Ponting given the old Freo (heave ho).

[Happy Mastenator]

Marsh couldn't have made runs against an under 12s side with the form he was in. Haddin the same. Cowan was ok, took a bit of time to adjust to the step up.

I never said I subscribed to those opinions btw, I think it undervalues his performances. My main point was that caution should be used when assessing Ponting. He had an excellent series, yes, but at his age that form can just as quickly disappear. We shouldn't just assume that the old Ponting is back and will carry us right through to the Ashes in 2013.

Agreed, one good series does not negate the warning signs we have had for the last few years. And once the Ashes series start we have them back to back, very very risky to bring in new blood during those tests if Anderson, Broad, Swann etc., have their tails up and firing.

 

[potatomasher]

There is a train of thought (mostly from Indian supporters it must be said) that Ponting's "resurgence" can't be taken too seriously, given the sheer ineptitude of India. Obviously you can only score runs against what is put in front of you, but I'm sure the selectors would be wary of Punter coming crashing back down against England or South Africa at a highly inopportune time such as in the middle of an Ashes series.

The worst case scenario would be a string of failures in the Ashes, forcing us to play a young/inexperienced batsman at the top of the order. Form can be very fickle at the best of times, let alone when you're 38. Don't get me wrong, the man is an all time great and one of my favourite cricketers, and having a firing Ponting in your top order is a huge weapon, but foresight is needed. Hopefully his current test form sticks considering the cupboard is pretty bare for batsmen at the moment!

As bad as you say India were, Clarke and Ponting were the only ones who really dominated them. Zaheer bowled alright, Sharma was consistent as well, Yadav had a bit of pace about him, and Ashwin was their best bowler. They weren't that bad. They sparked batting collapses regularly, Ponting and Clarke saved the team a lot more than the enormous winning margins suggest.

 

[Happy Mastenator]

As bad as you say India were, Clarke and Ponting were the only ones who really dominated them. Zaheer bowled alright, Sharma was consistent as well, Yadav had a bit of pace about him, and Ashwin was their best bowler. They weren't that bad. They sparked batting collapses regularly, Ponting and Clarke saved the team a lot more than the enormous winning margins suggest.

Ok. But how much wieght should be put on this one series compared to the last two years when he's struggled?

Like Hayden, Waugh and others, once the decline sets in they can still pull out good patches of form, they just become shorter in length and further apart in time...

 

[Thommo 42]

the theory that his results should be assessed based on India being inept is inept itself.

He came to the wicket at 2 for diddly squat with regularity and rescued the innings.

 

[potatomasher]

Ok. But how much wieght should be put on this one series compared to the last two years when he's struggled?

Like Hayden, Waugh and others, once the decline sets in they can still pull out good patches of form, they just become shorter in length and further apart in time...

Firstly, Ponting is better than Hayden and Waugh. He's in the Tendulkar class. Go back a few years and Tendulkar looked like he was done too. Would've been a huge mistake if he was dropped.

Secondly, if he struggles again leading up to the Ashes then you reconsider. But the suggestion earlier that he shouldn't make it to the West Indies is ridiculous. Warner, Cowan, Marsh and Haddin are all offering less than him right now, and the only realistic replacements are Watson and Wade. I can't see them making five changes to the team, so Ponting should stay.

 

[Happy Mastenator]

Firstly, Ponting is better than Hayden and Waugh. He's in the Tendulkar class. Go back a few years and Tendulkar looked like he was done too. Would've been a huge mistake if he was dropped.

Secondly, if he struggles again leading up to the Ashes then you reconsider. But the suggestion earlier that he shouldn't make it to the West Indies is ridiculous. Warner, Cowan, Marsh and Haddin are all offering less than him right now, and the only realistic replacements are Watson and Wade. I can't see them making five changes to the team, so Ponting should stay.

Tendaulkar had his bad patch before he was 35 before coming good again, and it wasn't two years of terrible like Ricky. Ricky is now 37.

I don't disagree that Ricky is probably the best batsman for the Windies, but where does that leave us with the Ashes? Hoping he can hold up against the best attack in the world as a 38, nearly 39 year old by the time the back to back series is done.

Shouldn't we take the opportunity to prepare for that?

 

[frankrizzo]

Hope ponting retires next summer, he's highly unlikely at nearly 40 to get the job done in English conditions.

Ponting failed to get the job done in 05 and 09 in england and those series occurred during his peak, it was a bit of a worry that if he made runs against the laughable indian bowling he and his supporters would think the ashes were realistic.

If we take the old boys to england we are going to get humiliated and even worse we are then pretty much stuck with the same old guys or the nightmare scenario a bunch of rookies in at the deep end for the return leg in Australia.

As great as ponting was he does not automatically deserve another ashes tour to set things right, he lost 3 ashes series as skipper nobody with that sort of record is in a position to claim they deserve another go at redemption.

 

[Tassieboy]

People are dismissing India's attack too easily here. Yes they were only average, nothing special, but the upcoming series in the Windies should be on flatter wickets against a weaker bowling attack. We are forgetting that apart from Clarke and Hussey to an extent, no one managed to master their attack consistent. In fact, Ponting was more consistent than Clarke.

 

[aussierulesrules]

Ponting is clearly deserving of playing tests if he continues his recent test form, but as soon as that form starts to wane again (if he doesn't retire in the meantime), they pretty much need to do what they've done here, again. A few bad innings in a row and they'll probably need to pull the plug pretty quick-smart and put the next best option in there.

For those that are worried that we won't have anyone ready to just come in and do well immediately, if he goes during, or close to the Ashes, we will hopefully have a couple of decent options by then.

For one, hopefully Shaun Marsh will have his shit together again by then. He showed last year that he was able to come straight in to test cricket and excel immediately (at no.3) and next time around he will have the benefit of his previous experience to help him, as well.

I know he is not well liked around here by many/most, but those who saw him batting in Sri Lanka and Sth Africa know full well how good he is, when he's in form and confident. Anyone that could do as well as he did and feel so confident, against arguably the best bowling attack in the world, on the greentop that saw us at 9 for 21, in the 2nd innings (in Capetown), is going to be able to handle just about anything.

There was an interesting article on him in the paper the other day, where he said he just approached the Indian test series all wrong and went right away from what had worked so well for him in the past 3 years (when he averaged 59 for his last two Sheffield Shield summers and then did so well at the start of his test career). He said he just tried too hard, as he was desperate to impress in his first test series at home and that he simply tried to score too quickly, which is the exact opposite of what he had been doing in his initial tests (when he was averaging 70) and in those last two Shield series (where his strike rate was in the 40's). He had very slow strike rates in all those periods where he was doing really well, but in the Indian series he came out and looked like he was still in T20 mode, (from the 99 he scored in the T20 game on the eve of the tests) and it clearly doesn't work for him. He was playing at all sorts of balls outside off, that he was leaving alone against Sri lanka and Sth Africa and it brought him unstuck.
He then of course lost all confidence, but at least he's already identified where he went wrong, so I imagine he will be more determined than ever to get back into test cricket and show what he's got, having learned from that "rookie mistake". If he stays relatively injury free (which I realise is a big "if") I fully expect he will be back at some stage and do really well. Maybe it will be in England.

Forrest also looks like he'll be ideally suited to test cricket and maybe he could get himself a County cricket contract this winter, to give himself some experience of the conditions.

 

[frankrizzo]

People are dismissing India's attack too easily here. Yes they were only average, nothing special

it's just the realistic understanding that a near 40 year old ponting is unlikely to succeed in England facing those English quick's.

Before this summer even ponting's most ardent supporters felt the 2013 ashes was a pipe dream, many stated they hoped he would find some form and then pull the plug at the end of the summer.

What's the plan if he does make the ashes and he flops with the bat and we lose?

Do we then have to give him the next ashes to redeem himself?

The feeling from many is ponting deserves to go out in a blaze of glory but those endings are rare even for greats, we start as huge underdogs for the ashes with or without ponting the likelihood is this is going to end bad for ponting if he tries to go on that series too long.

 

[Tassieboy]

I honestly don't think there's a more suitable replacement, at this stage.

 

[Kyptastic]

He probably gets the Windies tour and the South Africa tests next summer to prove that he'll still be able to perform at the level. If he can't, then the Sri Lankan tests will be a good time to blood someone for the Ashes.

 

[frankrizzo]

I honestly don't think there's a more suitable replacement, at this stage.

Honestly if a few young guys start making runs in the next 12 months people will stay say ponting is a legend he deserves to pick his own ending.

It won't change the outcome people want it will just change the reason they are using to justify it.

 

[Gak Attack]

People are dismissing India's attack too easily here. Yes they were only average, nothing special, but the upcoming series in the Windies should be on flatter wickets against a weaker bowling attack. We are forgetting that apart from Clarke and Hussey to an extent, no one managed to master their attack consistent. In fact, Ponting was more consistent than Clarke.

Exactly. Even if they were poor, what does that say about the players likely to replace Ponting? I mean Warner was poor besides one good knock, Marsh was horrendous, Cowan was nothing special against this supposed ordinary attack. It's all well and good to bring the youth through but in Test cricket I want the best team, no one is forcing the selectors hand to get into the team and I have never agreed with throwing out baggy greens on potential only. Given a fully fit side to choose from you can only seriously put Clarke and Watson safely ahead of him in the batting stakes... with Hussey at the same level. Quiney and Davis are having solid years but as openers you would assume they would replace the under performing Warner or Cowan.

 

[Tassieboy]

Honestly if a few young guys start making runs in the next 12 months people will stay say ponting is a legend he deserves to pick his own ending.

It won't change the outcome people want it will just change the reason they are using to justify it.

Indeed, but this is not my argument.

 

[WhisperingsOfWar]

ricky is still one of the best players in the world and one of our best. not sure why people would want him to retire in tests.

 

[Portmanteau]

This is a win for the emotion stirred up by an unnecessary media frenzy.

Ponting did enough in the test series to give him enough credit for a while yet.

Probably shouldn't have been dropped from ODIs, but it's not the worst thing in the world. Stoked he'll still be playing tests.

 

[King Elvis]

Strong homo for Ricky.

 

[sherb]

I want to see Ponting turn out for Mowbray.

 

[irish]

a pissed off punter look out south australia !! good for tassie

who the hell is banging down the door for his test place ??? yes there is no one !!!
we may have great bowling depth but boys get real the batting cabinet is empty !!!

long live punter !!!!!!!!!!!!!! shame on those with short memories

 

[sherb]

As a native Tasmanian, I give Ponting a lot of credit for staying so loyal to Tassie cricket.

He has lived in NSW for many years I believe and could have easily shifted his allegiances to that state on the occasions he has played state cricket.

But, no, he still wants to play for Tassie. And it sounds like he will be next season as well. Good stuff.

 

[King Elvis]

ricky is still one of the best players in the world and one of our best. not sure why people would want him to retire in tests.

Clarke is getting close. But Ponting is still our lynch pin and our most important player.

The Poms said it last Summer, and you could tell in their celebrations; Pontings wicket was the one they valued the most.


I actually think this should've been his last ODI Series, but the Selectors, IMO, have tried to prove their willing to make tough calls after their pathetic, gutless handling of the Haddin thing. It's bullshit that he wasn't given the rest of the Series, and an absolute disgrace, not even real, that they didn't at the very least let him play in Hobart on Friday.

w***ers.


http://www.bigfooty.com/forum/showpost.php?p=23411927&postcount=112

Agree totally.

 

[Plugger35]

The selectors probably didn't want to give Ponting the rest of the series because if he made some big scores it would have been tougher to drop him.

They know he won't be part of the ODI side for the next World Cup so had to get rid of him sooner or later.

 

[maxy87]

Punter perhaps could've been given the rest of the series and then the option to retire, but by swinging the axe, the selectors have sent a message about their intentions toward the next world cup and have perhaps tried to do so with a clarity the Haddin situation lacked.

If not for the selectors' decision, I'm not sure he would've retired anyway and this circus would continue.

For all the emotion in this thread, his series hasn't been great and points to a fairly steady decline over the last couple of years, barring a few scores. Ponting's competitive nature that has arguably driven his best years of cricket is also possibly the reason for the denial of the right to a 'Farewell' match or series. He simply won't walk away. Fairy tale endings don't often happen in sports and he has left the door open to be pushed rather than jumping.

A productive test series against India this summer will see him continue on in that format, but that also begs the question "when will it end?" - should he have a poor tour of the Windies and (if he's still there) a modest home summer, he should be dropped. No question. The test team needs to be as settled as possible for what should be a challenging Ashes tour. As much of a champion as he has been, he is not above the team. If the form slides again this winter, are we going to tolerate another 2 years of mediocrity before he comes good again, based largely on past deeds?

 

[King Elvis]

I'm clearly a Punter lover; but no, he effectively gets the Windies Tour and the Saffer Home Series, if he isn't performing, then the Saffer Home Series is his farewell.