFL set to shut down Hawthorn racism investigation, all parties likely to be exonerated

An end to the highly criticised process could be imminent.
www.sen.com.au www.sen.com.au

The bombshell report, published by The Age’s Jake Niall, cites two sources not authorized to speak publicly stating that the trio are likely to be exonerated. It’s also understood that proposed mediation, which was reported likely to take place in Adelaide next week (which was the preceding news report), is very unlikely to be attended by Clarkson, Fagan and Burt. The report states that at this stage, mediation will not occur as the AFL looks to shut down the panel.

No matter if you support a particular side/view, or simply want the truth to be found, I think everyone would agree that this has been a complete cluster from Hawthorn and AFL House. Accusations on both sides, complainants and respondents all feeling violated and lack of fairness in process and outcome. Honestly, IMHO, if AFL House just closes this down and declares the three men "exonerated", there will be no basis for that because the accusations haven't been tested properly, and it will come across as a massive whitewash & sweep-in-under-the-carpet. However, I don't know how they now resurrect the process given the bad blood on both sides.

Absolute cluster*!
 
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Giant Strides said:
Goodness me, what a mess the Hawthorm Racism Saga has become.

Article from the ABC with one of the three accused, Jason Burt, acknowledging one of the incidents ... but disputing the detail ... while denying other incidents. Probably should just be shutting up and leaving it inside the process - even though that is significantly flawed.

Former Hawks staffer says he 'overstepped the mark' in incident with First Nations player, but has nothing to apologise for

A former Hawthorn staff member at the centre of the AFL's investigation of the alleged mistreatment of the club's First Nations players says he has "nothing to say sorry for" but admitted he and other coaches engaged in behaviour that "overstepped the mark" and made him feel "uncomfortable". In an interview with The Age, former Hawthorn football club welfare manager Jason Burt — one of three men at the centre of allegations made in the Hawthorn review — said he had would not be apologising to former players and their partners but admitted he regretted an incident in which he accompanied coaches Alastair Clarkson and Chris Fagan to the home of 'Zac' and 'Kylie', a First Nations player and his pregnant fiancé. He admitted that Clarkson and Fagan had been present at the intervention at the player's home, that it was "over the top" and "wasn't a pretty discussion", but claimed that Zac had "delivered the news" himself.

And the whole process seems on the brink of complete collapse:

MSN

www.msn.com

There were recent reports that the AFL were going to close the investigation down, and declare the 3 men "exonerated":

Report: AFL set to shut down Hawthorn racism investigation, all parties likely to be exonerated

An end to the highly criticised process could be imminent.
www.sen.com.au www.sen.com.au

The bombshell report, published by The Age’s Jake Niall, cites two sources not authorized to speak publicly stating that the trio are likely to be exonerated. It’s also understood that proposed mediation, which was reported likely to take place in Adelaide next week (which was the preceding news report), is very unlikely to be attended by Clarkson, Fagan and Burt. The report states that at this stage, mediation will not occur as the AFL looks to shut down the panel.

No matter if you support a particular side, or simply want the truth to be found, I think everyone would agree that this has been a complete cluster from Hawthorn and AFL House. Accusations on both sides, complainants and respondents all feeling violated and lack of fairness in process and outcome. Honestly, IMHO, if AFL House just closes this down and declares the three men "exonerated", there will be no basis for that because the accusations haven't been tested properly, and it will come across as a massive whitewash & sweep-in-under-the-carpet. However, I don't know how they now resurrect the process given the bad blood on both sides.

Absolute cluster*!
Click to expand...
To me, it's pretty obvious the AFL and Hawthorn have been trying to protect Clarkson.

He's a powerful white man with a sense of entitlement. There is a clear imbalance between him and the young indigenous couple.

It's gone on for this long because they couldn't figure out what to do. Jason Burt's torturous remarks confirm something inappropriate was said.

It's too late now for a whitewash.
 
Well. There you go. AFL has whitewashed the Hawks enquiry. AFL has "reached an agreement with players and families". Huh.

www.abc.net.au

AFL shuts down Hawthorn racism review as First Nations players seek to 'resolve all differences'

An independent panel investigating allegations of racism at the Hawthorn Football Club concludes, making no findings against former senior coaches and managers.
www.abc.net.au www.abc.net.au

Hawthorn racism review winds up, with no adverse findings brought against ex-senior management

An independent panel investigating allegations of racism at the Hawthorn Football Club has concluded, making no adverse findings against former senior coaches and managers.

Speaking at a press conference, AFL CEO Gillon McLachlan said the First Nations players and families involved in the probe had reached an agreement and "wish to resolve all differences with the AFL".

As a result, no charges or adverse findings have been brought against former coaches Alastair Clarkson and Chris Fagan, and ex-welfare manager Jason Burt.

More to come.
 

MSN

www.msn.com

The AFL Players’ Association has criticised the league for its “flawed” process of investigating allegations of racism at Hawthorn, saying it could make people hesitant to report concerns in future.

In a statement the AFLPA’s chief executive, Paul Marsh, said it had “serious concerns about the AFL’s process” which was “not truly independent”.

“The allegations raised by players and their families as part of Hawthorn’s Binmada Report were extremely serious and disturbing in nature and required an independent, wide-ranging, well-resourced and culturally safe process,” Marsh said. The issue “presents the industry with an urgent need to reflect on whether the right industry-wide reporting systems, commitments and levels of accountability exist to ensure this does not happen again”, he said.

The AFLPA has proposed a human rights policy and framework to the league as part of ongoing CBA negotiations.
 

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Giant Strides said:

MSN

www.msn.com

The AFL Players’ Association has criticised the league for its “flawed” process of investigating allegations of racism at Hawthorn, saying it could make people hesitant to report concerns in future.

In a statement the AFLPA’s chief executive, Paul Marsh, said it had “serious concerns about the AFL’s process” which was “not truly independent”.

“The allegations raised by players and their families as part of Hawthorn’s Binmada Report were extremely serious and disturbing in nature and required an independent, wide-ranging, well-resourced and culturally safe process,” Marsh said. The issue “presents the industry with an urgent need to reflect on whether the right industry-wide reporting systems, commitments and levels of accountability exist to ensure this does not happen again”, he said.

The AFLPA has proposed a human rights policy and framework to the league as part of ongoing CBA negotiations.
Click to expand...
After the effort to protect Clarkson, there's about as much chance of truly independent investigation processes as there is of truly independent umpiring arrangements.
 
Well, here's the response from the complainants - and they've outed their own identities. Reading this, I think they just lost patience & faith in the AFL process actually doing anything; AFL was just trying to do damage control versus achieving a just outcome.


The families at the centre of the Hawthorn racism scandal have been revealed as their case heads to the Australian Human Rights commission. A letter from the families of Cyril Rioli, Jermaine Miller-Lewis, Carl Peterson and former staffer Leon Egan have described their eight-month-long ordeal as a “public s**tshow” none of them deserved.

The letter states that the parties at the centre of the allegations, including current North Melbourne coach Alastair Clarkson, current Brisbane Lions coach Chris Fagan and Jason Burt will be subject to proceedings in the Human Rights Commission to “listen to the truths that they don’t want to hear.”

The entire text of the letter is here:

Open letter from Carl Peterson, Cyril Rioli, Shannyn Ahsam-Rioli, Jermaine and Montanah Miller-Lewis and Leon Egan

We are some of the Indigenous families who endured racism at the Hawthorn Football Club.

We were separated from our families.

We were told an unborn child would ruin our futures.

We were treated as special projects and control of our lives was taken from us. We told our truths in confidence, because we believed that it would bring change. And because we needed to heal and move on.

That confidence was betrayed.

We never asked for money.

All we ever wanted was to sit with the coaches and officials we looked up to, and who had such control over our lives and our futures, and make them understand what we heard.

What impact it had on our lives.

And to listen to them tell us their own truths – even why they thought they were helping us.

And we are gutted that these so-called AFL role models weren’t prepared to listen to our truths through mediation. We have always had the courage to listen to their truths too. That is our way.

We were never scared of being named. We were never scared of what they would throw at us. We were worried about impacts on others. It doesn’t change our truth.

None of us deserved this public shitshow – including them.

But they have made their choice, and we will now bring them to a Human Rights Commission conciliation to listen to the truths that they don‘t want to hear. And if they still won’t listen and learn then it will end up in the Federal Court where we will tell our truths in the witness box. But they will hear us one way or another.

We also believe that with the passing of time that the Hawthorn Football Club will acknowledge that our suffering and pain was real.

We reached an agreement with the AFL not out of fear, but strength, because the AFL finally apologised to all First Nations players for racism in football.

They acknowledged our pain and hurt when we were at Hawthorn. They made a legally binding promise to us to combat racism in football. And the game will be safer for all First Nations families because of it.

These blokes who changed the course of our lives have never been exonerated by the AFL. The Panel never made any findings because it was shut down.

We previously allowed these people to use their power to control our lives. It should never happen again.

MSN

www.msn.com
 
Giant Strides said:
Well, here's the response from the complainants - and they've outed their own identities. Reading this, I think they just lost patience & faith in the AFL process actually doing anything; AFL was just trying to do damage control versus achieving a just outcome.


The families at the centre of the Hawthorn racism scandal have been revealed as their case heads to the Australian Human Rights commission. A letter from the families of Cyril Rioli, Jermaine Miller-Lewis, Carl Peterson and former staffer Leon Egan have described their eight-month-long ordeal as a “public s**tshow” none of them deserved.

The letter states that the parties at the centre of the allegations, including current North Melbourne coach Alastair Clarkson, current Brisbane Lions coach Chris Fagan and Jason Burt will be subject to proceedings in the Human Rights Commission to “listen to the truths that they don’t want to hear.”

The entire text of the letter is here:

Open letter from Carl Peterson, Cyril Rioli, Shannyn Ahsam-Rioli, Jermaine and Montanah Miller-Lewis and Leon Egan

We are some of the Indigenous families who endured racism at the Hawthorn Football Club.

We were separated from our families.

We were told an unborn child would ruin our futures.

We were treated as special projects and control of our lives was taken from us. We told our truths in confidence, because we believed that it would bring change. And because we needed to heal and move on.

That confidence was betrayed.

We never asked for money.

All we ever wanted was to sit with the coaches and officials we looked up to, and who had such control over our lives and our futures, and make them understand what we heard.

What impact it had on our lives.

And to listen to them tell us their own truths – even why they thought they were helping us.

And we are gutted that these so-called AFL role models weren’t prepared to listen to our truths through mediation. We have always had the courage to listen to their truths too. That is our way.

We were never scared of being named. We were never scared of what they would throw at us. We were worried about impacts on others. It doesn’t change our truth.

None of us deserved this public shitshow – including them.

But they have made their choice, and we will now bring them to a Human Rights Commission conciliation to listen to the truths that they don‘t want to hear. And if they still won’t listen and learn then it will end up in the Federal Court where we will tell our truths in the witness box. But they will hear us one way or another.

We also believe that with the passing of time that the Hawthorn Football Club will acknowledge that our suffering and pain was real.

We reached an agreement with the AFL not out of fear, but strength, because the AFL finally apologised to all First Nations players for racism in football.

They acknowledged our pain and hurt when we were at Hawthorn. They made a legally binding promise to us to combat racism in football. And the game will be safer for all First Nations families because of it.

These blokes who changed the course of our lives have never been exonerated by the AFL. The Panel never made any findings because it was shut down.

We previously allowed these people to use their power to control our lives. It should never happen again.

MSN

www.msn.com
Click to expand...
It's the end of Clarkson. Hard to see how he can survive something like this.

It might also take down Fagan, depending on what is said at the HRC.

An inglorious end to the virtue-signalling McLachlan era.
 
Land of the Giants said:
It's the end of Clarkson. Hard to see how he can survive something like this.

It might also take down Fagan, depending on what is said at the HRC.

An inglorious end to the virtue-signalling McLachlan era.
Click to expand...
I don't see how much of what is said here possibly affects Cyril. Yes, Kennett was disrespectful to his partner and that is wrong, but it's not as if 100% of Hawthorn people where like Kennett. Again, if it was say 3 people out of 60 that is 3 too many, but why trash the entire club. They might deserve it ( hawthorn clubs previuous management) of course, I don't know what went on.
 
sydney_gws said:
I don't see how much of what is said here possibly affects Cyril. Yes, Kennett was disrespectful to his partner and that is wrong, but it's not as if 100% of Hawthorn people where like Kennett. Again, if it was say 3 people out of 60 that is 3 too many, but why trash the entire club. They might deserve it ( hawthorn clubs previuous management) of course, I don't know what went on.
Click to expand...
I don't think that you can say that they wanted to "trash the whole club" on the evidence seen to date (but that's limited, so may be an inaccurate conclusion). The point was that Hawthorn asked past players about their experiences (in terms of working out how the club does better in the future) - and they answered. I do believe that the idea was reasonable to begin with; just executed horribly. The club seemed to have no plan in place if accusations above a specific threshold were uncovered, or if the interviewed players raised specific requests (such as apology, reparations, ongoing support etc) & little/no support planned for the respondents. As if they thought Cyril's complaints that supposedly kicked it off were a "one off"; or had no substance. Hawthorn seemed not to have spoken with AFL House beforehand to put any contingency plans in place for any of these events. So, when some issues have arisen that someone at Hawthorn seemed beyond the level that they were prepared to deal with, they simply threw it to AFL House. It's called "throwing a dead cat over the fence", and (like the name suggests) it stinks!
 
Giant Strides said:
Well, here's the response from the complainants - and they've outed their own identities. Reading this, I think they just lost patience & faith in the AFL process actually doing anything; AFL was just trying to do damage control versus achieving a just outcome.


The families at the centre of the Hawthorn racism scandal have been revealed as their case heads to the Australian Human Rights commission. A letter from the families of Cyril Rioli, Jermaine Miller-Lewis, Carl Peterson and former staffer Leon Egan have described their eight-month-long ordeal as a “public s**tshow” none of them deserved.

The letter states that the parties at the centre of the allegations, including current North Melbourne coach Alastair Clarkson, current Brisbane Lions coach Chris Fagan and Jason Burt will be subject to proceedings in the Human Rights Commission to “listen to the truths that they don’t want to hear.”

The entire text of the letter is here:

Open letter from Carl Peterson, Cyril Rioli, Shannyn Ahsam-Rioli, Jermaine and Montanah Miller-Lewis and Leon Egan

We are some of the Indigenous families who endured racism at the Hawthorn Football Club.

We were separated from our families.

We were told an unborn child would ruin our futures.

We were treated as special projects and control of our lives was taken from us. We told our truths in confidence, because we believed that it would bring change. And because we needed to heal and move on.

That confidence was betrayed.

We never asked for money.

All we ever wanted was to sit with the coaches and officials we looked up to, and who had such control over our lives and our futures, and make them understand what we heard.

What impact it had on our lives.

And to listen to them tell us their own truths – even why they thought they were helping us.

And we are gutted that these so-called AFL role models weren’t prepared to listen to our truths through mediation. We have always had the courage to listen to their truths too. That is our way.

We were never scared of being named. We were never scared of what they would throw at us. We were worried about impacts on others. It doesn’t change our truth.

None of us deserved this public shitshow – including them.

But they have made their choice, and we will now bring them to a Human Rights Commission conciliation to listen to the truths that they don‘t want to hear. And if they still won’t listen and learn then it will end up in the Federal Court where we will tell our truths in the witness box. But they will hear us one way or another.

We also believe that with the passing of time that the Hawthorn Football Club will acknowledge that our suffering and pain was real.

We reached an agreement with the AFL not out of fear, but strength, because the AFL finally apologised to all First Nations players for racism in football.

They acknowledged our pain and hurt when we were at Hawthorn. They made a legally binding promise to us to combat racism in football. And the game will be safer for all First Nations families because of it.

These blokes who changed the course of our lives have never been exonerated by the AFL. The Panel never made any findings because it was shut down.

We previously allowed these people to use their power to control our lives. It should never happen again.

MSN

www.msn.com
Click to expand...
Strong statement
 
Hi, folks, i come in peace! I am a Sydney based Dockers supporter who has never watched a game in Giants stadium before, and I was hoping for information regarding oppo supporter seating before I got tickets for the game in two weeks. I wasn’t sure which thread to put this in, so am taking a chance and posting in this one so the query can be seen. Apologies for the intrusion.

would any of you good people be able to tell me what section would our cheer squad and most of our purple supporters be in? Will likely be watching the game alone, so I don’t want to be a lone purple fan girl in the midst of all you orange folk as I tend to be a bit Roy Kent when I watch the games.

good luck on your game next week!
 
Grape Bear said:
Hi, folks, i come in peace! I am a Sydney based Dockers supporter who has never watched a game in Giants stadium before, and I was hoping for information regarding oppo supporter seating before I got tickets for the game in two weeks. I wasn’t sure which thread to put this in, so am taking a chance and posting in this one so the query can be seen. Apologies for the intrusion.

would any of you good people be able to tell me what section would our cheer squad and most of our purple supporters be in? Will likely be watching the game alone, so I don’t want to be a lone purple fan girl in the midst of all you orange folk as I tend to be a bit Roy Kent when I watch the games.

good luck on your game next week!
Click to expand...
Unlike most grounds , you'll have free run once in the ground. Move around and sit where you like excluding our members area. Usually there is more opposition fans at the North Eastern pocket
 
Grape Bear said:
I was hoping for information regarding oppo supporter seating before I got tickets for the game in two weeks.

would any of you good people be able to tell me what section would our cheer squad and most of our purple supporters be in? Will likely be watching the game alone, so I don’t want to be a lone purple fan girl in the midst of all you orange folk as I tend to be a bit Roy Kent when I watch the games.
Click to expand...
Giants cheer squad is always 216. Oppo cheer squad is down the video board end. So, probably 242 will get you close to them. But there will be purple jerseys scattered throughout. Just avoid the Giants members' areas, or some of the posters here will complain about it in the autopsy thread! ;)

GWS Stadium.png
 
Giant Strides said:
Giants cheer squad is always 216. Oppo cheer squad is down the video board end. So, probably 242 will get you close to them. But there will be purple jerseys scattered throughout. Just avoid the Giants members' areas, or some of the posters here will complain about it in the autopsy thread! ;)

View attachment 1706416
Click to expand...
Thank you! I’m still deciding whether to go as I am also on call that weekend, but am looking at taking a chance as I only live a suburb away! 😂

edit: I just realised that there is a black pink concert on the same day as the game, which is weighing into my not Chancing it... have you guys had games when there are other events on in the precinct? does that have a big impact on parking and transport? Even looked into staying at the local hotels, but everything is booked out!
 
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