John Howard saved us all from the Y2K Bug.
PM accused of panic in global crisis
- Thread starter medusala
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Well that parts right
What have the actually acheieved accept for Gillards school tests?
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- #29
You seem to live in this fantasy world where governments are perfect, and any retrospective analysis will prove that.
You need to show a better government response, to have a legitimate critique of what they did. Hindsight is great, but dont let it blind you to the quick responses that had to be made at the time.
Otherwise, you are just a sniper like Dry Rot.
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- #30
If my memory serves me correctly, the libs position was for no stimulus, keep the budget in surplus, and tax cuts.
Tax cuts were plainly stupid, because they take so long to get into the pockets of people to use them.
TheGreatBarryB
Hall of Famer
??? Spain was already in recession and high unemployment before any stimulus package. So was Greece with the extra burden of corruption /cover ups etc.
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- #32
John Howard didnt save us from Y2K, but he did save us from the Dot Com crash...
.... by having next to no IT industry in Australia.
McKibbin is an economist of international standing. He is not a climate change sceptic and has developed his own framework to reduce emissions because Kyoto won't be tacken up in developed countries like China and India, he said that in years before Kevvie went to Nopenhagen. He does believe in a market based system.
Not at all; no Government is perfect, that's pretty obvious.
But I don't need to show 'a better government response' - there is evidence to suggest that the stimulus was larger than it need to be, and clear evidence that it was spent in wasteful ways. I don't need to know how to bake a better cake to know that one tastes like crap.
I've said the entire time that a stimulus was valid, but that it was probably too big, and was definitely mis-directed.
Couple of simple examples - SA Govt was planning to build a new prison in Murray Bridge, all of the groundwork was done, project was ready to have the sod turned; and it was canned because the GFC hit. That is exactly the type of project that should've been made a priority - it provides real jobs, it's costed (relatively) correctly, it'll provide long term benefit for the State and free up residential land where the existing prison is.
I believe the cost was approx $500 million.
There is also a massive debate in Adelaide at the moment about the need for a new Hospital (budgeted at $1.7B) OR a new Sports Stadium (predicted budget of $800M-$1B).
In my opinion, all of those projects should've gone ahead under the stimulus package. They create jobs, they purchase products/materials, they stimulate other investment, and they provide decades of benefit for the State.
For $3B South Australia could've had a brand new prison, brand new hospital and a brand new sports stadium - at least 2 of which we are in desperate need of, and would've set this State up for the next 50 years.
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- #35
You do. Because all governments around the world, had to make a call as what to do at that very moment. Not in hindsight.
I dont know the details of SA, but in general building hospitals and stadiums takes years of planning and approvals. It is not a short-term stimulus into the economy.
Its foolish to accuse McKibbin of partisanship. However, his ideological disposition is well established, having co-authored many papers with Jeffrey Sachs as an illustrative example. Whilst his criticisms are valid, you have to remember he is an advocate for economic shock therapy and extreme austerity, something that is democratically unpalatable in Australia.
The same Prof Sachs who wants to massively increase aid to africa to break
3rd world povety and developed the millenium goals? Trying to Paint Mckibbin as a neo con is inaccurate.
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- #38
Economic Shock therapy is a shocking policy though.
Maybe some of it but privitising public enterprises has been done by Keating and Howard it is not some extreme right position. It has worked in some instances and probably should be done in Greece
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- #40
Europe after following Rudd's belove neo Keynesian policies are having to do exactly that. The UK govt just cut the average departments spending (ex health and os aid) by 25%. Yes that's right 25%
That is where Rudd's beloved social democracy ends up.
You seem unable to grasp that if you grow the population by 2% a year then the economy has to grow that much just to maintian living standards.
I know its beyond the editorial team at Fairfax to grasp this very basic point but it really is not that difficult.
"The budget should be balanced, the Treasury should be refilled,
public debt should be reduced, the arrogance of officialdom should be
tempered and controlled, and the assistance to foreign lands should be
curtailed lest Rome become bankrupt. People must again learn to work,
instead of living on public assistance."
Cicero, 55 BC
Neo-conservative? What the hell are you talking about? Neo-conservatives certainly have a propensity for government action in these kinds of circumstances. That is certainly not what I am on about and quite frankly I am confused by your comment.
McKibbin is an economic neo-liberal and his policy approach to these circumstances would in most cases favour austerity. Read his work on post-Cold War South America or response to the 1997 Asian financial crisis. Let's not confuse the political and economic. His climate views and advocacy for poverty alleviation in the Third World aren't inconsistent with the understanding that austerity and minimal government intervention in times of financial crisis. Just because the mainstream political commentariat views one of these dispositions with the left and the other with the right, doesn't make both views perfectly defensible.
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- #42
Thats not shock therapy. Shock is all about doing it in very fast time. Pulling the rug from under your feet.
THats the stupid part of it. It sounds like an experiment, not a philosophy, and some poor bastards (countries) actually tried it. !
This was the most interesting part of what he had to say:
We all knew at the time how freaked out they got and how they turned it into a great big drama. Oz was just lucky there was plenty of money in the kitty for them to spend otherwise the ramifications would have been far worse.
Apart from all the wasted billions the worst knock on effect has been how they've used Treasury politically instead of taking responsibility for their own policy decisions.
But that's wot you get when you vote nuff nuffs in to manage the economy.
We all knew at the time how freaked out they got and how they turned it into a great big drama. Oz was just lucky there was plenty of money in the kitty for them to spend otherwise the ramifications would have been far worse.
Apart from all the wasted billions the worst knock on effect has been how they've used Treasury politically instead of taking responsibility for their own policy decisions.
But that's wot you get when you vote nuff nuffs in to manage the economy.
No, I don't, because I'm not disputing that stimulus programs can be of value. I'm disputing ours was largely wasted and misdirected.
And a $500M jail where all of the planning and approval was completed?
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- #45
Shock therapy was tried in the depression of the early 1920s. Depression over in 18 months.
Odd is it not that the stimulus cheerleaders seemed to have amnesia re that? Ditto Eastern Europe after the fall of the Soviet Union. Ditto Howe's budgets in the UK in the early 80's. Ditto Sweden slashing spending in the 90s after a banking crisis.
evo
Let's hit the f*ken road!
Meds, you've outdone yourself.
Agree on your first example but the second two could have taken years to get up. ie no good for stumulus.
Primary schools were probaly chosen because the planning requirements are small and the spend was long overdue.
Insulation is the best environmental infrastructure by far - at least 10 times more cost effective than the next measure. simple too. again no p[lanning approval needed_ except they underestimated the stuff lurking in peoples loft space.
I wonder how we'd be judging the government if the package was now in hindsight i might add - judged to be too small - we'd be in recession and probaly blaming howard. Ironic really.
And If the RBA guy is so worried about the country why are they jacking up interest rates as fast as opinion will allow ? Thats where the vandalism lies.
And if big business is going to jack off the government whenever they want a lesser portion of the tax burden, the small business and wage slaves will tak up the slack
How's things tonight Barry?
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