Paddy Ryder vs Tom Williams

[doggiesin08]

the difference between the two is ryder has the runs on the board and even though williams could possibly be a very good defender ryder still has a lot more potential then him

lol not really. In anycase the question is in your team, I've acknowledged Ryder is better value on the list as you get more games out of him in a season but in the TEAM its Williams by a long way.

 

[Smyth94]

When Williams is on the park the Dogs are a substantially better side and he has the ability to shut down his opponent with exceptional strength and speed. What people forget when comparing key defenders is what they do on the flip-side - the attacking side - of things. Williams is damaging with his run, marking and rebound ability. Ryder is not. There's the difference for you.

Rubbish - I find it hard for Williams to be more damaging than Ryder when they average the same kicks, handballs, marks, tackles - difference is, Ryder did it for a whole season - until Williams can achieve this, then he's not on the same level.

lol not really. In anycase the question is in your team, I've acknowledged Ryder is better value on the list as you get more games out of him in a season but in the TEAM its Williams by a long way.

What a crock of $hite...How can you say Williams by a long way, Ryder has played more than double the amount of games at a better quality - you cannot extrapolate Williams' 19 career games and say "oh if he'd been fit he would've been playing at this level" - utter crap.

Ryder is the better talent and has the runs on the board

 

[doggiesin08]

What a crock of $hite...How can you say Williams by a long way, Ryder has played more than double the amount of games at a better quality - you cannot extrapolate Williams' 19 career games and say "oh if he'd been fit he would've been playing at this level" - utter crap.

Ryder is the better talent and has the runs on the board

Ryder hasn't played double at a better quality. He's just played double, IMO at a lower quality. I'm also not saying "oh if he'd been fit he would've been playing at this level", when he was fit he WAS playing at that level which is higher than any Ryder has reached.

 

[Smyth94]

Ryder hasn't played double at a better quality. He's just played double, IMO at a lower quality. I'm also not saying "oh if he'd been fit he would've been playing at this level", when he was fit he WAS playing at that level which is higher than any Ryder has reached.

You're assuming that he would've maintained that level for the entire course of the season which is simply guesswork, Ryder's first 6-7 games of the season were nigh on AA quality - ask any Essendon supporter and they will tell you how good he was for the first 6 or so games, he tapered off during the middle of the year and then had another brilliant patch whilst we were winning games - you simply cannot state that William's would've played to that same level for the entire season based on 6 games

 

[doggiesin08]

You're assuming that he would've maintained that level for the entire course of the season which is simply guesswork, Ryder's first 6-7 games of the season were nigh on AA quality - ask any Essendon supporter and they will tell you how good he was for the first 6 or so games, he tapered off during the middle of the year and then had another brilliant patch whilst we were winning games - you simply cannot state that William's would've played to that same level for the entire season based on 6 games

good thing I havn't actually said that then isn't it.

 

[ttomred17]

So your trying to say you would rather have PADDY RYDER standing at CHB than TOM WILLIAMS?
Outrageous, each to there own though

Williams has incredible athletic ability, very strong and can lay a bloody strong tackle. Coming from a rugby back ground its expected.

I know who i would rather

 

[BABYBOMBERS2007]

Ryder is clearly better.

 

[Bubba_5]

beleive it or not coaches generally assign particular roles to particular players, some players are told to leave their opponents in order to generate an attack from the defensive 50, essendon has had countless numbers of those including nash, dempsey, myers, reimers, houli, fletcher, NLM and i could go on, ryder is told to mark a key forward and restrict his influence. if you have ever seen ryder play you would know he is naturally attacking, he cant help it if it isnt his job to attack.

the difference between the two is ryder has the runs on the board and even though williams could possibly be a very good defender ryder still has a lot more potential then him

Ryder has no more runs on the board than Williams. Games do NOT equal runs, fulfillment of talent equals runs, and Williams has done this more than Ryder. Believe it or not we have those sorts of rebounding players as well, and like Ryder, Williams' role is to defend, but that doesn't mean that when he gets it he has to be a boring-betty and kick sideways within the defensive fifty, he attacks and does it well.

Rubbish - I find it hard for Williams to be more damaging than Ryder when they average the same kicks, handballs, marks, tackles - difference is, Ryder did it for a whole season - until Williams can achieve this, then he's not on the same level.

That's BS. So until Williams can achieve something totally out of his control - staying injury free - he is not at the same level? Give me a break. You want to pull out the stats? TomaWill has a margin of over 5% on disposal efficiency to Ryder and nearly 20% more rebound fifties. And that's just from 6 games after coming back from injury! Ryder had the whole year to prove his worth.

You're assuming that he would've maintained that level for the entire course of the season which is simply guesswork, Ryder's first 6-7 games of the season were nigh on AA quality - ask any Essendon supporter and they will tell you how good he was for the first 6 or so games, he tapered off during the middle of the year and then had another brilliant patch whilst we were winning games - you simply cannot state that William's would've played to that same level for the entire season based on 6 games

No, Williams definitely wouldn't have played at that same level - he would have IMPROVED you twit. He played 6 games after coming back from injury, he wasn't even at his best, or anywhere near it for that matter, and he still did better than the injury-free Ryder. Ryder was nowhere near AA quality at any point in the season, don't kid yourself. I know Ryder is one that you Bombers fans cling to because he actually has talent and because he was a high draft pick who you don't want to go to waste, but please don't go pumping his tyres in the way you currently are, he will become a very good player in time.

 

[Smyth94]

So your trying to say you would rather have PADDY RYDER standing at CHB than TOM WILLIAMS?
Outrageous, each to there own though

Williams has incredible athletic ability, very strong and can lay a bloody strong tackle. Coming from a rugby back ground its expected.

I know who i would rather

I'd put my house on Ryder being more athletically gifted than Williams

 

[Smyth94]

Ryder has no more runs on the board than Williams. Games do NOT equal runs, fulfillment of talent equals runs, and Williams has done this more than Ryder. Believe it or not we have those sorts of rebounding players as well, and like Ryder, Williams' role is to defend, but that doesn't mean that when he gets it he has to be a boring-betty and kick sideways within the defensive fifty, he attacks and does it well.

You don't really get footy don't you?

Using your warped logic, Bradd Dalziell was the best midfielder in the league; M McVeigh had an equal season to Cooney because in his 11 games he played to the same quality

Playing games DO equal runs on the board, what's this "fulfillment of talent" rubbish? How do you place a metric on one's talent capabilities? We can only measure one's development by the amount of games they play and the quality to which they are played. Anything else is based on hypotheticals and "what ifs"

That's BS. So until Williams can achieve something totally out of his control - staying injury free - he is not at the same level? Give me a break. You want to pull out the stats? TomaWill has a margin of over 5% on disposal efficiency to Ryder and nearly 20% more rebound fifties. And that's just from 6 games after coming back from injury! Ryder had the whole year to prove his worth.

Thats right champ, until Williams play enough games to resemble a season, he's not on the same level.

Lol...do you realise I could get Ryder's best 6 games and reel out his statistics as well, it proves that he had a good 6 games, nothing more.

Ryder did it over the course of the whole season - 22 games, thats the defining factor which makes his season superior to Williams

No, Williams definitely wouldn't have played at that same level - he would have IMPROVED you twit. He played 6 games after coming back from injury, he wasn't even at his best, or anywhere near it for that matter, and he still did better than the injury-free Ryder. Ryder was nowhere near AA quality at any point in the season, don't kid yourself. I know Ryder is one that you Bombers fans cling to because he actually has talent and because he was a high draft pick who you don't want to go to waste, but please don't go pumping his tyres in the way you currently are, he will become a very good player in time.

He would've improved based on what? Your opinion? There are so many variables that can define a whole season, especially with young players.

In the same breath you tell me not to pump up Ryder but you're the one claiming Williams is so much better based on 6 games, who's pumping who up?

Ryder's first 6 games of the season were as good as you could've asked for , for a 20 year old key defender. Again, ask any Essendon fan and they will tell you he was awesome.

 

[Bulldog1954]

At the moment you would have to say Ryder, simply because he has played a lot more games, Tommy has shown potential but can't be properly gauged until he gets his body right and strings some games together. One thing Tommy does have over Ryder is he's bigger and tougher, making him a better match for what we need.

 

[Bubba_5]

You don't really get footy don't you?

He would've improved based on what? Your opinion? There are so many variables that can define a whole season, especially with young players.

In the same breath you tell me not to pump up Ryder but you're the one claiming Williams is so much better based on 6 games, who's pumping who up?

Ryder's first 6 games of the season were as good as you could've asked for , for a 20 year old key defender. Again, ask any Essendon fan and they will tell you he was awesome.

I get footy, and english by the looks, a whole lot better than you buddy.

My opinion is just as valid as yours. You are right, there are a number of variables which define a whole season and the reason why we are having this argument at all is because those variables are indeterminate. Our opinion is simply our interpretation of these variables.

I'm not claiming that Williams is so much better! I am saying that he's better, but I feel that he and Ryder are so close that I wouldn't be posting if it wasn't for the Nongs proclaiming Ryder to be comfortably better than Williams.

You're criticizing me for "what-ifs?" regarding the remainder of Williams' year and maintaining his standard, yet it is a much bigger what-if for those 6 games to be his best and for him to fade as he recovers more and more from his injury - just doesn't make sense buddy.

If Williams had played a full season I would wager that his best 6 games would include none of the ones he played except for his game on Franklin, so to say that "you could pull stats from Ryder's best 6 games too" is ridiculous.

We're obviously not going to agree on this, but please try to understand that I am not trying to knock Ryder, just merely trying to give Williams some weight in what is a much more balanced argument than some people are making it out to be.

Ryder = Future Gun
Williams = Future Gun

 

[Smyth94]

I get footy, and english by the looks, a whole lot better than you buddy.

My opinion is just as valid as yours. You are right, there are a number of variables which define a whole season and the reason why we are having this argument at all is because those variables are indeterminate. Our opinion is simply our interpretation of these variables.

I'm not claiming that Williams is so much better! I am saying that he's better, but I feel that he and Ryder are so close that I wouldn't be posting if it wasn't for the Nongs proclaiming Ryder to be comfortably better than Williams.

You're criticizing me for "what-ifs?" regarding the remainder of Williams' year and maintaining his standard, yet it is a much bigger what-if for those 6 games to be his best and for him to fade as he recovers more and more from his injury - just doesn't make sense buddy.

If Williams had played a full season I would wager that his best 6 games would include none of the ones he played except for his game on Franklin, so to say that "you could pull stats from Ryder's best 6 games too" is ridiculous.

We're obviously not going to agree on this, but please try to understand that I am not trying to knock Ryder, just merely trying to give Williams some weight in what is a much more balanced argument than some people are making it out to be.

Ryder = Future Gun
Williams = Future Gun

Apologies to you, I've been mainly responding to the "LOLZ Williams by a mile" type comments and your post highlighted some arguments I wanted to debate.

 

[ttomred17]

I'd put my house on Ryder being more athletically gifted than Williams

Ahahahahahaha sweet house

You obviously havnt watched much of tommy then have you??? be honest

I have seen lots of both as i watch as much football as possible and i would say tom

 

[bomberstomake8]

Ahahahahahaha sweet house

You obviously havnt watched much of tommy then have you??? be honest

I have seen lots of both as i watch as much football as possible and i would say tom

his house would be more then safe. ryder is as athletically gifted as they come

there are a lot of options worth debating here for example williams has the edge in toughness, strength etc but there is one thing that bulldogs supporters could not claim, that williams is more athletically gifted then ryder