PJ's last three weeks

[Bartram_Class]

Have all been terrific.

Convincingly beat Taylor today, after breaking even with Hudson and narrowly losing out to Cox. 20, 22 and 21 touches respectively in his last three games and his efficiency is well up from his lacklustre start to the year.

His challenge will be with the return of the Russian (which could be as soon as next week), but if he can bob up with a goal or two (as he did today, great mark), then he'll be more than carrying his weight.

Gardiner and King next week will be another challenge, I think he's up for it.

 

[Deefolt]

he impresses me, i like him, i like his left kick, its quite good

 

[Dez!]

He's been great around the ground but saying he beat Taylor is not right, he may have got more possessions but Taylor beat him convincingly in the ruck.

Sure PJ had 25 hitouts to Taylors 20 but a hell of a lot more of Taylors taps resulted in goals, Taylor was more effective.

 

[Bartram_Class]

Sure PJ had 25 hitouts to Taylors 20 but a hell of a lot more of Taylors taps resulted in goals, Taylor was more effective.

The only way Taylor gets credit for goals from clearances if it he sharks his own work and then hits a teammate on the chest inside 50. The ruckman can only get the ball down to his men, so you can't fault PJ for having lesser able midfielders at his feet.

I would take your point re. effectiveness if Hawthorn had clearly won the clearances, but they were 32-28, which is pretty even.

Therefore, even when you add that slight clearance advantage (and remember Sewell and Mitchell are two of the best clearance workers in the comp.) to Taylor's 10 possies and 20 HO's, it doesn't come close to PJ's 22 touches, 25 HO's and the goal to boot.

PJ wins this one thanks.

 

[Dez!]

It doesn't matter what the clearances were, half of our clearances were useless because we butchered the ball after the clearance, while the Hawks midfield and Taylor had a plan in which Taylor executed very well with his tap work.

Taylor and the Hawks midfield had a plan which Taylor effected with his tap work while we had a bunch of *******s roving the tap work of a ******* tap ruckman.

 

[Bartram_Class]

It doesn't matter what the clearances were, half of our clearances were useless because we butchered the ball after the clearance, while the Hawks midfield and Taylor had a plan in which Taylor executed very well with his tap work.

Taylor and the Hawks midfield had a plan which Taylor effected with his tap work while we had a bunch of *******s roving the tap work of a ******* tap ruckman.

Tapwork is overrated. The only plan I've ever seen work is Brendon Lade who used to tap it over the back of the pack to Shaun Burgoyne from boundary throw-ins.

Other than that, I reckon the only "plan" is to vaguely direct it in the direction of a player in your team. After that, its hell for leather and the stronger, harder players win out.

 

[Beats]

Tapwork is overrated. The only plan I've ever seen work is Brendon Lade who used to tap it over the back of the pack to Shaun Burgoyne from boundary throw-ins.

Other than that, I reckon the only "plan" is to vaguely direct it in the direction of a player in your team. After that, its hell for leather and the stronger, harder players win out.

I cbf, but someone look up the effective hitouts stat.
Pj was even at best today.

 

[Dez!]

Tapwork is overrated. The only plan I've ever seen work is Brendon Lade who used to tap it over the back of the pack to Shaun Burgoyne from boundary throw-ins.

Other than that, I reckon the only "plan" is to vaguely direct it in the direction of a player in your team. After that, its hell for leather and the stronger, harder players win out.

Did you not watch the game today?

Taylor gets the tap behind to Mitchell and then Mitchell would either kick and clear if he had the space or handball to another in space who could clear it.

It was most definitely a plan and a plan that worked.

 

[Bartram_Class]

Did you not watch the game today?

Taylor gets the tap behind to Mitchell and then Mitchell would either kick and clear if he had the space or handball to another in space who could clear it.

It was most definitely a plan and a plan that worked.

Mitchell standing with opponent, Mitchell pushes opponent under the ball, Taylor taps it to where Mitchell (and opponent) is standing, Mitchell takes the ball away.

If said opponent is stronger, and has half a brain, he sharks that ball and takes it away or at the very least, negates the tap.

Credit goes to Mitchell, not to Taylor. A plan yes, but doesn't make Taylor any better a ruckman than Johnson (who in the opposite situation may tap it to Jones in the same situation, but when Jones inevitably fumbles and Sewell takes it away, Hawthorn get the clearance and according to you, the plaudits).

PJ ends the game with more hit-outs, no doubt he had a plan too, it just wasn't carried out as well, because his midfielders aren't as capable as those of Taylors.

Dean Cox is widely seen as the best ruckman in the competition, and its not because his team necessarily have good plans at the stoppages, in fact what I've seen of WC this year has been pitiful in the middle of the ground. A ruckman is expected to do a lot more these days.

 

[demonfan9]

Has had a good patch of form lately, but is just as likely to go missing soon.

He's an ordinary tap ruckman, but has a big enough frame to physically make a contest. He also racks up the disposals around the ground, but seems to struggle whenever he rests in the forward line.

 

[master bate]

The hawks best clearance was from a boundary throw in when it came of PJ's head and went straight to a hawk who kicked a goal. He did alright, but I still think he needs to improve his ruck work, and to be a marking target for the high long kick around the ground.

Last 3 weeks have showed he is one of the best mobile rucks in the comp though, certainly doing more than White did after about 2004.

 

[davey_magik]

The hawks best clearance was from a boundary throw in when it came of PJ's head and went straight to a hawk who kicked a goal. He did alright, but I still think he needs to improve his ruck work, and to be a marking target for the high long kick around the ground.

Last 3 weeks have showed he is one of the best mobile rucks in the comp though, certainly doing more than White did after about 2004.

Harsh on PJ in that particular clearance. It was Bruce's fault for not being goal-side on Bateman.

We had a 3 on 1 on that side of the contest, and since Bruce wasn't goal-side Bateman ran into an easy goal.

 

[Flashhh]

I'm gunna be honest, I dont think much of Johnson and no I haven't read the stats or who got more hitouts but I've been to every game bar Subi and AAMI this year and feel that he is nowhere near a number one ruckman and would struggle in the number two position.
His ruck work isn't great as we rarely get first use of the pill while around the ground which is supposed to be his big strength he has the tendancy to.... F*CK THINGS UP! The run along the members wing where had the chance to give it off but kept going and the kick was smothered was just a joke. Then in the last qtr the ball on the logo members side he just had to tap it forward to one our guys yet he falls over and sits on the ball, I mean its just laughable. Im not even gunna mention the ball hitting him in the head for the Bateman goal as it was Bruce being lazy which resulted in the goal.

 

[Colin Grigson]

I'm gunna be honest, I dont think much of Johnson and no I haven't read the stats or who got more hitouts but I've been to every game bar Subi and AAMI this year and feel that he is nowhere near a number one ruckman and would struggle in the number two position.
His ruck work isn't great as we rarely get first use of the pill while around the ground which is supposed to be his big strength he has the tendancy to.... F*CK THINGS UP! The run along the members wing where had the chance to give it off but kept going and the kick was smothered was just a joke. Then in the last qtr the ball on the logo members side he just had to tap it forward to one our guys yet he falls over and sits on the ball, I mean its just laughable. Im not even gunna mention the ball hitting him in the head for the Bateman goal as it was Bruce being lazy which resulted in the goal.

Opinions RE: Johnson seem to be really polarized amongst MFC supporters. Some are rating him, but others like you and me think he's a liability.

I think he contests well in the ruck, i mean he has a physical presence, and that's probably reflected in the stats, but he has the skills and decision making capabilities of a donkey most of the time...

No offence PJ ...

 

[Simon_Nesbit]

Taylor is universally hated on the Hawk board (indeed it seems most hawk places). He's actually having a pretty good year in the ruck, and whilst he beat Johnson in controlling the ruck (and direct taps, goal assist taps, etc) I was impressed with Johnson's work around the ground.

It's a matter of balance - Hawthorn generally gets a lot of effective clearances, though usually lose the clearance count overall, as we rely on handball to find the clear player more than most teams.

I've seen Taylor in two hawk fans votes. I've seen Johnson in almost every Melbourne votes. I personally thought the matchup was pretty even - Taylor won the ruck marginally, Johnson better around the ground.

 

[Mr Controversy]

Hit outs are one thing and so are disposals but its how he uses the pill which you should be analysing him on. He makes alot of errors and his decision making lets him down a bit. Im very suspect of him but his efforts the last few weeks have been better. We do need a quality ruckmen though

 

[Fairtex09]

Hit outs are one thing and so are disposals but its how he uses the pill which you should be analysing him on. He makes alot of errors and his decision making lets him down a bit. Im very suspect of him but his efforts the last few weeks have been better. We do need a quality ruckmen though

hardly any ruckmen are elite in the skills.

 

[RandB]

Injuries to other ruckmen has meant that his longer stints at the bounces/throw-ins has improved his tap work marginally so this is a small plus for him. Around the ground he still isn't playing effectively as a bigman but more as a utility. We are still crying out for a tall player who can take pack marks around the ground and is smart at set plays.

His disposal is not too bad but he seems to prefer to go the harder option or situations out of his grasp too often - almost to see if he can pull it off. He needs to keep his options simple and utilise other players when they run past a bit more but all in all he hasn't been too bad considering the work load.

 

[DemonErrol1964 - dees]

Jesus christ Demon fans, Why not just trade him, We done Jolly, Simmonds, Get real FCS. Paul is showing something, get behind the guy instead of bagging him. He has been tremendous the last 3 weeks.

He did not win the Liston after 6 games? being a dud.

This is the first year he has hit the pill hard, and the typical hypocrite posters keep on bagging.

 

[Simon_Nesbit]

Ran to receive the ball 10 times. Every other ruckman on the ground = 8. Fair effort that. Cox averages about 15, most other rucks (from what I can tell) are under 10. IIRC he did t to us previously too.

If he can get 15-20 possessions a game, he only needs to be competitive in the ruck to be a worthwhile contributor. (We had 5 goals direct from clearances when he was up against Taylor - he got 3 back against Campbell, but needs to work on disrupting opposing ruck even when losing the tap - that will come with experience).

 

[DemonErrol1964 - dees]

Cheers for you post Simon, but I bet our demon BF fans disagree. Very sad.

 

[Bartram_Class]

Ran to receive the ball 10 times. Every other ruckman on the ground = 8. Fair effort that. Cox averages about 15, most other rucks (from what I can tell) are under 10. IIRC he did t to us previously too.

If he can get 15-20 possessions a game, he only needs to be competitive in the ruck to be a worthwhile contributor. (We had 5 goals direct from clearances when he was up against Taylor - he got 3 back against Campbell, but needs to work on disrupting opposing ruck even when losing the tap - that will come with experience).

Informative, balanced and analytical, well played sir.

PJ is not a tap ruckman, he would be a more than capable 2nd ruck but is being forced through injury to assume the main mantle and doing a pretty fine job at remaining competitive. Time some posters on here started appreciating it.

 

[DemonErrol1964 - dees]

I cannot add any more BC. I do watch hard.

 

[lose]

as said on here he is not and probably never will be a no 1 ruck... just dont think hes tall enough or have big enough leap.. think hes been bloody good last few weeks though, although does try to do a little to much around the ground... doesnt take the easy option enough... but hes showing good signs, hope he keeps improving...

meesen is our best ruckman as far as im concerned... amazingly he came from nowhere and its massively disappointing he got injured because think him and johnson could form a really good partnership...

 

[RandB]

Informative, balanced and analytical, well played sir.

PJ is not a tap ruckman, he would be a more than capable 2nd ruck but is being forced through injury to assume the main mantle and doing a pretty fine job at remaining competitive. Time some posters on here started appreciating it.

That is quite true, his efforts have been fantastic (many of us found votes for him this week) and he is going to be a better 2nd ruckman as a result.

However: "If he can get 15-20 possessions a game, he only needs to be competitive in the ruck to be a worthwhile contributor." Sounds good in theory but a little trivial. Just because PJ is not a tap ruckman does not automatically excuse him from all the aspects of a tall player's game. We don't have him in the team to run around like a utility to get possies - we have about 12 other blokes who can do that, they are called midfielders.

PJ is in the team because he is 199 cm and besides hitouts he has the physical attributes such that he should take pack marks or at least force disputed balls to advantage at marking duels, spoil goals on the goal line from opposition set shots, be a go to man from kick outs like White once was and use the players around him to advantage when in possession. Also if we are going to hang our hat on the fact that he may get 15 - 20 possessions a game then why shouldn't he come under the same scrutiny with how he uses the ball as any other player?

The work load PJ is currently carrying atm is huge, he is doing very well and I obviously don't expect 1 man to do everything I have mentioned as a lone hand - these are simply examples. However, let's not forget the main reason he is in the team, this is all I have ever raised. The last three weeks have been impressive due to his effort but racking up possies which can easily be done by another player and going for pin point passes which aren't there seems to have skewed people's understanding of the role of a ruckman albeit a 2nd "non-tap" ruckman. The big question is, given his tap work still isn't that great (improving though), what does PJ offer on top of his tapwork that most other players don't? I ask this question in the context of playing 2 rucks as is the norm. The reality is that there isn't much at all and why is this the reality? simply because he plays as a utility and not a tall player. Time some posters on here started realising it.

I like PJ and if he can have a greater impact around the ground as a tall player then he will quite simply be one of our most valuable players. Nobody is questioning his effort or love of the guernsey here just applying a little bit of relevant analysis to him as a tall player. His contribution the last 3 weeks has been mammoth but we can still outline where he can do better especially once we have another ruckman back in the side.