Pav not leaving Freo

[dominguez]

When we could be getting a young player like Griffin/Hartlett and picks for him it just boggles why we don't ship Pavlich off to a club which will give him the success he deserves.

But we can't. The eagles got Josh Kennedy who was struggling at Carlton for the best player in the competition who was 23 years old.

Bulldogs wouldn't trade Griffin for Pavlich in a straight swap let alone throw in a top ten pick.

 

[Memories]

But we can't. The eagles got Josh Kennedy who was struggling at Carlton for the best player in the competition who was 23 years old.

Bulldogs wouldn't trade Griffin for Pavlich in a straight swap let alone throw in a top ten pick.

Says who? We have bargaining power here because at least 4 teams will want him and he is in contract. Judd was threatening to go into the PSD. Pavlich is very likely going to take any top 4 team into the grand final. Adelaide, Bulldogs and Port need someone like him desperately. Even Geelong needs a better key forward.

With a good midfield Pavlich is easily looking at 100+ goals a season and the other clubs would realize this. I for one would like to see him reach that even though it will be for another club simply because we aren't going to be competitive whilst he does it.

People who stick by players and not the club really annoy me.

 

[dominguez]

When's the last time a club traded a top young player who is contracted, it just doesn't happen.

Wells and a late first rounder in a 3 way deal would be a possibility but he is lazy and inconsistent like many of our current players.

 

[sabre_ac]

Its actually bordering on insulting the great man, considering he has resigned twice when both Adelaide clubs were in a much stronger position. His charecter cannot be questioned

Never under estimate the influence that the WA vs SA lifestyle and a WA missus have either.

 

[Lach72]

Could someone briefly summarise why keeping Pavlich at Freo is better for the club? Don't use the following reasons.

1) He will improve the youngsters development. Overrated concept.
2) He will stop us getting thrashed. He hasn't

When we could be getting a young player like Griffin/Hartlett and picks for him it just boggles why we don't ship Pavlich off to a club which will give him the success he deserves. And for compensation we get development prospects which is exactly what we need. We do not need Pavlich within the next 4 years, we need new young players that are the next Pavliches.

It boggles my mind that people think players are bigger than the club. If we want success, actual premiership success, we have to trade him at the end of this year. Seems to me people just want a small chance at success, we drafted one of the best players to play the game in 99 and we have won a single final thanks to it. Yes we traded badly, but they were all decent players at the time and we were trying to win, we didn't. Keeping the players who are past our window is the same thinking which made us trade for success in the first place, ie stupid thinking.

You seem to feel that one rules out the other...
I think a 30 year old Pavlich plonked in the goal square will still be a formidable force
I'd like to see how we go by keeping our draft picks.

And it should also be pointed out that a bird in the hand is worth 2 in the bush

 

[sabre_ac]

When's the last time a club traded a top young player who is contracted, it just doesn't happen.

Wells and a late first rounder in a 3 way deal would be a possibility but he is lazy and inconsistent like many of our current players.

Pass.

Well's will never step up to be the player everyone expect's him to be.

 

[Memories]

I'd like to see how we go by keeping our draft picks.

And it should also be pointed out that a bird in the hand is worth 2 in the bush

So you want to take a bigger risk for another 10 year bungle all on the "lets just draft and see" ? Aren't other clubs also doing this? Lets do the maths, soon there will be 18 teams trying to win it, you hope that a few picks that all the other clubs also get will see us to success? And why, because we have the best recruiters who can see talent that others cannot?

I cannot fathom why you think "doing as everyone else is doing and just hope our few picks are better than others few picks" will give us our greatest chance of success. We need to load up on picks more than other clubs if we want the chances stacked in our favour. How do we get more picks/chances? What did Hawthorn do to load up on picks?

 

[Sman-21]

Cant beleive this talk is still goin on.

Say we somehow got 2 top 5 picks for Pav(never gonna happen)
We cannot guarantee these guys will go on to be good players let alone great players its a huge stupid risk.
Its like trading $10000 for 2 lottery tickets that COULD win you $25mil.

You do not trade a star hoping to get lucky with a kid in the draft.

You trade your good players with value.
So if we want more highish draft picks we need to trade some good middle aged players on our list.

Like i said before the chance for young guys to play alongside a star of the game is great for them.
They might not learn a thing but they have no choice where they go, but it would make them feel so much better in a team with a star, than a team full of crap(melb).
Will use the force example again.
When giteua joined them other players saw he would be there an jumped at the chance to play alongside 1 of the games greats.
Now he is leaving they are all wanting to leave aswell an get back into the proper rugby states.

 

[Moo]

Could someone briefly summarise why keeping Pavlich at Freo is better for the club? Don't use the following reasons.

1) He will improve the youngsters development. Overrated concept.
2) He will stop us getting thrashed. He hasn't

Here you are and you're welcome.

OK….because:

• He is our best player …generally it is a good rule to keep your best players – if you must trade those on the wane or ones you have a surplus requirement for. Plus he is one of the best players in the competition and I would say easily the most versatile ..he can go forward, back and into the middle. They are kind of handy to have.

• He is not likely to realise the proper trade value. I know Memories you have this idea that if we offered Pav up we would be inundated with multiple players and/or picks – however really can't see it happening.

• If we go for picks ….there is no guarantee that we are not trading Pav for the next Tambling, Leigh Brown and Dylan Smith. No guarantees – keep Pavlich and you are almost guaranteed over the next few seasons 60+ games of the highest calibre and potentially up to another 40+ very solid games after that.

• I am obviously the only one who thinks that if Pav goes around to say he is 30 – 31 that we may just throw in a challenge for the finals post 2012. I want a flag – I think our chances are better with Pavlich in any side that contests finals. He can go forward, back or as Richo has shown an oldie can still influence a game by being thrown onto the ball. Palmer goes down in a GF …I’d love to be able to push the big unit onto the ball to win that must win clearance.

• We don’t know how long he has left in him but he is 27, and in his career he has missed in 2008 (3) games, 2007 (0), 2006 (0), 2005 (0), 2004 (0), 2003 (0), 2002 (0), 2001 (0), 2000 (4). He is the anti-Browne.

• McPharlin and Tarrant will pull the pin before Pav …so your key forwards (who take a looooong time to develop and even then that is if you get the right one) become who? A rookie listed forward who we hope comes good? (but is currently a ressie player at the bottom WAFL club) or Drum/Murphy/Campbell are suddenly going to be a force…or we draft some guys this year with early picks and hope like hell they are not Schultz or Moylan or Angwin? You fill it in for me. Or we keep Pavlich who will always draw the best defender – and in a similar way to Lynch for Brissie …a goal kicking key forward is gold. We have one lets not piss it away ….5 years of gold is worth 10 of bronze.

• We need to strengthen our midfield and I agree with you. I think however we have already started this process and the mids come through super quick compared to the KP’s. Palmer, Hinkley, Hill, Suban, Walters, Hall, De Boer and Mayne all represent strengthening of our midfield. Plus we have another draft to come before GC rape and pillage ….I am guessing we will go to the well again in terms of midfield strengthening.

• Finally we should keep Pavlich as you force premiership windows open and it is possible to be a bolter in this comp. Difference is you don’t rate our drafting this year – where I think it may just prove to be the best draft year ever …I can not recall so many favourable WAFL reports ever and these are young guys. Plus I look at Suban and Hill and just see class stamped across them.

• Finally - it annoys you Memories and this is as good as reason as I can think to keep him.

 

[Notorious_29]

So you want to take a bigger risk for another 10 year bungle all on the "lets just draft and see" ? Aren't other clubs also doing this? Lets do the maths, soon there will be 18 teams trying to win it, you hope that a few picks that all the other clubs also get will see us to success? And why, because we have the best recruiters who can see talent that others cannot?

I cannot fathom why you think "doing as everyone else is doing and just hope our few picks are better than others few picks" will give us our greatest chance of success. We need to load up on picks more than other clubs if we want the chances stacked in our favour. How do we get more picks/chances? What did Hawthorn do to load up on picks?

i would consider taking hartlett and a top pick a bigger risk. i cant fathom why you would want pavlich to be traded. if pavlich stays with freo i can see him playing to 33-35. he has missed 2-3 games in his whole career and never had a serious injury. he is the perfect professional, never gets in trouble and is at the peak of his personal fitness every season.

pavlich if playing at 33-35 will be playing in a very competitive team, if drafting and recruiting goes well.

can you imagine the team without him, no one else could lead the club.

 

[sabre_ac]

Why can't Pavlich do a Richo?

I expect the club to be right up in the thick of the final's action within 5 years....I think the great man has another 5 years in him, therefore he is part of our finals plans.

You don't trade your greatest player...Period...Would Geelong have even considered trading Ablett? Essendon trading Hird etc.

 

[Moo]

You don't trade your greatest player...Period...Would Geelong have even considered trading Ablett? Essendon trading Hird etc.

Yeah but that is why Geelong and Essendon never won flags.

 

[Memories]

Why can't Pavlich do a Richo?

I expect the club to be right up in the thick of the final's action within 5 years....I think the great man has another 5 years in him, therefore he is part of our finals plans.

Why do you think we will be playing finals? Faith? If we do the same as every other team we will likely end up average like them. It comes down to a lottery somewhat in regards to who will make the step up. If you want to play the lottery having more tickets increases your chances. We have just as much chance to become ninthmond or Freo of 2002-2008 with that strategy as we do of becoming Geelong.

It is just weird that people think holding onto picks and drafting is a sure fire way to grand final success. It is no where near that simple and is somewhat luck. People who think simple drafting and no trading == grand final are deluded.

BTW I don't want freo to be a team that wins a few finals, I want us to win the grand final. Maybe readjust your expectations because I'd rather ditch Pav and win a GF, than win a few finals with Pav at 33. Wouldn't you?

And to everyone saying Pavlich is our best player, so what? If we were going for a grand final during his peak years I would say we need him, but we aren't. And if you think we won't get anything decent so what? Put the offer out there and see what we do get, if all anyone offers is a round 2 pick, then we keep him. If people are falling over themselves to get him we do the deal.

Anyone who is loyal to a player isn't a supporter of Fremantle, they are a supporter of that player. Start being loyal to the club.

 

[Moo]

Why do you think we will be playing finals? Faith? If we do the same as every other team we will likely end up average like them. It comes down to a lottery somewhat in regards to who will make the step up. If you want to play the lottery having more tickets increases your chances. We have just as much chance to become ninthmond or Freo of 2002-2008 with that strategy as we do of becoming Geelong..

Geelong built their list through holding picks - wise drafting, having a plan and drafting towards that plan. They traded only to top up a position where they were deficient and have not traded a big, big name.

Hawks have built there list through holding picks - careful use of draft picks, identifying a game plan and playing towards that draft plan. They have traded a little more actively but trading Croad and Everitt (who wanted to go) is not in the league of trading Pavlich.

Sydney - now they have traded extensively.

WC built there great list by holding picks and selectively trading mid to lower tier players (unless forced otherwise).

We have been holding our picks for what 2 seasons? Look at the returns on that already - we have a very good recruiting team and especially appear good at finding late gems (probably forced to do so).

It is just weird that people think holding onto picks and drafting is a sure fire way to grand final success. It is no where near that simple and is somewhat luck. People who think simple drafting and no trading == grand final are deluded..

Has worked for others.

There are no GF guarantees - your theory of trading a known quantity for speculative picks is also risky ...in fact I think far riskier.

BTW I don't want freo to be a team that wins a few finals, I want us to win the grand final. Maybe readjust your expectations because I'd rather ditch Pav and win a GF, than win a few finals with Pav at 33. Wouldn't you?.

So do we - Memories you don't have a exclusive hold over wanting to win a flag.

To flip your point I'd rather hold Pav and win a flag than flog him off and have a squad of competive young mids with no forward focal point.

You run off and flog Pav off and replace him with a speculative mid and Jay Schults, Marcus Drum ...you are wasting years of a time when Palmer, Hill etc are able to join with McPharlin, Sandi, Pav and Hayden and force a flag window open.

And to everyone saying Pavlich is our best player, so what? If we were going for a grand final during his peak years I would say we need him, but we aren't. And if you think we won't get anything decent so what? Put the offer out there and see what we do get, if all anyone offers is a round 2 pick, then we keep him. If people are falling over themselves to get him we do the deal..

Pav at 75% is better than 90% of forwards going around.

Memories perhaps you could answer - who is your CHF in this flag tilt? Have we drafted him yet? When is your flag window open? Perhaps we should flog Palmer too for picks and load up for 2020?

Start being loyal to the club.

Agreed.

We all want what is best ...I am prepared to give this crazy notoion of keep your picks, trade your peripehral players if there is a market and keep your best players.

PS Memories I think you are now officially scared of the Moo Man.

 

[sabre_ac]

Yeah but that is why Geelong and Essendon never won flags.

Geelong had plenty of opportunity and the Don's won 2 during Hird's time...Thats not a bad return for a career.

What kind of message does it send our interstate recruits?

 

[Chris25]

Anyone who is loyal to a player isn't a supporter of Fremantle, they are a supporter of that player. Start being loyal to the club.

So basically Pavlich has stayed extremely loyal to the club by resisting the temptation to return home. But if we show the same loyalty towards him, then we aren't real supporters of the FFC. I'm afraid I don't follow.

 

[sabre_ac]

Why do you think we will be playing finals? Faith? If we do the same as every other team we will likely end up average like them. It comes down to a lottery somewhat in regards to who will make the step up. If you want to play the lottery having more tickets increases your chances. We have just as much chance to become ninthmond or Freo of 2002-2008 with that strategy as we do of becoming Geelong.

Pavlich isn't a lottery? Hes a proven entity...Not too sure what your arguement is here.

Trade our best ever player who more than likely will be around and still firing when we are a chance at a flag for a kid who potentially could go on to be as good as he is??

What exactly do you expect to recieve for him?

It is just weird that people think holding onto picks and drafting is a sure fire way to grand final success. It is no where near that simple and is somewhat luck. People who think simple drafting and no trading == grand final are deluded.

Trading former high draft picks who have reach their potential for draft picks when they are in their prime = insane.

Why would the likes of Mundy hang around if we gut the club and focus totally on 3 years time.

What kind of incentive is that to play for our club..Sorry guys, we have totally written off the next 2-3 years...Those of you in your prime, tough luck enjoy living your dream down the bottom.

Anyone who is loyal to a player isn't a supporter of Fremantle, they are a supporter of that player. Start being loyal to the club.

I think you need to research first the meaning of "culture" and then the value before you start talking in such black and white terms.

We're not supporting a bank here.

 

[Memories]

Moo most of your posts I don't feel worthy of replying to because they are like some others on here full of uneducated nonsense that will take many hours to fix if it ever can, so don't take offense if I don't. Right now I have some time for it.

Geelong built their list through holding picks - wise drafting, having a plan and drafting towards that plan. They traded only to top up a position where they were deficient and have not traded a big, big name.

Nope, they also had the old father-son picks, you know that little star player they have, rivaling Pavlich in quality. It was more than just drafting, but they did luck out on a few. They also traded for Ottens who played a key role in their premiership.

Hawks have built there list through holding picks - careful use of draft picks, identifying a game plan and playing towards that draft plan. They have traded a little more actively but trading Croad and Everitt (who wanted to go) is not in the league of trading Pavlich.

Oh wow, trading Croad got them Hodge, another key player in their team. Then they got Croad back for nothing. Please, it is MORE than just drafting using regular picks with both Geelong and Hawks.

Sydney - now they have traded extensively.

So that's 3 for the last 4 then that have wisely taken risks or had gifts given to them?

WC built there great list by holding picks and selectively trading mid to lower tier players (unless forced otherwise).

Yep, they lucked out big time with Judd. Getting the best player in the competition can turn an average team into a flag chance. They don't come around often though.

We have been holding our picks for what 2 seasons? Look at the returns on that already - we have a very good recruiting team and especially appear good at finding late gems (probably forced to do so).

Lots of other teams have done the same, some with much better development records. To think doing this alone somehow gaurantees success shows a little bit of ignorance, if I'm being nice. All these other teams also think they will win doing this, so who is right, you or them?

To flip your point I'd rather hold Pav and win a flag than flog him off and have a squad of competive young mids with no forward focal point.

I'd prefer to win a flag with Pav also, but we won't. The odds are so extremely bad for this that for you to even think it's a good chance or worthy of holding Pav for it tells me a lot.

You run off and flog Pav off and replace him with a speculative mid and Jay Schults, Marcus Drum ...you are wasting years of a time when Palmer, Hill etc are able to join with McPharlin, Sandi, Pav and Hayden and force a flag window open.

We draft a few using the picks we get for Pavlich, Mundy, MiJo, McPharlin etc. They will take 4-5 years to come on just in time for our midfield to hit its peak.

Pav at 75% is better than 90% of forwards going around.

Agreed, what's your point? Having Pavlich in our current team is like putting a V8 into a Datsun 120y.

We all want what is best ...I am prepared to give this crazy notoion of keep your picks, trade your peripehral players if there is a market and keep your best players.

It's only crazy to us, because we haven't done it yet, other teams have and failed. Trust me, if we don't start taking risks, in 10 years when we are shit again you won't know what the answer is because "we would have tried everything I thought of".

 

[Moo]

Geelong had plenty of opportunity and the Don's won 2 during Hird's time...Thats not a bad return for a career.

What kind of message does it send our interstate recruits?

I'm with you Sabre ....using your picks and building a team and then topping up when your close is the blue print for success that most clubs have used.

I mean we are 5 games into the season and I am thinking -
- Hill looks all class to me
- Suban is already a best 22 player
-Ballantyne the jury is out but of all the recruits he is the one who should have some impact
- Clarke I couldn't be happier with the reports on him (he was meant to be the project)
- Walters by all accounts has shed Kg's and is playing very solidly in the seniors
- Bucovaz - jury out/ Ruffles - jury out but I like hearing how brave a young guy is on his attack on the ball/Hall - jury out but again he is getting very solid reviews
Sibo - Project
De Boer - How the hell he went to rookie is beyond me
Shepheard - project but at least hes tall
Pearce - Excelling at WAFL (see De Boer)
Van Berlo - injured
Broughton - best 22

Not a bad draft so far.

Last year Palmer - gun, Hinkley - OK, Mayne - best 18.

Lets give em another year to replace the Brownes and Gilmores and lwe are going in the right direction.

 

[Moo]

Moo most of your posts I don't feel worthy of replying to because they are like some others on here full of uneducated nonsense that will take many hours to fix if it ever can, so don't take offense if I don't. Right now I have some time for it.

Memories trust me no offense will ever be taken.

I think the fact that it will take you hours to reply says more about how childish and simple your view of professional football is. Flog everyone finish last for a number of years and horde draft picks.

As Palmer waves goodbye to go to the Gold Coast and any other talented body forces a trade away from us as who really wants to tank/suck for a few seasons. Lets not make any mistakes here - what you are advocating would make what Melb served up on the weekend look like champagne football.

I have taken a consistent approach throughout the entire squad development of our club. Use the draft ...and apart from 1 or 2 seasons prior to Harvey we have made such a monumental stuff up of it.

Flipping back through your previous posts - I'd have to question if this is your view why is it coming to light now (though happy to be corrected). I've seen posts of yours to trade Headland and Schammer but not Pav before last season ....it has now grown to trade Pav, McPharlin, MJ etc.

Previously you wanted to cut/trade 9 ...that has now grown it appears to a good portion of the squad. Perhaps if you were stating this line previously I could take it a little more seriously.

I do mock you a little as I find it fun that someone who has such a high regard for his own intelligence honestly believes trading basically every good player we can over a certain age to load up on picks in a draft that is weaker than normal is a good idea.

I also find it comical that you write off a draft about 5 games into the season. Cameron Ling was a full forward, Gazza Jr was a flanker ...you would have had them out the door for Ryley Dunn on your premise of nothing but mids.

Seriously, it is very, very obvious that you have never coached sport or developed juniors at a high level (or ? any sort of level).

 

[Clay Davis]

Mammaries,

You don't build a successful club culture by trading away your best ever player and captain.

Thanks,

gravy

 

[MadMac]

Talking to Mammaries is like talking to a wall...

 

[Lach72]

So you want to take a bigger risk for another 10 year bungle all on the "lets just draft and see" ?

A bigger risk?

No i'd like to keep the best player we've ever had and the top 5 in the league adn develop our own kids

 

[longsuffreosupp]

How about we just trade him to Geelong for a season for a half decent midfielder, Pav take Geelong to a flag, and then trade back

 

[Keys]

I'd find it very surprising that our supporters haven't seen me be absolutely committed

I'm equally surprised that Pav hasn't already been committed after playing 200 games for your mob.

Can't believe that you would even consider trading him - I wish Judd had the same loyalty that Pav has shown.