Petition: Sign here for Cotchin

Jabba73

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Says the NAB rising star voters.

Cotchin came 3rd playing only 15 games. Kreuzer game 5th from memory (maybe 4th) playing close to the whole season.

Says the bookies and punters (bookies and punters have never been wrong before), who had Cotchin at $31 to win the rising star and had Kreuzer at $51.

Says 70% of the people on the polls board:

http://www.bigfooty.com/forum/showthread.php?t=514403&highlight=kreuzer+cotchin&page=1

And that's asking who suited Carlton better, not who had the better year.

I'm not sure why I brought it up because it doesn't matter who was ahead after year 1 or 2, only year 3 and beyond.

Having said that I thought you would be unbiased enough to admit that Cotch was ahead after year 1, with Kreuzer clearly being ahead after year 2.

Year 3 I can accept you saying Kreuzer, but I generally don't rate ruckmen full stop and rate them almost solely on their work around the ground.



How'd that last one work out?

The one about Richmond being in a good position to attract some opposition players?:D



I generally don't rate ruckmen that highly, because even the tap work of the best is pretty horrible and often to disadvantage. Cotchins work around the ground is better than Kreuzers hence why I rate him higher. I also think Kreuzer's a bit overated as a forward. He's a handy option but probably no better than most other big guys who cause mismatches with their height.
Okay we get it. You don't rate ruckmen. Luckily for you, your team doesn't have any on its list for you to worry about.

Kreuzer is overrated as a forward - wtf?- he is a ruckman who goes forward. Understand he is in the side for his ruckwork. The rest of what he is able to do is a bonus that noone on your list provides.


You rate Cotchins work around the ground as better that Kreuzers. NEWSFLASH: That is what a midfielder is supposed to do and is what they get rated on. I would like to know what you base this on.

Kreuzer averages more goals and tackles per game than Cotchin. These are two of the key statistics for midfielders. Cotchin doesn't need to worry about hit outs and he still is behind Kreuzer in these very important statistics. It doesn't say much about Cotchins work around the ground being superior when he only averages 6 more disposals per game and only has one role to play.
 

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thylacine60

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I'd say 27 would generally be refered to as 30 odd, rather than 20 odd. When you round off, if it's over 5 you generally go up. Plus prostats has it listed as 29.


We're used to you pulling from your arsehole but trusting a walnut sized gland for information leaves you somewhat vulnerable to criticism. No this is not a souvlaki.
 
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Kreuzer is overrated as a forward - wtf?- he is a ruckman who goes forward. Understand he is in the side for his ruckwork. The rest of what he is able to do is a bonus that noone on your list provides.
I am award of that. I think when he does go forward the work he does gets overated. Most other rucks (even the average) are good up forward.

Kreuzer averages more goals and tackles per game than Cotchin. These are two of the key statistics for midfielders. Cotchin doesn't need to worry about hit outs and he still is behind Kreuzer in these very important statistics. It doesn't say much about Cotchins work around the ground being superior when he only averages 6 more disposals per game and only has one role to play.
That's my point. Cotchin gets it just under 20 times a game, while Kreuzer gets it 12ish times a game. The slight difference in tackles/goals doesn't make up for the extra 7-8 touches Cotch gets.

Hitout and Hitouts to advantage are pointless if you don't also include hitouts to disadvantage.

Again it's not me hating on Kreuzer, it's just that I don't rate the work ruckmen do in hitouts.
 

Jabba73

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I am award of that. I think when he does go forward the work he does gets overated. Most other rucks (even the average) are good up forward.

Except the "rucks" in your side.
That's my point. Cotchin gets it just under 20 times a game, while Kreuzer gets it 12ish times a game. The slight difference in tackles/goals doesn't make up for the extra 7-8 touches Cotch gets.

Cotchin gets 6 more touches a game 18-12 on average. Given his primary role is to either use the ball or stop his opponent, 6 more touches but less tackles is not something to boast about.

Kreuzers role is to bring the ball to the ground to the advantage of his teammates. He is not in the primary contest for the ball at stoppages as the holding the ball rule is instantly invoked for ruckmen who take possession in the contest. Given he only has one touch less for every 20 minutes of game time yet has more tackles and goals, he is clearly ahead of Cotchin, even though you completely disregard the work he does in his primary role in the team.

Cotchin averages 18 disposals a game, not good enough for a midfielder given his disposal efficiency is not 100%. Just like Kreuzers hitout efficiency is not 100%.

Hitout and Hitouts to advantage are pointless if you don't also include hitouts to disadvantage.

Again it's not me hating on Kreuzer, it's just that I don't rate the work ruckmen do in hitouts.
Using your logic, we need to include points kicked as turnovers as the opposition gets the ball once you kick a point. If that is the case, your full forward gives the ball away once for every two goals he kicks. Given that he averages just under two goals a game, he is useless to the side as he gives it away half as much as he helps with scoring. As he averages less disposals than Kreuzer I gather you will be happy for him to play in the reserves all year.:rolleyes:
 

Silvagnis

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Can I still sign the petition for Kreuzer?

Don't know why this thread is still open.

If you talked to Richmond fans, they'd probably even prefer a Martin or Deledio to Kreuzer.

The only thing funnier than talking down Kreuzer is their claim that Riewoldt should have been the first player drafted in 2006.

I guess the Tambling selection has left them permanently scarred.
 

W. Smithers

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You're a moron. Attracting players is getting the likes of Nick Stevens, Chris Judd, Brock McLean and Lachlan Henderson, not guys like Shaun Grigg, Brad Miller and Bachar Houli. :eek:
lol, Stevens didn't want to play for you.

McLean and Henderson, talk about scraping the bottom of the barrel.

Grigg cost us a skinny, run of the mill player who was pick #73 in the draft, Houli a PSD pick and Miller a mature rookie spot.

We got a very valuable compo pick for Tambling (could have been yours if those clowns Icke and Swann didn't overrate Jacobs).

A successful trade period if you ask me.
 

W. Smithers

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If you talked to Richmond fans, they'd probably even prefer a Martin or Deledio to Kreuzer.

The only thing funnier than talking down Kreuzer is their claim that Riewoldt should have been the first player drafted in 2006.
If Kreuzer made it to us at #2, we were no certainties to take him, we had concerns over his injury prone body. Hip surgery and a knee injury suffered in a non-contact situation already in his short career screams to me Schwarz and Coughlan.

First or second, a toss up between him or Selwood.
 

Sin City

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McLean and Henderson, talk about scraping the bottom of the barrel.
:eek::eek:

Those two would probably be more talented than the entire Richmond list. You must've forgotten the demolition job McLean did to your midfield in round one. Flog.


Grigg cost us a skinny, run of the mill player who was pick #73 in the draft, Houli a PSD pick and Miller a mature rookie spot.
The sad thing is that although they're VFL standard, they'll probably be the three best drilled players on your list.
 

Blueboys7

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Do any of these Richmond fans even understand how ruckman develop? I'd probably say no because they have hardly had one in the last decade.

Kruezer is ahead of Cotchin now, which is saying something considering Kruezer has a way to go when filling his body out to the point where he can go all day in the ruck. Cotchin is a good player and could be great but Kruezer will be far more valuable.
 

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Sin City

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Henderson better than Riewoldt, maybe if they had a 'let's see who can drop the most marks' contest.
To be honest it wouldn't surprise many if Riewoldt turned out to be a failure from now on thanks to be the poor player development and culture at Richmond. I think everyone agrees Henderson has shown the makings of a future star CHF in his first year at Carlton.
 
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Can I still sign the petition for Kreuzer?

Don't know why this thread is still open.

If you talked to Richmond fans, they'd probably even prefer a Martin or Deledio to Kreuzer.

The only thing funnier than talking down Kreuzer is their claim that Riewoldt should have been the first player drafted in 2006.

I guess the Tambling selection has left them permanently scarred.
2nd or 3rd. Most would still rate Selwood #1, with some having Frawley at 2.

If Kreuzer made it to us at #2, we were no certainties to take him, we had concerns over his injury prone body. Hip surgery and a knee injury suffered in a non-contact situation already in his short career screams to me Schwarz and Coughlan.

First or second, a toss up between him or Selwood.
What?

I don't know if you meant Scott or Joel, but wrong either way.

To be honest it wouldn't surprise many if Riewoldt turned out to be a failure from now on thanks to be the poor player development and culture at Richmond. I think everyone agrees Henderson has shown the makings of a future star CHF in his first year at Carlton.
Wow. And you called me a moron before.

You do realise this is the same player development team that got him to were he is now?
 

Sin City

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Wow. And you called me a moron before.

You do realise this is the same player development team that got him to were he is now?
That's because you are a moron that thinks Cotchin may have performed as well as Kreuzer, Taylor, Rioli and Mumford. :eek:

That same player development team has crippled the careers of so many talented young players it's not funny, it wouldn't surprise anyone if they did it again.

He only kicked so many goals last year because the team does not have any other forward options at all. At the completion of two five year rebuilds the team only had one player capable of kicking over fifteen goals for the year, what a joke.
 

Blueboys7

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Sin, you know that Riewoldt's a gun. There is no reason to talk down how good his performance has been.

Richmond Football Club though, well that's a totally different scenario.
 

Sin City

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Sin, you know that Riewoldt's a gun. There is no reason to talk down how good his performance has been.
Where did I say anything at all about his performances so far? Come on, anything at all?

Have a look on the main board, I'm usually defending him as I've known him for years. Doesn't mean I don't expect Richmond to find new ways to turn gold into shit.
 

Silvagnis

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2nd or 3rd. Most would still rate Selwood #1, with some having Frawley at 2.
First or second, a toss up between him or Selwood.
LOL.

Do you think we would swap Gibbs for Riewoldt using hindsight? :D

Gibbs is a jet.

Keep the humour coming.

I watched the round one match this week.

In the last quarter, Houlihan spoiled Riewoldt in a mismatch and marking contest thirty out. :eek: :D

Wouldn't be going out on a limb to say that Richmond would have leapt at the chance to get Gibbs, Selwood, Leuenberger, Hansen, Gumbleton or Boak.

Your trolls are as bad as your footy club.
McLean and Henderson, talk about scraping the bottom of the barrel.
Both smashed your bottom two side in 2010.

Maybe you should pray that Martin doesn't follow the path of manchilds like Mclean, Hodge, Sylvia, etc, who have broken down.
If Kreuzer made it to us at #2, we were no certainties to take him, we had concerns over his injury prone body. Hip surgery and a knee injury suffered in a non-contact situation already in his short career screams to me Schwarz and Coughlan.
Right.

You could have picked Palmer who had a knee reconstruction. ;)

Ben Griffiths says hello.

Two shoulder reconstructions already, yet is pumped up as a star on your board.

When you're hopeless and still bottom two like Richmond, youth and potential is all footy supporters have to live off each round.
 

amcre

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To be honest it wouldn't surprise many if Riewoldt turned out to be a failure from now on thanks to be the poor player development and culture at Richmond. I think everyone agrees Henderson has shown the makings of a future star CHF in his first year at Carlton.
Ha ha that is quality...thanks for that!
 
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LOL.

Do you think we would swap Gibbs for Riewoldt using hindsight? :D

Gibbs is a jet.

Keep the humour coming.
And what, Riewoldt isn't?

Considering you have a number of good midfielders and are in need of a tall forward, I'd say your club would at least consider to coleman winning AA full forward.

*I'm not going to respond to any suggestions Jack is the new Fev.

I watched the round one match this week.

In the last quarter, Houlihan spoiled Riewoldt in a mismatch and marking contest thirty out. :eek: :D
And I watched a game where Gibbs was worried out of a contest by Milne. Both those points are irrelevent to the players ability.

Are you suggesting Riewoldt isn't a strong mark? He's one of the best markers in the league.
 

parrot

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Preseason and guess what? Richmond supporters talking up their basket case disaster of a Club knowing they won't be held accountable for 5 months. Some things just don't change.

I think the AFL should fine Bleakmond for every 50+ point loss in 2011, for bringing the game into disrepute. And double fines for 100+ point losses. We've all had enough of this rabble.

:)
 

Jason_K

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God Richmond supporters are wankers.

Year after year after year all their players seem to turn into champions in the off-season and then duds after the first round.

Amazingly stupid supporters, fall for it every time.

What the **** is so special about Cotchin anyway, just your typical good-but-not-great type vanilla midfielder. Seen plenty of them over the years. Will be a good, solid player but no champion. Massively overrated due to the lack of talent down at Punt Rd.

Kreuzer on the other hand is one out of the box.
 

Silvagnis

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Quality bump. :rolleyes:

Sin City should ask the Richmond mods to allow him back onto their board.

They like to stick the knife into players on their board.

Yet their ferals claim the Carlton mods are heavy handed.
Mods, can this thread be locked?
Would be three years too late.
 
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