nsw selectors do it again

[Bloodstained Angel]

thats right Easty - just resort to idotic abuse when you can't argue the point.

feel better now ?

 

[Frodo]

Originally posted by Bloodstained Angel:


This abduction was GOVERNMENT POLICY not like the common criminal law where the individual is responsible. In this case the individual is acting as an agent of the state, so it is the state that bears responsibility - not the individual.

And, as we all know, the state is a continuim, passing from one elected representative to another. Governments come and go but the state remains constant. So, by implication, the state in the present bears responsibility for the actions of the state in the past because they are the same thing.


As for cannibalism - please show me where you have hard irrefutable evidence that just one single Aboriginal person killed and ate a European settler.

please - I would really like to know.

ABDUCTION was not government policy. Show me any records that it was ever the Governments policy to ABDUCT aboriginal children. It is ablsolute propaganda. Do you really think that our forefathers were evil?
Government may be continued as time passes but each government is elected by the people of the time and are responsible for their actions only. It is crass to suppose that the current government bares any responsibility for the problems caused by the Keating Government and should the liberals be defeated then the actions they have taken whilst in office are not the responsibility of the new government. Your case for a continuum of responsibility by successive governments is fataly flawed.
With respect to Germany the apology came in 1946 by the same generation that realised they had given power to a criminal government and the same people that voted Hitler in aplogised. i see no wrong in that.
You would be well advised to reflect upon who and what you are, and your purpose in life. I mean this in a very positive way. From the time of birth a person is programmed, just like a computer, how to think. Firstly by parents then by teachers, peers and other authoratitive people. The result is that the decisions and judgements you make in life are not really your own. They are the result of programming. Much of this programming is correct but much of it is really worth challenging because it comes from mistruths and propaganda. Finding yourself is a very interesting and rewarding venture. It involves challenging your programming and becoming someone other than a creation of others.
The aboriginal situation therefore needs to be thought out and the propaganda taught by the socialist teaching lobby needs careful attention.
The whole 'sorry' issue is immaterial to the welfare of Aboriginals and so called reconciliation. I will scan and post a response on this issue from an aboriginal leader that highlights this ( it may take a couple of days).
What needs to be addressed is what is meant by 'reconciliation'. The meaning is to bring together again. As Aboriginals have never been at one with the other Australians we can drop the 'again' and call it 'conciliation'.
So what does 'bringing together' mean? In my opinion it means living together as one Australian nation. What does it mean to others? My experience with aboriginals is that they don't want white help. They don't want to be part of one nation. They want a seperate identity and different laws etc for themselves. Will saying 'sorry' change those feelings? If todays taxpayers shell out millions of dollars in compensation for wrongs attributed to our forefathers will it bring us together as one nation? Australia has given billions of dollars to aboriginals but where does the money go? To promote alcoholism? To fund lawyers who try to get more money? To arrange protests?
Who didn't get any? The poor aboriginals that need healthcare, jobs etc,. Those that need to be part of one nation.
So the conciliation (or reconciliation) path that is supported by many (ie sorry and give them some more money) will do nothing more than make the situation worse. Is that what you really want. Or is there an alternative where we say 'We are all Australians and will be treated alike. History is history, let's go forward as one. Join with the rest of Australians and enjoy the future as one nation' Let the aboriginal politicians put their differences aside and say 'for the sake of our poor people let us become one nation, repecting each other and the law so our children can be educated and our sick healed. Our youth be able to find work and not prisons'
Life is about people, not ideals.

I feel very strongly about this subject because I feel for the suffering of the vast majority of aborigines, I really do care for them. On the other hand the actions of bodies such as the ALS and the way Labor uses aborigines as political pawns I find sickening.

Give me a scenario where saying sorry and throwing money at the problem will bring success and I will change my mind. There is no harm in saying you're wrong.

And one futher question. How much money are you personaly prepared to pay in compensation to the aboriginals. $20,000 ? Cash or a government loan? I mean if we want to say sorry and give compensation it has to be everyone's responsibility to pay an equal amount, not just business or the so called rich. A flat $20,000 from everyone over 18 should keep them quiet for a few years. Hands up who's prepared to pay!


As for the aboriginal cannibals I will look things up and see what I can find. I've read thousands of books and articles on aboriginals so it's not just acase of picking a book off a shelf. Interstingly I can tell you that the Cannibal Aboriginal actually preferred to eat indonesians rather than Europeans. Apparantly indonesians eat a diet of mainly rice and vegies versus the European meat diet. Human flesh fed by the rice and vegies actualy tasted better.

 

[Frodo]

An exerpt forom a letter written by the CEO of the Aboriginal Legal Service, WA.:-

For some people it has been educative. These are the people who have been comfortable in the belief that Australia is a nation for all Australians, that it is a nation of fair-minded and reasonable people. The number of racists and bigots who have emerged has shattered this illusion.
It is important to consider a few points about this. Culture is very important to Aboriginal people. While it is great that the ceremonies of the Games were used as an opportunity for our culture to be exposed to the world, the claims of Aboriginal people to a greater role in the political life of this country go beyond expressions of culture. Listen to the words of the song Treaty by Yothu Yindi. They argue that there was a system of law before colonisation. This needs to be recognised and incorporated into Australia's legal system.
Reconciliation is more than sharing pride in sporting prowess. It is more than liking the same music. It is about a movement towards a shared fuure. On one side, this movement is about recognising that there is a need for social and political institutions that reflect the unique heritage of this continent, that' embrace the traditions of Aboriginal history.
On the other side, it is the recognition that these institutions must also reflect the dynamic of the Western system that has been imposed on the continent, and that there is hatred on both sides that must be overcome.
The Olympics have exposed the truth of Australian reconciliation: there are many people who are opposed to the recognition of the rightful place of Aboriginal people in the political life of this country.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

These points are clear

1)claims of Aboriginal people to a greater role in the political life of this country.

This demand means the end of democracy. It is a demand for aboriginals to share government without having to be elected in a proportionate way.

2)there was a system of law before colonisation. This needs to be recognised and incorporated into Australia's legal system.

This is a demand to change Australias legal system to reflect values of the aboriginals in the 19th century.

3)social and political institutions that reflect the unique heritage of this continent, that' embrace the traditions of Aboriginal history.

again, a statement of seperation. Not conciliation.

4)the rightful place of Aboriginal people in the political life of this country.

Aboriginals now have as many rights to political life as any one else. What this clearly refers to are rights that go beyond those afforded to non Aboriginal Australians.

There is no doubt in my mind that the writer of the article himself is both a racist and a bigot. However this is the mindset of the aboriginal leaders and until it changes conciliation is impossible.

 

[eastaugh36]

frodo, your 100 % right,

bob hawke = promises everything but delivees bugger all !