Opinion Player trades / 'go home' factor - when does a player have a right to nominate a club or not?

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ThePhreshOne

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Yes your insults when you started trolling his club were uncalled for.
How do you like it when an Essendon or Richmond supporter calls your club a minnow club? You're basically doing the same thing.
I'm actually not. I don't think people genuinely care about GWS enough to warrant the same discussions about those particular creations. The proof is in, well, the questioning really, people don't talk about them, generally speaking the reasoning behind not talking about something is exactly that, a lack of care, but sure, keep reaching!

FWIW, I don't care what other people say about my club.
 

Pessimistic

TheBrownDog
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Whatley, Riewoldt and Murphy think an out of contract Tim Kelly should be forced to go to Freo if it gets Geelong higher picks - with Nick Riewoldt being the stronger advocate of it out of the 3.

Do you think Nick Riewoldt would think the same would apply with St Kilda's approach to Brad Hill (or any other Victorian 'go home' scenario)?
Surely according to this logic Freo should be free to shop a contracted Brad around to the highest bidder in Victoria (I don't agree)?

I'm interested to hear Where and When do you think players should be able to nominate a club or not?

Tim Kelly is the only player I think I have heard the national media make these sort of suggestions on to this extent where the player shouldn't be able to nominate.
I am guessing this is because some feel the burden of proof is stronger on him to prove the genuineness of his need (special needs children) - although actual genuine need being the reason a player can't nominate as opposed to non-need giving a player greater rights is a pretty shaky proposition...

What scenarios have merit and which don't - topic doesn't necessarily have to be about Tim Kelly, can apply to Shiel, Hill or whatever scenario.
We thought Dermie liked the sound of his own voice. Roo takes it up to a whole new level. Hell talk several minutes at a time, all drawing on his illustrious st kilda experience
 

JackFlash

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Kelly is not a Free agent. A deal must be struck for him to get to West Coast, the anti Freo stance has me baffled and clouds the whole "go home factor". Fremantle can make the deal immediately, they have a top 10 pick and no matter what that nob end Ralph says, Geelong are not accepting pick 14 and 23. (Would they like to throw Jack Petruccelle in for good measure?) The Eagles have to find a top 10 pick. Tim Kelly is now an All Australian who might even be more decorated before this season ends. Geelong have every right to play hard ball and receive the very best deal for a great player who will play for the Eagles for the next 5 or 6 years at his peak.
 

Freomaniac

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Kelly is not a Free agent. A deal must be struck for him to get to West Coast, the anti Freo stance has me baffled and clouds the whole "go home factor". Fremantle can make the deal immediately, they have a top 10 pick and no matter what that nob end Ralph says, Geelong are not accepting pick 14 and 23. (Would they like to throw Jack Petruccelle in for good measure?) The Eagles have to find a top 10 pick. Tim Kelly is now an All Australian who might even be more decorated before this season ends. Geelong have every right to play hard ball and receive the very best deal for a great player who will play for the Eagles for the next 5 or 6 years at his peak.
well your a bit defensive are you?

You haven't been the same since Ross Lyon was sacked and Robert Mugabe passed away haven't you? Lol
 

Shoei

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AFL fans have this bizarre ownership mentality when it comes to players.

We have this stupid system where a player can complete their contract but still be completely hamstrung when it comes to career choices; Either their club is willing to trade them or there's the lottery of going back in to the draft where they can end up anywhere.

Any player that's finished their contract should be a "free agent" and be allowed to move to any club they want. Can't wait for the day it happens.
 

Obeanie1

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Players have too much power. The "I want to go to my home state but only to one specific team" is a load of s**t. Can't wait for the day clubs can trade players wherever they want.
You will be waiting a very long time.

Slavery was abolished a long time ago.
 

Obeanie1

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AFL fans have this bizarre ownership mentality when it comes to players.

We have this stupid system where a player can complete their contract but still be completely hamstrung when it comes to career choices; Either their club is willing to trade them or there's the lottery of going back in to the draft where they can end up anywhere.

Any player that's finished their contract should be a "free agent" and be allowed to move to any club they want. Can't wait for the day it happens.
So pretty much the NRL model but clubs initially have the draft.

AFL wouldnt like that as if waters down their equalisation powers.
 

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Obeanie1

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It seems that when Free Agency came in that it also made it easier for contracted players to choose another specific club and end up there if they wanted to so bad. Like it was a culture shift across the board to make player movement easy regardless of the situation.

The AFL simply just need to bring a pick a state and not a club rule. Seems the easiest way and Free Agency is the reward later on for easier movement. Perhaps inadvertently it’ll force players to stick to contracts more as there won’t be that easy of an out available.

As for Kelly (and any player wanting to go home and doesn’t qualify for FA) it should be to the highest bidder that Geelong sees fit.
Why do you think Geelong own the rights to sell Kelly to the highest bidder? He isnt a slave.

He was a mature age draftee that developed himself, cost the Cats a 2nd round pick and no development time nor money. He has repaid that investment by playing elite football for two years on rookie wages $400k per year under his real value.

Geelong are a mile in front.

If he did go to the Eagles for a 1st plus a 2nd round pick Geeling are again miles in front.

Freo may offer a pick 10 places earlier in the draft but hasnt Kelly actually earned the right to choose his employer?

Why should a club come out miles in front but the player forced to work somewhere he doesnt want to be?

In Kelly's case it seems like a outcome totally bias towards the club and the player has no choice whatsoever and should just suck it up.

But that didnt happen at all with Dangerfield selecting Geelong and no other Melbourne team.

Two sets of rules!
 

Scotland

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The whole thing is crying out for a reactive rule change from the AFL.

Players nominating clubs isn't an issue worth doing anything about 50 weeks of the year, so it's pointless to do pretend it's suddenly important come October trade period.

Clubs hate it and fans likewise but the players call the shots. Is AFLPA president Patrick Dangerfield going to come out in support of Geelong FC or Kelly?
 

telsor

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2 club state. 20 year old emerging champion is 'homesick'.

Club A offers 4 years at $1M/year and pick 50
Club B offers 10 years at 250K/year and pick 5

Can anyone else see how there might be issues with the player's current club forcing him to take the second deal?


(yes, obviously an extreme example, and yes, it applies to Vic clubs too, but I couldn't be arsed added 8 other options when 2 demonstrates the point quite adequately)
 

Luv_our_club

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1. If the club is assisting a player to go home for compassionate grounds it is far too rich for the player to strictly nominate what club they move to. The player can declare a preference, not much more.

2. Clubs that entice players to come to them but fail to pay the price at the trade table and leave that player hanging should get a reputation. Player managers should warn players that club "X" is known to hang potential recruits out to dry.
 

Obeanie1

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1. If the club is assisting a player to go home for compassionate grounds it is far too rich for the player to strictly nominate what club they move to. The player can declare a preference, not much more.

2. Clubs that entice players to come to them but fail to pay the price at the trade table and leave that player hanging should get a reputation. Player managers should warn players that club "X" is known to hang potential recruits out to dry.
Clubs dont own players. They rent them.

Good players through genetics and hard work make themselves more valuable than other players. The clubs play a small part in development. Why do people think just because a club chooses that player in a draft that club then automatically 'owns' the rights to dictate where the player works for their career.

Im sorry but its downright dumb to think that way.

What if a club does the wrong thing by a player. He's a gun but they stuff up medically, or he doesnt get on with the coach, or they dont value him at true market value?

He decides to go and wants to go to a club with a reputation as having great medical programs like the Hawks. Or to a big club like Collingwood. Or to the club wiling to pay more for his services.

You are suggesting he doesnt get a choice because the club he didnt choose when drafted, who doesnt rate his value as high as another or stuffed him around medically should choose where he ends up.........to get a draft pick or two slightly better.

Really? Just think about that a bit more.
 

Johnny Karate

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The whole thing is crying out for a reactive rule change from the AFL.

Players nominating clubs isn't an issue worth doing anything about 50 weeks of the year, so it's pointless to do pretend it's suddenly important come October trade period.

Clubs hate it and fans likewise but the players call the shots. Is AFLPA president Patrick Dangerfield going to come out in support of Geelong FC or Kelly?
I can see it now. Kelly wants to get to West Coast, Geelong don’t like the picks offered. The AFL then offers Geelong a top 5 pick as a concession.

As an aside, maybe players whether returning to Victoria or another state could stop lying? Don’t play a bulls**t ‘homesick’ card but then say ‘I only want to play for that club.’ Why not just say ‘I want to leave Geelong and play for the Eagles at the completion of my contract.’ Why does there have to be some bulls**t, soap opera, sob story attached?

It makes the general population think of AFL players as a bunch of soft, ungrateful sooks that don’t appreciate the fortunate position they are in.
 

Obeanie1

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I can see it now. Kelly wants to get to West Coast, Geelong don’t like the picks offered. The AFL then offers Geelong a top 5 pick as a concession.

As an aside, maybe players whether returning to Victoria or another state could stop lying? Don’t play a bulls**t ‘homesick’ card but then say ‘I only want to play for that club.’ Why not just say ‘I want to leave Geelong and play for the Eagles at the completion of my contract.’ Why does there have to be some bulls**t, soap opera, sob story attached?

It makes the general population think of AFL players as a bunch of soft, ungrateful sooks that don’t appreciate the fortunate position they are in.
Kelly has two kids under 3 with autism.

He developed himself and was recruited as a mature age player.

He has played exceptional football for two seasons getting paid $400k per year less than what he is actually worth.

He will land the Cats more than double what they used on him in the draft.

Geelong are acting like a bunch of soft, ungrateful sooks that dont appreciate the fortunate position they are in.

Everythin Tim Kelly related is massively in their favour. MASSIVELY!!

Yet they sook when the guy has the gaul to nominate a club who is stable and successful over a unsuccessful club currently in upheaval.

Really?
 

Shoei

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I can see it now. Kelly wants to get to West Coast, Geelong don’t like the picks offered. The AFL then offers Geelong a top 5 pick as a concession.

As an aside, maybe players whether returning to Victoria or another state could stop lying? Don’t play a bulls**t ‘homesick’ card but then say ‘I only want to play for that club.’ Why not just say ‘I want to leave Geelong and play for the Eagles at the completion of my contract.’ Why does there have to be some bulls**t, soap opera, sob story attached?

It makes the general population think of AFL players as a bunch of soft, ungrateful sooks that don’t appreciate the fortunate position they are in.
Because AFL fans have been conditioned to believe that Players owe their entire careers to the club that drafted them and are pieces of s**t mercenaries if they ever want to leave. If player movements became more frequent and accepted then you'll get more honesty from the players.
 

Atomboy

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Because AFL fans have been conditioned to believe that Players owe their entire careers to the club that drafted them and are pieces of s**t mercenaries if they ever want to leave. If player movements became more frequent and accepted then you'll get more honesty from the players.
Well in Kelly’s case it is probably true - weren’t many other clubs lining up to get him on board.

In his case he should be trying to repay that by getting them the best deal possible.

Something that Juddy tried to do when he left West Coast from memory.
 

Luv_our_club

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Clubs dont own players. They rent them.

Good players through genetics and hard work make themselves more valuable than other players. The clubs play a small part in development. Why do people think just because a club chooses that player in a draft that club then automatically 'owns' the rights to dictate where the player works for their career.

Im sorry but its downright dumb to think that way.

What if a club does the wrong thing by a player. He's a gun but they stuff up medically, or he doesnt get on with the coach, or they dont value him at true market value?

He decides to go and wants to go to a club with a reputation as having great medical programs like the Hawks. Or to a big club like Collingwood. Or to the club wiling to pay more for his services.

You are suggesting he doesnt get a choice because the club he didnt choose when drafted, who doesnt rate his value as high as another or stuffed him around medically should choose where he ends up.........to get a draft pick or two slightly better.

Really? Just think about that a bit more.
lol.. i don't think you read my post... and you sort of imagined what i said.
 

Tinyparts

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Well in Kelly’s case it is probably true - weren’t many other clubs lining up to get him on board.

In his case he should be trying to repay that by getting them the best deal possible.

Something that Juddy tried to do when he left West Coast from memory.
No THE JUDD did not do that
He toured Bomberland, looked around and said "Is this it?" prompting them to upgrade their facilities
Same for tigers
He chose the blues as they had better facilities at the time(and the nice little cash in pocket)
My view on Kelly is that his contract is up he should go where he likes. If its Freo then so be it
 

Vindicater

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I have always thought a player should not be allowed to nominate a team but instead a state.

The home sick reason is bulls**t and always has been.

If they were actually homesick they would ask for a trade to any of the 8 Melbourne teams and would not care who.
 

Elmer_Judd

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Oh boo boo.

It will never fly with the AFLPA at any rate.

It's up to any club, in any state to get their house in order to be attractive to potential free agents or out of contract stars. Why would any returning star to WA be forced to go to the current rabble that is Freo if they clearly want to join a much more professional and well run club in West Coast ?
 

Shoei

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Well in Kelly’s case it is probably true - weren’t many other clubs lining up to get him on board.

In his case he should be trying to repay that by getting them the best deal possible.

Something that Juddy tried to do when he left West Coast from memory.
Players don't owe the clubs s**t.

You think Kelly wouldn't have been dropped like a hot spud after his rookie contract if he wasn't any good, like what happens to some players at the end of every season?

If a player plays out their contract they don't owe anything. Service rendered is payment.

Absolutely mind-boggling the sense of entitlement fans have.
 

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