Our young players compared to other teams

[shniko11]

Teams pick up A grade players in the 2nd and 3rd rounds just about every year. We have just missed out on a number of occasions due to poor drafting.

2008 draft:
- pick 29: Dayne Beams
- pick 30: Daniel Hannerbury
- pick 44: Rory Sloane

2009 draft
- pick 20: Nat Fyfe
- pick 28: Mitch Duncan (handy type)
- pick 34: Max Gawn

2010 draft:
- pick 40: Luke Parker

2011 draft:
- pick 30: Elliot Yeo
- pick 58: Lachie Neale

Any of these guys would make a significant impact to our current midfield. It's a lot easier to pick up superstars in the top 10 but they can be found well outside it.

Good one Hannerbury and Parker for Sydney alone. Sloane,Fyfe and Beams sheesh. Wonder if North had picked any of them up if they would be the players they are today.

 

[Gasometer]

All Page 1 tells me is that picking a great player is like...

 

[roos_fanatic08]

Good one Hannerbury and Parker for Sydney alone. Sloane,Fyfe and Beams sheesh. Wonder if North had picked any of them up if they would be the players they are today.

2008 really hurt us.

We reached bigtime for Sam Wright while Beams and Hannerbury were taken a few picks after him. Then we picked up Anthony one pick before Sloane. We could have made something seriously special from that draft. But hindsight is a wonderful thing

 

[Gasometer]

2008 really hurt us.

We reached bigtime for Sam Wright while Beams and Hannerbury were taken a few picks after him. Then we picked up Anthony one pick before Sloane. We could have made something seriously special from that draft. But hindsight is a wonderful thing

Sam Wright may well still win a Norm Smith.

LA...well gagf Cloke....was never the same.

But yeh...u r wright.

 

[danj]

...like look at 90-91-92.

Inconsistent rabbits.

Nekminit.

Dennis Pagan?

 

[ferball]

Hmmmm....maybe....but inconsistent....check this out before the breakout year...

http://www.footywire.com/afl/footy/tg-kangaroos?year=1992

Last game v Lions check it out.

Who do you reckon kicks 7 and who gets 37 disposals this years version?

 

[Moti]

We have some solid types but other than Pruess I don't see any genuine A-graders out of any of the kids on our list.

Simpkin has a s**t tonne of potential but I don't think he has the body to be a genuine midfielder. It's bloody hard to be an A-grader when u are playing across half forward.

Garner can't find it enough and his body hasn't developed at all since his first year.

Turner is solid but I don't think he will ever be an elite small forward who will kick 40+ goals in a season as he just doesn't have enough tools.

EVW and Nielson look good. Not game breakers but reliable 150-200 gamers who make good decisions. You need those sort of players going forward.

Clarke gone backwards have no idea what to think of him.

Dumont I would have thought would have really cemented himself this season. Has failed to do so and really looks lost at times. Has good skills though.

I'm not particularly excited about Durdin. The intensity and consistent effort across 4 quarters just really isn't there.


I just don't back out list development to get the best out of these guys.

Preuss? There would be a few ahead of him for an A grader. I for one expect him to be a good AFL player but he doesn't have the ceiling of Simpkin, Williams, Wood among others.


On iPhone using BigFooty.com mobile app

 

[big_e]

Teams pick up A grade players in the 2nd and 3rd rounds just about every year. We have just missed out on a number of occasions due to poor drafting.

2008 draft:
- pick 29: Dayne Beams
- pick 30: Daniel Hannerbury
- pick 44: Rory Sloane

2009 draft
- pick 20: Nat Fyfe
- pick 28: Mitch Duncan (handy type)
- pick 34: Max Gawn

2010 draft:
- pick 40: Luke Parker

2011 draft:
- pick 30: Elliot Yeo
- pick 58: Lachie Neale

Any of these guys would make a significant impact to our current midfield. It's a lot easier to pick up superstars in the top 10 but they can be found well outside it.

It's disingenuous to only look at the successful picks. To take Luke Parker's selection, for example, the other players chosen in the second round that year were:

Ryan Lester, Scott Lycett, Jake Batchelor, Ariel Steinberg, Josh Green, Jeremy Howe, Patrick McCarthy, Ben Newton, Aaron Young, George Horlin-Smith, Mitchell Hallahan, Jeremy Taylor, Tom Liberatore (F/S), Luke Mitchell, Sam Crocker and Viv Michie

It's not that we have drafted particularly poorly, it's just that, as you admit, once you get past the top ten, it's a crap-shoot.

 

[roos_fanatic08]

It's disingenuous to only look at the successful picks. To take Luke Parker's selection, for example, the other players chosen in the second round that year were:

Ryan Lester, Scott Lycett, Jake Batchelor, Ariel Steinberg, Josh Green, Jeremy Howe, Patrick McCarthy, Ben Newton, Aaron Young, George Horlin-Smith, Mitchell Hallahan, Jeremy Taylor, Tom Liberatore (F/S), Luke Mitchell, Sam Crocker and Viv Michie

It's not that we have drafted particularly poorly, it's just that, as you admit, once you get past the top ten, it's a crap-shoot.

I realise that. But other than Brown and maybe Wood (jury well and truly out) we haven't really struck gold in the later rounds for a very long time. Our drafting and development is just like our on field performance it's above par but not really outstanding by any means

 

[DarwinRoo]

We missed out on Max Gawn? Yeah, nah


And vanilla is an ice cream flavour.

 

[Groin guru]

I think Joyce has built a great list of young players.

Simpkin - elite talent

Hibberd, Wood, and Garner need to get some continuation in their football. Once they do they should be able to show their true potential.

LMac is shown glimpses and will be a game breaker soon enough.

Clarke and dumont have gone backwards but both are genuine footballers. It's tough when your going against afl ready mids in a young team. Their confidence has taken a whack but they will bounce back and be better for it. I think Clarke will win a brownlow (genuine).

I like wagners move to defence. He has a great tank,good tackler, and quite quick. Could become another marley type.

I think Nielson will be a gun. Such a competitor! A full back that has excellent closing speed. So much so he caught up to robbie gray twice. Think he will be a gem.

EVW will be a 200 game player. No nonsense, makes the right decision and will rarely get gis flag lowered. Gem.

I like mountford. Has some tricks up his sleeve. Want to see more of him.

Turner needs to add more tools. Was showing something this year. If he can add the ability to compete through the mid rotations he will be an asset.

Brown = A grade.

McKay, junker, and larkey look promising.

Williams and zuhaar have performed more than we would have thought in their first year.

Ahern. Testicles crossed he can get in the field. Looks to be a future star.

Thanks Joyce. Good work.

#JoyceBless

 

[Mixed Results]

It's funny that every club in the league thinks they're bad at drafting. While we sook about missing out on a Max Gawn type, there's a thread on another team's board using Brown as an example of a great late pick while bemoaning their own side's lack of success in the later rounds.

It's incredibly rare to find a star outside the first round; when there's 2-3 a year at most you can't expect one club to hoard them all. Sydney did and it got them to three Grand Finals with a fourth potentially incoming. Brown is one of the better 40+ picks of the last decade and Preuss is genuinely an AA chance if his endurance ever catches up with his talent. Not to mention our steady incoming stream of late round b-graders; EVW, Turner, Mountford and Wood have all shown the potential for long careers. That's a great return from our tickets in the draft lotto.

If we have an issue, it's in not having the right picks. People use Carlton and Melbourne as trendy examples of sides with great yoof, but when you look at where guys like SPS, Weitering, Curnow, McKay, Pickett, Marchbank, Plowman and Docherty were selected, you would realize that we've only had McDonald and Simpkin drafted in that range since 2009.

 

[Jindrrk]

I think Joyce has built a great list of young players.

Simpkin - elite talent

Hibberd, Wood, and Garner need to get some continuation in their football. Once they do they should be able to show their true potential.

LMac is shown glimpses and will be a game breaker soon enough.

Clarke and dumont have gone backwards but both are genuine footballers. It's tough when your going against afl ready mids in a young team. Their confidence has taken a whack but they will bounce back and be better for it. I think Clarke will win a brownlow (genuine).

I like wagners move to defence. He has a great tank,good tackler, and quite quick. Could become another marley type.

I think Nielson will be a gun. Such a competitor! A full back that has excellent closing speed. So much so he caught up to robbie gray twice. Think he will be a gem.

EVW will be a 200 game player. No nonsense, makes the right decision and will rarely get gis flag lowered. Gem.

I like mountford. Has some tricks up his sleeve. Want to see more of him.

Turner needs to add more tools. Was showing something this year. If he can add the ability to compete through the mid rotations he will be an asset.

Brown = A grade.

McKay, junker, and larkey look promising.

Williams and zuhaar have performed more than we would have thought in their first year.

Ahern. Testicles crossed he can get in the field. Looks to be a future star.

Thanks Joyce. Good work.

#JoyceBless

Just remember 2nd year blues for Clarke etc

Even the android Wietering has been ordinary though played out of position a bit

 

[jess_1804]

Just remember 2nd year blues for Clarke etc

Even the android Wietering has been ordinary though played out of position a bit

Was about to post the same thing. Clarke was very promising last year, clearly has a problem at the moment and could be attributed to the 2nd year blues. He'll come good.

LMac went through a very lean second year as well, most people on here saying he wasn't worth the pick 8. Now he's starting to get to the A grade level we'd all hoped.

 

[Shagga is all Class]

We have a solid bunch, the 2014-16 group should provide some key players to the team.

The one position we lack is ball winning mids, the elite variety. Add 2 and we have most others coveted.


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/thread.

Some A grade mids and suddenly many of those players get an extra 3-4 possessions a game and > instances where the ball is to their advantage. It is not like our senior players are setting the world on fire.

 

[koshari]

2008 really hurt us.

We reached bigtime for Sam Wright while Beams and Hannerbury were taken a few picks after him. Then we picked up Anthony one pick before Sloane. We could have made something seriously special from that draft. But hindsight is a wonderful thing

so could every other team in the comp,

 

[Elite Master]

18 year old Lewis Young for the Bulldogs plays his first game and makes a impact straight away. When was the last time that happened here with a youngster?

 

[shimaburnsgrieg]

18 year old Lewis Young for the Bulldogs plays his first game and makes a impact straight away. When was the last time that happened here with a youngster?

i'd argue its happened via our last 2 matches - with Neilson - has come in and looks right at home as a kpd.

 

[F_therest]

It's funny that every club in the league thinks they're bad at drafting. While we sook about missing out on a Max Gawn type, there's a thread on another team's board using Brown as an example of a great late pick while bemoaning their own side's lack of success in the later rounds.

It's incredibly rare to find a star outside the first round; when there's 2-3 a year at most you can't expect one club to hoard them all. Sydney did and it got them to three Grand Finals with a fourth potentially incoming. Brown is one of the better 40+ picks of the last decade and Preuss is genuinely an AA chance if his endurance ever catches up with his talent. Not to mention our steady incoming stream of late round b-graders; EVW, Turner, Mountford and Wood have all shown the potential for long careers. That's a great return from our tickets in the draft lotto.

If we have an issue, it's in not having the right picks. People use Carlton and Melbourne as trendy examples of sides with great yoof, but when you look at where guys like SPS, Weitering, Curnow, McKay, Pickett, Marchbank, Plowman and Docherty were selected, you would realize that we've only had McDonald and Simpkin drafted in that range since 2009.

Just chiming in since you mentioned Carlton...you're right although you are including players we traded in.

We got Pickett for essentially a third rounder or so, Plowman was a smart trade he and a bunch of other players came for just pick 28, Marchbank essentially for Tuohy and a pick downgrade and Docherty for pick 33 (what a steal)...so there was creative trading to get those previously high draft picks at a pretty good price.

Similar in a way to you getting Ahern (former pick 6) for a token pick, who you didn't mention.

I feel like i should also mention the draft pick we got to acquire McKay was obtained by trading Henderson & the pick for Curnow was from trading picks 21 (obtained by trading Tom Bell) & 22 to the dogs for pick 11.

So for all those players you mentioned, only SPS & Weitering were drafted by picks simply given to us like McDonald and Simpkin...the others we had to aggressively trade for and make it happen...an option North maybe should consider to get these high draft picks you speak of.

 

[Mixed Results]

Just chiming in since you mentioned Carlton...you're right although you are including players we traded in.

We got Pickett for essentially a third rounder or so, Plowman was a smart trade he and a bunch of other players came for just pick 28, Marchbank essentially for Tuohy and a pick downgrade and Docherty for pick 33 (what a steal)...so there was creative trading to get those previously high draft picks at a pretty good price.

Similar in a way to you getting Ahern (former pick 6) for a token pick, who you didn't mention.

I feel like i should also mention the draft pick we got to acquire McKay was obtained by trading Henderson & the pick for Curnow was from trading picks 21 (obtained by trading Tom Bell) & 22 to the dogs for pick 11.

So for all those players you mentioned, only SPS & Weitering were drafted by picks simply given to us like McDonald and Simpkin...the others we had to aggressively trade for and make it happen...an option North maybe should consider to get these high draft picks you speak of.

I definitely cherry picked a few points, but the main point of my post was the correlation between elite young talent and early draft picks. People see our lack of drafted stars and then complain that we're bad at drafting because we aren't finding the Lachie Neale/Luke Parker types. When in reality those types are incedibly rare and if we want to have elite young talent, history says we either need to finish in the bottom half of on the ladder or buy low on former high draft picks.

North haven't been doing much of either, which has more to do with our lack of elite talent then any weaknesses in our recruiting or development.

Wasn't having a go at Carlton. You guys had at one stage what was widely considered the worst list in the league, through a few shrewd moves that you mentioned above, you guys turned what was at the time a terrible list brought on by years of poor drafting into a list that is admittedly quite promising.

 

[F_therest]

I definitely cherry picked a few points, but the main point of my post was the correlation between elite young talent and early draft picks. People see our lack of drafted stars and then complain that we're bad at drafting because we aren't finding the Lachie Neale/Luke Parker types. When in reality those types are incedibly rare and if we want to have elite young talent, history says we either need to finish in the bottom half of on the ladder or buy low on former high draft picks.

North haven't been doing much of either, which has more to do with our lack of elite talent then any weaknesses in our recruiting or development.

Wasn't having a go at Carlton. You guys had at one stage what was widely considered the worst list in the league, through a few shrewd moves that you mentioned above, you guys turned what was at the time a terrible list brought on by years of poor drafting into a list that is admittedly quite promising.

Yeah i agree with your points...just showing the path that we took that North could also take if they choose to be aggressive to get those early, elite draft picks we're discussing.

Do you need to go as hard as we did? Maybe, maybe not. But with North in a 'rebuilding' phase of sorts with the introduction of young players and some posters ITT stating you need more A grade young kids from high draft picks, you could trade aggressively to obtain them and get creative like we have over the last 2 years.

You're right...we had the worst list in the league by a mile under MM and Hughes/Rogers (recruiters). Year after year of busts with the likes of Kane Lucas, Josh Bootsma, Yarran, Menzel, Watson & Boekhorst as our first round draft picks...just shocking. But SOS has shown if you want to, you can get those high draft picks you just need to be willing to trade some decent players.

You are coming from a much better base than we were and already have a top 3 pick this year...if you can somehow find a way to get another top pick to come through with pick 2 + Simpkin then you start to stockpile some elite talent.

 

[Benno_900]

Dumont severely underrated in this thread.

He is a gun. Just out of form atm.

 

[Psicosis]

Garner and dumont need to come back from preseason with zero skin folds if they want to be rated.

 

[Hearts to hearts]

It's disingenuous to only look at the successful picks. To take Luke Parker's selection, for example, the other players chosen in the second round that year were:

Ryan Lester, Scott Lycett, Jake Batchelor, Ariel Steinberg, Josh Green, Jeremy Howe, Patrick McCarthy, Ben Newton, Aaron Young, George Horlin-Smith, Mitchell Hallahan, Jeremy Taylor, Tom Liberatore (F/S), Luke Mitchell, Sam Crocker and Viv Michie

It's not that we have drafted particularly poorly, it's just that, as you admit, once you get past the top ten, it's a crap-shoot.

Patrick McCarthy was good for us for a while, don't forget.

 

[remfan101]

22 or younger implies drafts 2013 to 2016.

Let's evaluate:

2013: Luke McDonald (8), Trent Dumont (30), Ben Brown (47) Rookies: Joel Tippet, Kayne Turner.

I get that Brown is 24, but I think it's fair to include him. I think we did well in this draft. Definitely 2 out of 4 winners and I think Turner has suffered from a lack of continuity. I'm calling 2 guns and another good 10 year player out of 5 picks here.

2014: Sam Durdin (16), Daniel Neilsen (25), Ed Vickers-Willis (36) Rookies: Braydon Preuss, Will Fordham, Max Warren , Robin Nahas

3 x 10 year players here for mine, with the Jury still out on Durdin. Good draft based on the draft picks and the bonus of Preuss. I'm calling 1 gun and 2 good 10 year players out of 5 realistic picks here.

2015: Ben McKay (21), Ryan Clarke (31), Mitch Hibberd (33), Corey Wagner (43), Declan Mountford (60) Rookies: Farren Ray, Majak Daw. Trade: Jed Anderson and picks 38 & 40 for picks 15 & 55 looks like a big blunder here.

This is a draft where we took a shotgun approach and going by it's returns so far, it doesn't look like it's going to be any sort of great draft. There doesn't seem to be much happening outside the top 10, and we never had a top 10 pick anyway.

It's too early for a call on McKay. I reckon Hibberd will be a 10 year player and Mountford is showing something. Outside of this there isn't much jumping off the page, and I expect we will turn many of these players over for the 2018 draft if they can't nail down a spot. 1 out of 7 at present.

2016: Jy Simpkin (12), Declan Watson (34), Josh Williams (36), Nick Larkey (73) Rookies: Cameron Zurhaar, Oscar Junker, Matthew Taylor. Trades: Nathan Hrovat (50), Paul Ahern (69)

Too early again to tell, but I am happy to pencil Simpkin in as a gun and Hrovat as a 10 year player. Larkey, Williams and Zurhaar all look promising. Ahern could be elite or a bust.

The tally: 4 guns, and 5 x 10 year players out of 15 draft picks and 6 applicable rookies. 9/21

If our 22 and under types fall short, then the 2015 draft is the year that will jump off the page. I can only find 1 player in that draft who I can state at this point in time, should have a good career. Remove this year from the data and my ratio is 8/15

Mostly agree, but not in regards to the '15 draft. I reckon those players will be the core of our team for a long time. Ben McKay is still only 19 years old and is a massive unit and will make it. Ryan Clarke showed great signs last year but seems to be suffering from some second year blues. He'll come through it, and be an important player for us for years, maybe not the elite mid I originally thought but I wouldn't put it past him. Hibberd has shown enough in his last 2 games to suggest he can be the best of the lot, tall, strong and a penetrating kick, and is probably the most natural accumulator under 25 on our list. Wagner is a bit more speculative but has looked good this year when uninjured. Mountford is looking great for a late pick, lightning quick and defensively switched on, could find more of it but for a pick 60 he definitely looks a success. Then theres Preuss, who's already shown the ability to be elite in his position, and has incredible upside. So yeah, I would definitely not be writing off this draft, I reckon we'll look back at it as a massive success.