Our first pick

[Vader]

From what I have read on the D&T thread, Hurley would be an outstanding prospect for the Crows. Capable of holding down almost any KPP position at either end of the ground. However, he has generally been played in defence, where we have Bock & Rutten who look solid for the next 5 years at least. Hurley's a primary KPP, not a 3rd defender, so he's not really a replacement for Bassett/Stevens.

I do have some concerns about McKernan though. How tall is he? Has he played much footy as a KPP forward, or is (like Sellar) a ruckman who will need re-training to play a forward role? From memory I read 196cm, though I could be wrong. At that height he's likely to suffer from the Sellar syndrome - aka being a "tweener". Too tall to play a true KPP, too short to be a ruckman.

By all accounts though, he does have outstanding athleticism, so he could become a decent KPP. The nearest comparison I could think of would be Patrick Ryder - too short to be a ruckman and has failed abysmally when tried in that position. However, he looks VERY good when played at CHB instead.

Mind you, it's not like I've ever laid eyes on any of these players.

Who would be the best KPP forward likely to be available at #5 or #6? Obviously Watts would be the dream, but we all know that's not going to eventuate.

 

[-VC-]

So why isn't that his regular position. No disrepect to VC as his knowledge in this area is second to none. But we desperately need a tall KP forward or gun midfielder. I just hope we don't waste another 1st rounder on a player who has played position X for the majority of his career but we think we can turn him into something we so desperately need - ie gun forward - ie Sellar.

Don't get me wrong, if we need a gun tall backman than he sounds a perfect fit. But lets not try and turn a gun backman into a gun forward. We have been there done that many times int eh past and failed ie Rutten/Bock. If we intend to have a quick/painless rebuild, we can't afford to waste anymore 1st round draft picks.

Hurley plays where he plays on a needs basis. He got pigeon holed into playing full back last year for Vic Metro. It's difficult for bottom aged players to make their state side so Hurley found a niche role where he excelled and made All Australian. Come 2008 I have no doubt that his name was first on the team sheet in the same position he had so much success the year prior. For the record, I have never seen him play FB for the Northern Knights - only for Vic Metro.

For the Knights he mainly plays as CHB, once again this is because of a needs basis. Northern are very ordinary this year and he holds the back line together when he's in that team. They have no shortage of KP forwards though with a few having draft potential either this year or next year.

Last year the Knights leading goal kicker Tim Bongetti got injured and missed a few weeks, so the Knights swung Hurley forward for a return of 3, 1, 6 and 3. The one goal game was on a day where each side kicked six goals and I notice that Hurley got named second best for the Knights (must've been pissing down).

When Bongetti came back they used the two of them in the same forward line and both kicked four. I'm only working off the numbers and the position report on the TAC Cup site for some of these, but I was at his 6 goal haul against QLD and that 4 goal game alongside Bongetti and he did not look like a backman playing forward. He looked every bit a legitimate CHF.

He's mainly played as a back because that's where he's most needed. I would like to see him play up forward more often just so more people can see what I have seen. I know I've said it before, but I think I rate him more as a CHF. I definitely understand your concerns about trying to make a player something he isn't, but I think Hurley is one of those rare cases where he could make it at either end of the ground.

Imagine a spine consisting of Rutten, Bock, Hurley and Tippett. You'd have almost 400kg of man power! Not to mention this Walker kid I've heard so much about leading out from the square.

 

[Alex99]

It doesn’t really matter who we pick in this draft because they will automatically be deemed not ready to play AFL by Neil Craig and be stuck in the SANFL for the next 5 years.

We may as trade that first round pick to Sydney for Nick Davis as he can walk in and play mediocre football – just the sort of player Neil loves, someone who he can reinvent.

Edit – i am being a we bit facetious

 

[Mismatched]

Imagine a spine consisting of Rutten, Bock, Hurley and Tippett. You'd have almost 400kg of man power! Not to mention this Walker kid I've heard so much about leading out from the square.

Never heard of him. Can he play up forward?

From what I've heard/read Hurley would be a great pick up and we'd have to be pretty happy with him either as a forward or a defender.

Re Vader's comment with Mckernan I have the same fears, he keeps getting talked up as a ruckman, but from my memory he is similar to Sellar in that he won't be tall enough to ruck and will have to be a KPP.

The other 2 I'd be really interested in picking up would be Shoenmakers(spelling?) and Johnston, at the moment I think we pretty much have to go with a blanket approach to KPFs, as in pick up more that we'll need with the view that if 1 or 2 fail its not the end of the world and that if they all succeed then we'll have tremendous bargaining power come draft time.

Having said that, Rendell is right in saying first couple of picks must be best available, you can never be complacent and say we've got enough of player type a, so we'll ignore type a who is a better player for type b who whilst being a lesser player happens to be type b which we need. You can never have enough gun players, no matter what position they are and the 1st or 2nd rounders are the ones most likely to be gun players. So if a gun midfielder falls to us, we take him.

 

[CaptainDangerfield]

Imagine a spine consisting of Rutten, Bock, Hurley and Tippett. You'd have almost 400kg of man power! Not to mention this Walker kid I've heard so much about leading out from the square.

Thanks mate.

 

[TheVelourFog]

I think we should to pick up a midfielder with elite skills due to the problem with delivering the ball into the forward 50. Someone like Hartlett, Ziebell or Sidebottom. I would think that Hurley would be every chance to go to Port as he would most likely be best available and help their kp needs.

Although picking up Johnston with our first pick wouldn't be too bad an idea as he could turn into a Ryan O'Keefe style forward who can just take marks all day while roaming the ground. In fact I wouldn't be too upset if our first three picks were from North Adelaide with Johnston, O'keefe and Davis all looking like good prospects.

We definitely shouldn't be picking up any ruckman/forwards like Vickery or McKernan with our first pick as we certainly don't need them at this stage.

It's hard to guess at what Rendell will be looking for as last year he said that he loves midfielders because they play in nearly every position on the ground, but at the carnival this year he was talking up the talls as being some of the best ever. So it should be interesting.

 

[SellarStardom]

another quality attacking midfielder wouldn't go astray. Someone who can break the lines and run through to penetrate with a good accurate kick, that is one thing the side clearly lacks at the moment. All these key position player stuff is warranted but can be overstated. Look at many of the top clubs what is making them tick (apart from Hawthorn) are top quality and quick midfielders that attack and kick goals

 

[vlbl]

Our first round pick will most likely be between 6-8, and if Carlton, Essendon and Richmond all finish below us, then i think we can say goodbye to the Hurley dream. I just can't see a player of his potential slipping past so many teams that need a GUN KPP, especially with Port, and the other 3 i mentioned in need of either a KPF or KPB and by getting Hurley you essentially kill two birds with 1 stone.

The player i most want us to get is Jack Ziebell. He is a strong midfielder, who can crash through packs and by the looks of it is really good user of the ball by foot, which we NEED more then anything really. I am hoping that he 'slips' to us, because if we do get him i think our engine will be set for a tilt at the flag in the not to distant future.

For me Hurley would be a dream, but if not Ziebell should be our next best hope (He is my personal fave atm), and btw if we had Hartlett and Ziebell available, i hope Rendel does the same and take the Vic before and local kid. However, if non of them are available, I much like hope we land Johnston, really liked the things he did at the Champs.

Just a question for VC what do you think of Michale Still from Northern Knights, he's currently leading their goal kicking and as a bottom age forward what kind of player do you see him to be? Thanks.

 

[-VC-]

Good post vlbl. I probably shouldn't have talked Hurley up too much. I have him inside my Top 5, but if any of them were to slide I think it would be him because he probably won't test too well at Draft Camp. Pipe dream for sure.

If we had the choice between Hartlett and Ziebell I'd take Hartlett without hesitation. I love Ziebell, I really do, but **** Hartlett oozes class and he is a brilliant kick of the pill. A little skinny for my liking but I think he's the second best mid behind Rich in this draft. FWIW, I have Hartlett going Top 5 as well.

Michael Still has a ridiculously strong set of hands, but at this stage he doesn't seem to have a lot of other weapons. A pretty good leap actually. His kicking for goal is very suspect and he's not too quick or agile. I would be surprised if he got drafted this year as a bottom ager (though I just checked his DOB and he is eligible) but with improvement he's a chance to go in 2009. He was one of the key forward options I was talking about that Northern have an abundance of.

 

[vlbl]

There is no doubt Hartlett oozes class, but from the limited footage i have seen of him, he just doesn't seem to have much 'X' factor and to me i can see him to be a very solid AFL player without being exceptional. The main reason i like Ziebell is because of the versatility he provides (can play anywhere, really) and for me he kind of reminds me a bit of Ryan Griffen, as a strong running midfielder, with an exceptional kick, but thats my opinion anyways.

I would love it if we landed Hartlett don't get me wrong, but if it was at the expense of Ziebell, i personally would be scratching my head a little bit.

Thanks for the feedback on Still, yeh from the stats it seems to be that he struggles with accuracy kicking 25.17. The reason i asked about him is because if we do take a mid with our 1st pick and by the looks of it Johnston will be gone come our 2nd, what our KPF do you think will be in the mix for a later then 1st round pick?

 

[Campbell's Chunky]

If we got Hurley I would literally boof Matty Rendell.

You hear that Matty? draft Hurley and Rave Boofs you.

Seriously, This kid will be a champion FB/CHB/CHF at AFL level. 3 possies he could star at, he's literally that gun.

Any info to share Cave Slave?

 

[Campbell's Chunky]

Any info to share Cave Slave?

VC, as I haven't seen too much of him, what are Trengoves capabilities as a forward and/or defender...I'm probably more looking for abilities as a CHF.

I know he's rucked a fair bit, and is fairly good, but he probably isn't that desirable 200cm height.

Edit: And also Hurleys capabilities as a forward. Although with him possibly coming in as a FB, we could see Rutten go forward.

 

[crowsarethebest]

VC, as I haven't seen too much of him, what are Trengoves capabilities as a forward and/or defender...I'm probably more looking for abilities as a CHF.

I know he's rucked a fair bit, and is fairly good, but he probably isn't that desirable 200cm height.

Edit: And also Hurleys capabilities as a forward. Although with him possibly coming in as a FB, we could see Rutten go forward.

Trengrove is a forgotten man isn't he? Injured himself and doesn't seem to feature in top 10 calculations any more. He shouldn't slip out of the first round but. Anyone here seen Cahill who's an Adelaide boy? Been compared to Buddy Love Franklin by some on the Draft/trading board but doesn't seem to be regarded as a top pick, more likely 2nd/3rd round.

 

[flackjack]

Having said that, Rendell is right in saying first couple of picks must be best available, you can never be complacent and say we've got enough of player type a, so we'll ignore type a who is a better player for type b who whilst being a lesser player happens to be type b which we need. You can never have enough gun players, no matter what position they are and the 1st or 2nd rounders are the ones most likely to be gun players. So if a gun midfielder falls to us, we take him.

Agree, see West Coast 2006 for a good example. No forward line, but a midfield loaded with guns was enough to get them the flag.

 

[CaptainDangerfield]

another quality attacking midfielder wouldn't go astray. Someone who can break the lines and run through to penetrate with a good accurate kick, that is one thing the side clearly lacks at the moment. All these key position player stuff is warranted but can be overstated. Look at many of the top clubs what is making them tick (apart from Hawthorn) are top quality and quick midfielders that attack and kick goals

We had one but we gave him to sydney for peanuts.

 

[hendo8888]

A fair few people on Draft and Trading thread have put us with Tyrone Vickery for our first pick
what do you guys think about him? if anything

 

[Vader]

A fair few people on Draft and Trading thread have put us with Tyrone Vickery for our first pick
what do you guys think about him? if anything

He's a ruckman. From what I've read, arguably 2nd best in the draft behind NickNat.

Adelaide do need to pick up another young ruckman to develop, but I can't see them doing it with their first draft pick. Maybe late in the draft, or even in the rookie draft.

 

[TheVelourFog]

A fair few people on Draft and Trading thread have put us with Tyrone Vickery for our first pick
what do you guys think about him? if anything

I would hate it if we picked Vickery in the first round. We already have Tippett who can ruck and go forward, Maric can ruck and go forward, Moran can ruck and also play kp if needed and Griffin will hopefully be able to play all over the ground Cox like. With all of them being relatively younf we really shouldn't be drafting Vickery.

Much better players will be there and there are more pressing needs to address in the draft.

 

[Crow Magnum Man]

To me our greatest need is midfielders with pace who can break lines, we have the KPP stocked up but they just need some time to get the body strength up. We will probably take a project ruckman with a late draft pick to replace Biglands.

 

[Crowman32]

I really like the look of Ziebell. He is a tough midfielder who is very good at clearances, great skills and racks up the possessions in the midfield. Already has a great build and to me would be capable of playing AFL in his first season. He has a great penatrating kick and the sort of player who would deliver the ball well to the forwards.

 

[-VC-]

VC, as I haven't seen too much of him, what are Trengoves capabilities as a forward and/or defender...I'm probably more looking for abilities as a CHF.

I know he's rucked a fair bit, and is fairly good, but he probably isn't that desirable 200cm height.

Edit: And also Hurleys capabilities as a forward. Although with him possibly coming in as a FB, we could see Rutten go forward.

Yeah, Trengove definitely is the forgotten man. Missed the Carnival but had already proven plenty. Super athletic, but undersized as a ruckman. He does have a fantastic vertical leap.

As a pure forward prospect I still feel that Trengove has a lot to learn, but he had already shown some ability in key forward roles. I get the impression Calder were going to using him as a KPF a lot more this year. As a bottom ager he and McKernan shared a lot of the ruck work and they sent Dean Putt forward (that helped him get drafted IMO). Trengove is a monty to go, but I reckon they would've liked to have got more games into him as a forward in 2008. He only played one game for Calder this year before going down with injury.

A fair few people on Draft and Trading thread have put us with Tyrone Vickery for our first pick
what do you guys think about him? if anything

Ignore those. Most of them are just guys copying one another and swapping the order around to make theirs a little unique. If you actually questioned them about the players and rationale behind their selections they would give you nothing meaningful. Some good mocks will start showing up around October. The Official Big Footy Phantom Draft should kick into gear pretty soon too and that usually has some good reading.

I haven't seen a great deal of Vickery, but I've probably seen him twice as many times as a lot of those Phantom Drafters (I've seen him twice, they've seen him once on Fox).

 

[King Elvis]

First pick, best midfielder available; Hartlett would be great, if he wasn't taken.

I think we'll end up with a couple of picks in the 20s.

I think we'll go for Schoenmakers; 195-ish cm, great engine, quick for his size, excellent footskills and a very good decision maker. Has played KPP a lot, but has also been on the flanks and the wings of late; so he's versatile as hell. Could be a Bassett type, could be a forward, could be a Burton style wing.

Then, hopefully Sidebottom or O'Keefe.

Johnston is the other obvious one, but I think he'll go a little earlier, and I don't know if we want to use our first pick on a KPP when we've got a few good ones in the wing.

The draft is awesome this year, and I think the picks will surprise everyone, because it's so strong and so deep, that Clubs will have a lot of different needs based choices.

 

[Vader]

I think we'll end up with a couple of picks in the 20s.

Interested to know where you think the 2nd pick in the 20s is going to come from?

 

[whitey_1975]

my personal top 3 best scenario would be
pick6-hartlett - great skills, pace - midfielder
pick22-rockliff - great goal sense, reader of play - for/mid (in short bursts ala neon and sj)
pick38-schoenmakers - great natural ability, good at bringing others into play - forward

(havent seen rockliff so I am going on the posts of others)

 

[King Elvis]

Interested to know where you think the 2nd pick in the 20s is going to come from?

Possible trade of someone like Jericho/Massie/McGregor etc; not as a straight deal, but maybe to upgrade our 4th round to a 2nd or something.