Opinion Our Forward Set-up

[HARKER]

We've discussed the backs and our rucks but what about our forward-line set-up?
At this stage we have four staple pieces there, with Waite, Walker, Garlett and Betts all immediate ins when fit and in form.

The other pieces are still to settle and even though we may never have a set front 6, we will have a best or first picked 6 for most games.
We now have Casboult, Rowe and Hampson all in the mix and even talk of Kreuzer being played as a forward and relief ruck-man.
We then have Menzel, who is likely to be given time this year but really geared more for next season and onwards.
Other players that have acquitted themselves through our forward line have been Robinson (in attacking as well as defensive roles), Armfield (defensive initially, but has shown he can also kick goals)
We now also have talk of Judd going forward as a leader, play-maker and goal-kicker.

The forward line I'd love to see would be that I feel would have us covered on every front would be:

Walker Henderson Gibbs
Betts Waite Garlett

It's becoming pretty clear that Henderson will be confined to the back-line and Gibbs through the centre and as much as MM wants to have mix and match scenarios, his history has shown that he also likes settled forward and back-lines.

So who are we going to settle on for making up our forward line?

 

[blue healer]

I still think that Henderson is at his best in the backline and have always thought that we need three talls to release Betts and Garlett to strut their stuff at ground level.
I've, also, always felt that Hampson has the perfect body for a FF and that Waite is best on the flank so I'm going for:

Walker Casboult/Rowe Waite
Betts Hampson Garlett

 

[Wickzki]

HF: Andrew Walker - Levi Casboult - Chris Judd
FF: Eddie Betts - Shaun Hampson - Jeff Garlett

This would be the lineup that I would put out on the park.

Walker and Judd rotate through the midfield (the flanks become even more offensive wingers than a traditional set up), Levi crashes the packs, Hampson if he cannot mark taps it down to the waiting Betts/Garlett (whichever has the more room or the easiest tap).

For what it's worth it makes the C/RU combo look like this

C - Kade Simpson - Brock McLean - Bryce Gibbs
RU - Matthew Kreuzer - Andrew Carrazzo - Marc Murphy

 

[Azzurro]

Brilliant topic as usual Harks!

You've posted your opinion, as opposed to what you believe Malthouse is likely to do, right? So I'll give both a crack and see how we go:

Malthouse's likely forward setup (I think!):

Walker Casboult Garlett
Betts Rowe Hampson

My preferred setup:

Walker Casboult Judd
Betts Hampson Garlett

We have Robinson, Gibbs, Armfield, and when fit I believe Ellard can also rotate through the half forward line, to great effect. I know I've left out players like Simmo, Yaz and Murph - I believe they may see less time up front and more around the back half and the middle, setting up our plays and running into F50 rather than rotating into half forward.

I just see Malthouse going into game day with more talls on the park than we've been used to over the last few years. His game plan, as evidenced so far in the NAB cup, is most effective when there are effective and intelligent targets up forward, to create the contests required to bring our ground level guns into the play.

 

[Azzurro]

Brilliant topic as usual Harks!

You've posted your opinion, as opposed to what you believe Malthouse is likely to do, right? So I'll give both a crack and see how we go:

Malthouse's likely forward setup (I think!):

Walker Casboult Garlett
Betts Rowe Hampson

My preferred setup:

Walker Casboult Judd
Betts Hampson Garlett

We have Robinson, Gibbs, Armfield, and when fit I believe Ellard can also rotate through the half forward line, to great effect. I know I've left out players like Simmo, Yaz and Murph - I believe they may see less time up front and more around the back half and the middle, setting up our plays and running into F50 rather than rotating into half forward.

I just see Malthouse going into game day with more talls on the park than we've been used to over the last few years. His game plan, as evidenced so far in the NAB cup, is most effective when there are effective and intelligent targets up forward, to create the contests required to bring our ground level guns into the play.

And just like the excellent Wickziki, I am obviously assuming Waite has some form of debilitating injury preventing him from playing!

 

[Wickzki]

And just like the excellent Wickziki, I am obviously assuming Waite has some form of debilitating injury preventing him from playing!

Not putting him into the plans. His injuries make him too inconsistent to include in a legitimate plan. Also, I would not mind seeing him play away from forward some. It may be less stress on his legs and back.

 

[Stig O'Hara]

No love for Mitchell???

 

[Monkey King]

The forward line I'd love to see would be that I feel would have us covered on every front would be:

Like your thinking Harks. I too would like to Henderson played up forward. I'd probably drop Casboult in there too at FF and have Waite as a third tall running up to the wing and flanks. Then depending on what's going on with the rucks, Waite can drop back to FF if Levi needs to chop someone out. So I guess something like this ...

Waite Henderson Garlett
Betts Casboult Walker

Like to see Mitchell, Graham or Menzel get a shot in there too by years end if form and fitness back it up.

 

[coryne]

I personally can't see Henderson playing anywhere but CHB this year. I would like to see Watson developed as a 3rd tall this year, and possibly releasing Henderson to the forward line in 2014, but Henderson himself has said he now see's himself as a backman and I think his partnership with Jamison is vital for our finals hopes.

As for our forward line, my four automatic selections, as stated in the OP, would be Waite (if fit), Walker, Betts and Garlett (assuming his form is good). The disappointing thing is that, of those four the only consistent performer is Betts and Walker and Waite have their fitness issues and Garlett should have been dropped at times last year. Garlett had better hope his form is good, because I just can't see him gifted games this year if his performances slip again.

So from those four my set up would be

Walker ...... xxxxxxx ........ xxxxxxxx
Betts .......... Waite .......... Garlett


I think playing Waite as a FF would help with his longevity. We all know he can run all day, mark strongly and link up well, but if we want +20 games out of him over the season, including finals, I think we should plonk him in the forward 30 and allow him to use his athleticism to carve up defenders one-on-one. Walker can push up high to link up, so I think his best position would be as an attacking HFF, and Garlett/Betts are best as CRUMBING forwards (NONE of this "kick it to Betts" crap that we had going in the past !!!!!!)


I think our CHF needs to be a traditional "crash 'n' bash" CHB who can provide a strong marking contest for our crumbers to feed off, break open packs and take the occasional mark + goal (2 a game would be fine ). For me Casboult would be PERFECT for this role. He is the best contested mark in our side, tackles and applies pressure like a maniac and his goal kicking is improving.

Walker ...... Casboult ........ xxxxxxx
Betts .......... Waite .......... Garlett


SO that leaves us with two strong marking talls, two crumbing smalls and an athletic medium forward with one place to fill.


My last spot in the forward line would be pretty fluid. We will, at times, want to rest a ruckman forward so he could slot in here. Alternative we may want to deploy a defensive forward such as Robbo or Armfield in here, while at other times we might want to rest a midfielder such as Judd/Gibbs/Simpson etc. We could also use it to blood a player, and I can see Lucas/Graham/Menzel spending a fair amount of time in the forward line. This probably sounds like I am copping out, being reluctant to choose a 6th player, but I think flexability will be key for 2013 so I don't think there will be any one player played on this HFF position. I also think Betts and Garlett will be trialed at times through the midfield at center bounces, Walker will be spending plenty of time running through the midfield too and Waite could spend time on a wing.


If Waite is out injured then I would be moving Hampson up forward. I just don't think Rowe is ready for full AFL games yet, but I would LOVE to be proven wrong. Mitchell also needs to be developed for a year in the VFL, given a couple of games towards the end of 2013 IF he earns them, and then unleashed in 2014.

 

[blueboys4lyfe]

common harks, we just got gibbs in the middle dont move him out!

 

[blueboys4lyfe]

where is casboult. 0/10 thread

 

[HARKER]

common harks, we just got gibbs in the middle dont move him out!

where is casboult. 0/10 thread

Thanks bb4l.

I didn't say I had the answers and that's why I invited yours.

I agree Casboult should be there, but he's not my first pick to be honest when we have a 2.5 goals per game forward, in Waite.

 

[coryne]

Thanks bb4l.

I didn't say I had the answers and that's why I invited yours.

I agree Casboult should be there, but he's not my first pick to be honest when we have a 2.5 goals per game forward, in Waite.

But why would you rob our backline of a potentially great CHB to put him in as our CHF when Casboult is available ???


Put it this way, IMO Casboult is closer to being an AFL-quality CHF than Watson is to being an AFL-quality CHB.

 

[Faz 2000]

HF: Walker - Waite/Rowe - Garlett
FF: Betts - Casboult - Hampson

That's my starting line-up. Rowe gets a go if Waite is out hurt.

Hampson is 70/30 forward/ruck, Kreuzer the other way around.

I think this forward line has targets, legitimate contested marking power, and the best, fastest, most agile 1-2-3 of small quick forwards going around.

Casboult, Hampson and Waite/Rowe need to ensure they're constantly cycling out from the goal square on leads to spread the defenders and provide options. If they all stand still we get a giant mess that's relatively easy for defenders to kill the ball. These guys are the structure, though. The spine. None of the big boys are world-beaters, but all are legit targets and physically ready to compete harder than anyone we've had in a while.

Walker/Betts/Garlett are effectively mobile enough to operate in the entire front half of the ground, so should be given license to do so. Garlett does his best work getting goal-side anyway, and burning people off. These are our best forwards, and will lap it up with a legit structure in place per the above big boys.

These are the guys who should be called "forwards", but we would expect over the course of the game to see Murphy, Gibbs, Judd, Robinson, Simpson and others cycling through here when it's their turn to rest, or they can sneak forward during play.

 

[Faz 2000]

But why would you rob our backline of a potentially great CHB to put him in as our CHF when Casboult is available ???

Also, totally agree. We have Hendo killing it as a mobile KPD. Leave him there.

Jamison-Hendo is a GREAT start to a backline, ably supported by Laidler-Duigan and Tuohy/Yarran/Scotland the run. Watson the apprentice KPD. It's a good setup, let it stay together.

 

[zeeCFC]

Hendo is too good at CHB, a much more important position IMO.

Walker, Waite, Garlett
Hampson, Casboult, Betts

Menzel will make things interesting next year.

 

[BM123]

Need Casboult in the forward line to crash packs

 

[Blue since 72]

Walker Casboult Garlett
Betts Waite Hampson

White (if he plays) and Gibbs to rotate through the half forward line with Betts having stints in the middle. Yarran could also spend time at half forward.

 

[Wickzki]

I think playing Waite as a FF would help with his longevity. We all know he can run all day, mark strongly and link up well, but if we want +20 games out of him over the season, including finals, I think we should plonk him in the forward 30 and allow him to use his athleticism to carve up defenders one-on-one.

I do not understand the longevity argument for Waite playing FF. Playing at FF he draws the opposition's leading tall defender who will pound on him all game, every game and we know Jarrad loves getting physical with the opposition. This would not bode well for his recent back injuries. Further, he has endured serious leg injuries and playing at full forward is a demanding position on the legs demanding quick turning and quick leads. If you were looking to enhance his longevity you would make him a secondary forward or put him in the back half of the field.

 

[Amers]

I

HF: Walker - Waite/Rowe - Garlett
FF: Betts - Casboult - Hampson

That's my starting line-up. Rowe gets a go if Waite is out hurt.

Hampson is 70/30 forward/ruck, Kreuzer the other way around.

I think this forward line has targets, legitimate contested marking power, and the best, fastest, most agile 1-2-3 of small quick forwards going around.

Casboult, Hampson and Waite/Rowe need to ensure they're constantly cycling out from the goal square on leads to spread the defenders and provide options. If they all stand still we get a giant mess that's relatively easy for defenders to kill the ball. These guys are the structure, though. The spine. None of the big boys are world-beaters, but all are legit targets and physically ready to compete harder than anyone we've had in a while.

Walker/Betts/Garlett are effectively mobile enough to operate in the entire front half of the ground, so should be given license to do so. Garlett does his best work getting goal-side anyway, and burning people off. These are our best forwards, and will lap it up with a legit structure in place per the above big boys.

These are the guys who should be called "forwards", but we would expect over the course of the game to see Murphy, Gibbs, Judd, Robinson, Simpson and others cycling through here when it's their turn to rest, or they can sneak forward during play.

I could give you my opinion, but I would just be repeating this !!

 

[goreds]

Loves a defensive forward...

Ellard switching with Robbo/Murphy/Gibbs...

There WILL be a lock down defensive forward...!

2 talls, 2 smalls, 1 medium, 1 resting/defensive...

Horses for courses...

 

[Claypigeon]

(Funnily enough I had a response written up on my phone and lost it then saw an MX article on Army)

We've discussed the backs and our rucks but what about our forward-line set-up?
At this stage we have four staple pieces there, with Waite, Walker, Garlett and Betts all immediate ins when fit and in form.

Not sure I agree Harks. .. Walker and Betts are certainly walk up starts because they've shown the ability to hold form and reduced the gap between their worst and best performances. .. Waite and Jeffy not so much. ..

Waite should be but it is getting to the point where we need to treat him similarly to Brad Ottens at Geelong and concentrate and making sure he is right for the second half of the season, even if that mean rest games and light runs into the 2s with a delayed pre-season. ..

Jeffy is another story. .. He is brilliant and on his day can be hugely affective plus he his affinity with Betts is great, if not possibly detrimental to a cohesive forward structure. .. and this brings me back to Army, who I think is closing the gap on Jeffy and I think already has a smaller gap between his best and worst performances plus he can rotate effectively through the midfield and even perform a shut down up forward and down back or even in the midfield. ..

So given this. .. My potential starting 6 is:

HF: Walker - Casboult - Midfielder/Armfield/Jeffy
FF: Betts - Waite/Rowe - Hampson

Could even throw Walker at FF and let Waite roam up the flank to take the pressure off. ..

 

[KennyHunter9]

Pretty simple truth: if we want Waite to play 15+ games he cannot play KP - he needs to play wing or flank.

Waite - Casboult - Robinson
Garlett - resting ruck - Betts

 

[Blue Ratts]

HF: Andrew Walker - Levi Casboult - Chris Judd
FF: Eddie Betts - Shaun Hampson - Jeff Garlett

This would be the lineup that I would put out on the park.

Walker and Judd rotate through the midfield (the flanks become even more offensive wingers than a traditional set up), Levi crashes the packs, Hampson if he cannot mark taps it down to the waiting Betts/Garlett (whichever has the more room or the easiest tap).

For what it's worth it makes the C/RU combo look like this

C - Kade Simpson - Brock McLean - Bryce Gibbs
RU - Matthew Kreuzer - Andrew Carrazzo - Marc Murphy

I'm going with Cas and Hampson in for now and if someone else pushes a claim all good for us.

 

[BlueTongue]

Pretty simple truth: if we want Waite to play 15+ games he cannot play KP - he needs to play wing or flank.

Waite - Casboult - Robinson
Garlett - resting ruck - Betts

I'd like to see White permanently in the HF. Has a great set of hands and is good at bodywork. Kicking looks to have come along too.