Peter Dutton - How Long?

[QuietB]

Whoa. Settle down.

WTF mentioned 'invasion'? My post certainly didn't.

And yet you mentioned it half a dozen times in response to my post.

Way to miss the point mate.

This is 2022 not 1942.

No one is talking about imminent invasion from China or anyone else when they talk about maritime defence.

They are talking about our total dependence on maritime trade routes for our economic survival - exports and imports. Like the fact that, with the disappearance of refining capability, we only have 3 weeks of petroleum supply available for a continent that is totally dependent on road transport. As we are seeing right now where, due to covid impacts and recent floods, the lack of consistent supply of essential grocery items is causing chaos in supermarkets across the country.

Now imagine if those supply blockages were imposed between Australia and the rest of the world.

And that's where, as an island, Australia's capacity to protect our trade routes from disruption - via blockade or other means - is our biggest defensive threat.

NOT invasion.

But again, a handful of submarines is not protecting Australia's trade routes. And the thought that China would shut down our trade routes, if they do that we are already screwed because they are our major customer. If they shut down the trade route I assume they are not buying anymore.

And Australia should have been moving to electric vehicles and away from oil a long time ago. But that would "steal our weekend".

We are idiots. We have no idea how to actually plan for any of our potential threats.

 

[Festerz]

But again, a handful of submarines is not protecting Australia's trade routes.

Well you see that's where you are wrong.

The thing about submarines, good ones anyway, is their difficulty in being able to be detected. And the huge resources a potential enemy has to put into detecting them before they can take action to block our trade routes.

And yes. There are a lot of very smart people putting a lot of thought into 'planning for our potential threats'.

And no. The answer to complex real world issues isn't always 'electric cars'.

 

[Pessimistic]

This guy strokes Petas ego then ‘whack’




Very damning of defence under a defence minister who seemed to have unlimited power

And then making the election about defence when they ran a total shit show

 

[William Wonka]

Well you see that's where you are wrong.

The thing about submarines, good ones anyway, is their difficulty in being able to be detected. And the huge resources a potential enemy has to put into detecting them before they can take action to block our trade routes.

And yes. There are a lot of very smart people putting a lot of thought into 'planning for our potential threats'.

And no. The answer to complex real world issues isn't always 'electric cars'.

Historically subs have been more often used to disrupt than protect.

Taking out Merchant convoys and the naval vessels providing protection thereof are where they come into their own.

For trade route security improving our existing hunter/killer group capabilities makes far more sense.
Or maybe actually have a merchant navy to protect?

 

[Festerz]

This guy strokes Petas ego then ‘whack’




Very damning of defence under a defence minister who seemed to have unlimited power

And then making the election about defence when they ran a total shit show

Greg Sheridan is the guy who a few months ago famously reckoned that the Morrison/Dutton defence strategy couldn't stop a flotilla of penguins from invading Australia.

He pulled his punches on this one a little to protect his Sky pay check but his message is clear.

"Dutton's statement on subs is incoherent, makes no sense and lacks credibility"

That's as damning an assessment of a Liberal leader as you will ever get from Sheridan.

And gotta love the lame ass comment from Credlin - 'I agree there is blame on both sides of politics'

Peta dear, everything that Sheridan was talking about happened during the LNP government. There is no 'both sides' of politics for this clusterfeck. Your team wears it 100%. The contract with the French Government and Naval Group was developed, signed and ultimately cancelled under your watch at a cost of $5.5 billion to Australian taxpayers.

 

[Demonic Ascent]

This guy strokes Petas ego then ‘whack’




Very damning of defence under a defence minister who seemed to have unlimited power

And then making the election about defence when they ran a total shit show

"We'll all be speaking Chinese" what a dingbat

 

[Pessimistic]

No we’ll be speaking English with a Chinese accent

 

[Chief]

Some in here follow this more then I do. Is he telling the truth when he says all of this is in the public domain?

'Worked against the national interest': Anger at Peter Dutton's disclosure of submarine negotiations

Opposition Leader Peter Dutton's decision to divulge sensitive discussions with the United States on acquiring nuclear-powered submarines has sparked concern that he may have jeopardised plans for a joint agreement by year's end.

www.abc.net.au

 

[Sun Ra]

Some in here follow this more then I do. Is he telling the truth when he says all of this is in the public domain?

'Worked against the national interest': Anger at Peter Dutton's disclosure of submarine negotiations

Opposition Leader Peter Dutton's decision to divulge sensitive discussions with the United States on acquiring nuclear-powered submarines has sparked concern that he may have jeopardised plans for a joint agreement by year's end.

www.abc.net.au

Put it this way, if it was a public servant who said this stuff or was caught leaking it they would be stood down immediately
and later sacked and prosecuted.

 

[Ned_Flanders]

Some in here follow this more then I do. Is he telling the truth when he says all of this is in the public domain?

'Worked against the national interest': Anger at Peter Dutton's disclosure of submarine negotiations

Opposition Leader Peter Dutton's decision to divulge sensitive discussions with the United States on acquiring nuclear-powered submarines has sparked concern that he may have jeopardised plans for a joint agreement by year's end.

www.abc.net.au

Put it this way, if it was a public servant who said this stuff or was caught leaking it they would be stood down immediately
and later sacked and prosecuted.

yes and now

yes, its in public domain that australia is in discussions with the USA and UK about a future nuke sub platform

no, as no boat or manufacturer has yet been nominated or accept, and no agreement has been made about purchasing pre-existing boats (be it Virgina/Astute, or aging Los Angeles/Trafalgar)


The issue with Duttons statement is its the ultimate wish list

getting two premade Virginias is absolutely ideal, but this means getting the USN to agree to them giving them up. With the Sea Wolf and Los Angeles boats all approaching end of life, the USN is desperate to replace them post haste. The notion of giving them up is not going to happen.


This is why the talk has been about us trying to buy some aging Trafalgar or Los Angeles boats. Again, both navies need them as the new stock is still washing through, so even this is fraught with difficulty


Dutton has said he could do something he knows cannot be done by Labor

 

[Saint]

I think it's great. The LNP are talking complete and utter garbage. Not only are they wrong, everyone thinks they wasted billions on subs, the whole thing is a debacle. The fact that the LNP think this is still a winning topic for them just shows how out of touch they really are. Anyone who knows about subs knows they completely f'd up and nobody else cares.

I think the best we can all do is continue to ignore them. Which, more importantly means that their sycophantic reporters will get less clicks and many will lose their jobs. Can you imagine what Phil Coorey's career will look like when the best leak he can get is from a bunch of opposition back-benchers offices about irrelevant LNP infighting?

Let the LNP and Murdoch/Costello keep banging on about stuff nobody cares about and we'll enjoy their slide into oblivion while the ALP gets on with the job.

Even if tempted to click on an article to see how stupid it is, resist.

 

[Crankyhawk]

But again, a handful of submarines is not protecting Australia's trade routes. And the thought that China would shut down our trade routes, if they do that we are already screwed because they are our major customer. If they shut down the trade route I assume they are not buying anymore.

And Australia should have been moving to electric vehicles and away from oil a long time ago. But that would "steal our weekend".

We are idiots. We have no idea how to actually plan for any of our potential threats.

I think he is referencing the possiblity of direct attacks on maritime trade rather than the boycott and trade barrier type actions being used by China currently

or direct piracy funded by state actors

 

[Gough]

Dutton seems to think Labor were elected to continue the Coalition policy agenda.

 

[GreyWind]

Dutton seems to think Labor were elected to continue the Coalition policy agenda.

McGowan calling Dutton "not that smart" is seeming like a bit of an understatement right now.

 

[Festerz]

Some in here follow this more then I do. Is he telling the truth when he says all of this is in the public domain?

'Worked against the national interest': Anger at Peter Dutton's disclosure of submarine negotiations

Opposition Leader Peter Dutton's decision to divulge sensitive discussions with the United States on acquiring nuclear-powered submarines has sparked concern that he may have jeopardised plans for a joint agreement by year's end.

www.abc.net.au

Dutton's comment that the US offered up the possibility of 2 boats currently under construction for the use by Australia was definitely NOT in the public domain.

The mere suggestion that the US was seemingly prepared to hand over 2 of its highly prized front line defence assets to a foreign power would have severely embarrassed the US government politically.

And it makes us look like utter idiots for having a Defence Minister who thought that it would actually happen. And who is prepared to hold a press conference to tell the world what went on in secret negotiations with their major allies on a major defence contract.

Reckon more than a few top brass in the US and UK are now seriously rethinking the idea that handing over their top secret nuclear technology to Australia is a good idea.

 

[Gough]

McGowan calling Dutton "not that smart" is seeming like a bit of an understatement right now.

Say what you like about ScoMo or Albo, if you're better known as Spud it would seem unlikely you'll ever get the sort of respect needed to be elected PM.

 

[Festerz]

McGowan calling Dutton "not that smart" is seeming like a bit of an understatement right now.

"Dangerously Dumb" would be my terminology.

 

[FredLeDeux]

Reckon more than a few top brass in the US and UK are now seriously rethinking the idea that handing over their top secret nuclear technology to Australia is a good idea.

The chances of the US Congress ever agreeing to that happening have always been zero, to the nearest order of magnitude.

And now they're less.

 

[Ned_Flanders]

The chances of the US Congress ever agreeing to that happening have always been zero, to the nearest order of magnitude.

And now they're less.

we are coming up to mid terms, there is still nervousness about releasing USA nuke tech to us (let alone made for USA subs), and we do this...

 

[Festerz]

And Dutton has not only severely pissed off the US but also the Brits - describing their Astute class boats as 'problematic'.

How the Times is reporting his comments:

Australia was set to snub ‘problematic’ British Astute-class submarines

Australia was ready to snub Britain and buy nuclear submarines from the US when the government lost office three weeks ago, the country’s former defence minis

www.thetimes.co.uk

First the French and now the US and UK.

'How to Win Friends and Influence People' by Peter 'Spud' Dutton

 

[Saint]

Dutton's comment that the US offered up the possibility of 2 boats currently under construction for the use by Australia was definitely NOT in the public domain.

The mere suggestion that the US was seemingly prepared to hand over 2 of its highly prized front line defence assets to a foreign power would have severely embarrassed the US government politically.

And it makes us look like utter idiots for having a Defence Minister who thought that it would actually happen. And who is prepared to hold a press conference to tell the world what went on in secret negotiations with their major allies on a major defence contract.

Reckon more than a few top brass in the US and UK are now seriously rethinking the idea that handing over their top secret nuclear technology to Australia is a good idea.

I'm old enough to remember when Peter Dutton said they didn't consult Labor on the AUKUS agreement (when the yanks asked them to) because the ALP couldn't be trusted with secrets.

Now he's going to cry and whinge every time the ALP don't consult him on things because he goes and cries to the media about national security secrets.

The man is far less competent than I thought.

Everyone thought he was going to be a great opposition leader, just attacking like Abbott (then woeful in Govt). Well Dutton has the woeful in Govt part sorted, but geez he's missing the mark when it comes to being a good attack dog.

He's spending his whole time reminding people how badly the LNP stuffed up a bunch of things.

I don't think he'll last past 3 opinion polls. The LNP aren't used to not being the preferred PM.

 

[Festerz]

The chances of the US Congress ever agreeing to that happening have always been zero, to the nearest order of magnitude.

And now they're less.

Yes.

This was all revealed in this tweet from Rex Patrick yesterday morning that I linked previously which included a link to a detailed US congress paper published just 6 weeks ago on this very issue:

https://sgp.fas.org/crs/weapons/RL32418.pdf

 

[Demonic Ascent]

I'm old enough to remember when Peter Dutton said they didn't consult Labor on the AUKUS agreement (when the yanks asked them to) because the ALP couldn't be trusted with secrets.

Now he's going to cry and whinge every time the ALP don't consult him on things because he goes and cries to the media about national security secrets.

The man is far less competent than I thought.

Everyone thought he was going to be a great opposition leader, just attacking like Abbott (then woeful in Govt). Well Dutton has the woeful in Govt part sorted, but geez he's missing the mark when it comes to being a good attack dog.

He's spending his whole time reminding people how badly the LNP stuffed up a bunch of things.

I don't think he'll last past 3 opinion polls. The LNP aren't used to not being the preferred PM.

He has all the political nous of a Queensland copper, I mean seriously what did anyone expect?

 

[Chief]

Now he's going to cry and whinge every time the ALP don't consult him on things because he goes and cries to the media about national security secrets.

He has put Labor in a position where they cannot trust him to keep his mouth shut, and have to look like hypocrites by not sharing intelligence with him.

4D chess, bruh.

 

[Al Heimer]

Has to be a photo of Trump taped to every mirror in the Spud household so he can see himself as he wants to be.

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