Ponting given the old Freo (heave ho).

[Heeney2Franklin]

Yes there has. Phillip Hughes, but they killed the golden goose in 2009 when trying to protect Mitch Johnson.

Ahh Phil Hughes what could of been if they just left him alone and said keep doing what your doing..

What they did to Hughes was the same thing as telling Gilchrist to stop playing shots because you might get out.

 

[Thommo 42]

Phil Hughes is still younger even now than Clarke was when he made his debut....

 

[Belnakor]

If phil hughes is good enough he'll be back. Martyn got back from a similiar situation when they told him to stop playing through the off side.

 

[Doodlesweaver]

Phil Hughes is still younger even now than Clarke was when he made his debut....

Not quite, he's 22. but all this talk about Phil Hughes in the past as though he is never to return or something just seems weird.

 

[Thommo 42]

Not quite, he's 22.

Yes, and Clarke made his test debut at 23....

So unless my maths is failing me, Hughes is younger now than Clarke was when he debuted

 

[MC Bad Genius]

This makes me sad....

Yeah, I'm not his biggest fan either.

 

[King Elvis]

I must be the only one who thought he deserved to be told he won't be required beyond this series and we'll give you a farewell at Hobart, instead of being dumped the way he was.

Even Heals didn't deserve that sorta treatment, didn't think one of our best ever would either.

I think a lot of people feel that way mate; the CA Facebook page asked if he should've got a last game, almost all positive, and a hell of a lot of abuse directed at Cricket Australia for not giving it to him.

Also interesting to note guys like Lyon and Pattoman come out and say what a massive, massive positive factor Ponting is, and that he spends huge amounts of time with them working purely on their games.



And Punter is definitely the best ODI player, ever.

 

[Wicked Lester]

Yes there has. Phillip Hughes, but they killed the golden goose in 2009 when trying to protect Mitch Johnson.

The point I was trying to make was a little different.

I believe the likes of Ponting and Clarke were identified early on as long term prospects. Based on technique and natural ability they'd have been rated as having a strong likelihood of making it at test level. As I said, Ponting was an immediate success at first class level selectors and it made his test selection fairly easy, even in a relatively strong batting line up.

Clarke's technique was and is very sound even if his early first class results didn't really support his test selection. They clearly spotted something special in clarke and went with it. While it took a while for him to settle, the decision was a good one.

I would argue Hughes and Warner are different beasts. Their coaches and the selectors would never have looked at them at an early age and thought 'their technique sets them apart from the peers'. They may have thought, 'these blokes have a great eye, lets see how they go at shield level.' As it turned out they both made sufficient runs to push for test selection.

 

[Happy Mastenator]

And Punter is definitely the best ODI player, ever.

Kallis might have something to say about that.

Ponting v Kallis
Games 375 v 319
Tot Runs 13704 v 11481
Av 42.03 v 45.55
Strike Rate 80.3 v 72.9
Wickets 3 v 267
Catches 160 v 123

Kallis is probably the worlds most underated cricketer. When you factor in his bowling he's got very strong claims, and a fantastic catching fielder.

 

[Thommo 42]

Kallis strike rate of 72 batting at #4 is far too low to enter argument for best ODI player ever.

 

[aussierulesrules]

I think a lot of people feel that way mate; the CA Facebook page asked if he should've got a last game, almost all positive, and a hell of a lot of abuse directed at Cricket Australia for not giving it to him.

The problem with that is that this current selection panel say that "the door isn't closed on anyone" returning to, or debuting in, international cricket. Giving someone a "farewell game" would be closing the door on him and would completely contradict their policy.
Basically they're saying that anyone they stop selecting in the Australian side has the chance to win their spot back, no matter what age they are, which I think is good policy, as you could otherwise miss out on a late career resurgence, like we've seen from Ponting, Tendulkar and Dravid, for example.
They may have also given Ricky the opportunity to retire, with a farewell game in Tassie, but he may have knocked it back, with hopes of winning his spot back, for all we know. Ricky is incredibly competitive and clearly still believes in his ability, so he may believe he has some small chance of getting back in there.

 

[Happy Mastenator]

Kallis strike rate of 72 batting at #4 is far too low to enter argument for best ODI player ever.

I would argue 250+ more wickets more than makes up for that. He'll be knocking on the door of top 10 wicket takers in ODI's by the time he's done, and will be right there with Ricky in total runs.

 

[courtjester]

Kallis might have something to say about that.

Ponting v Kallis
Games 375 v 319
Tot Runs 13704 v 11481
Av 42.03 v 45.55
Strike Rate 80.3 v 72.9
Wickets 3 v 267
Catches 160 v 123

Kallis is probably the worlds most underated cricketer. When you factor in his bowling he's got very strong claims, and a fantastic catching fielder.

A team strike rate of 80 (Ponting)means the team makes 240. A team SR of 73 (Kallis) means the team makes 219. Big difference in ODIs.

Kallis is good though.

 

[maxy87]

Kallis might have something to say about that.

Ponting v Kallis v Jayasuriya
Games 375 v 319 v 445
Tot Runs 13704 v 11481 v 13430
Av 42.03 v 45.55 v 32.36
Strike Rate 80.3 v 72.9 v 91.21
Wickets 3 v 267 v 323
Catches 160 v 123 v 123

Kallis is probably the worlds most underated cricketer. When you factor in his bowling he's got very strong claims, and a fantastic catching fielder.

Another player worthy of consideration listed in bold - but lets not let stats get in the way of fanboyism

 

[Happy Mastenator]

A team strike rate of 80 (Ponting)means the team makes 240. A team SR of 73 (Kallis) means the team makes 219. Big difference in ODIs.

Kallis is good though.

What about the fact that Kallis takes a wicket almost every game, doesn't that make up for 21 runs? or are you just going to discount that completely!

Another player worthy of consideration listed in bold - but lets not let stats get in the way of fanboyism

Yep. He's up there.

I'm not saying that Ponting isn't the greatest one day player ever, but it's not cut and dried either way and strong arguements can be made for others.

 

[King Elvis]

Kallis might have something to say about that.

Ponting v Kallis
Games 375 v 319
Tot Runs 13704 v 11481
Av 42.03 v 45.55
Strike Rate 80.3 v 72.9
Wickets 3 v 267
Catches 160 v 123

Kallis is probably the worlds most underated cricketer. When you factor in his bowling he's got very strong claims, and a fantastic catching fielder.

Agree with you on Kallis, can be selfish and bat for himself in ODIs though, which I think his S/R reflects.


He should be spoken about with Ponting, Lara and Tendulkar; but I'd still say Ricky is the best ODI Player ever.

Great bat, unbelievable fielding, and almost always delivered when it mattered.

Happy to admit that a very good argument could be made for others though

 

[Outshined]

There's always a key difference that is ignored when these sorts of debates arise.

Kallis is a better overall ODI player, namely for his bowling worth (267 @ 31.76) combined with his 11,481 runs.

Ponting however, is one of the best purely from a batting standpoint, for reasons like those discussed above (SR, weight of runs etc).

As such, the discussions of "who is greater" between Kallis, Ponting, Tendulkar etc are always moot. They are champions each in their own right. Although Kallis is typically highly undervalued.

 

[Belnakor]

Agree with you on Kallis, can be selfish and bat for himself in ODIs though, which I think his S/R reflects.


He should be spoken about with Ponting, Lara and Tendulkar; but I'd still say Ricky is the best ODI Player ever.

Great bat, unbelievable fielding, and almost always delivered when it mattered.

Happy to admit that a very good argument could be made for others though

key thing about Punter was his "big game" knocks. Very very rarely let us down in the big ODI games.

 

[evdo1706]

IVA Richards?

Wasn't around to see him live, but the stats are damn good, 47 average with 90+ strike rate is just insane.

 

[maxy87]

Yep. He's up there.

I'm not saying that Ponting isn't the greatest one day player ever, but it's not cut and dried either way and strong arguements can be made for others.

Agreed. Wasim Akram also warrants consideration purely as a bowler. There are many greats, including punter.

 

[evdo1706]

Included Tendulkar and Richards as well.

Names Ponting v Kallis v Jayasuriya v Tendulkar v Richards
Games 375 v 319 v 445 v 458 v 187
Tot Runs 13704 v 11481 v 13430 v 18201 v 6721
Av 42.03 v 45.55 v 32.36 v 44.83 v 47.00
Strike Rate 80.3 v 72.9 v 91.21 v 86.22 v 90.20
Wickets 3 v 267 v 323 v 154 v 118
Catches 160 v 123 v 123 v 139 v 100

You can definitely argue that Richards is the greatest ever, just that he didn't get to play enough matches.

 

[Gak Attack]

Included Tendulkar and Richards as well.

Names Ponting v Kallis v Jayasuriya v Tendulkar v Richards
Games 375 v 319 v 445 v 458 v 187
Tot Runs 13704 v 11481 v 13430 v 18201 v 6721
Av 42.03 v 45.55 v 32.36 v 44.83 v 47.00
Strike Rate 80.3 v 72.9 v 91.21 v 86.22 v 90.20
Wickets 3 v 267 v 323 v 154 v 118
Catches 160 v 123 v 123 v 139 v 100

You can definitely argue that Richards is the greatest ever, just that he didn't get to play enough matches.

But if you go into less matches you have to entertain Mike Hussey and Hashim Amla as they have all the above covered in average batting numbers. Obviously you can only play the games available to you however. However one look at Richards WC record and he makes a very strong case.

Also on the Kallis v Ponting debate. Kallis is perhaps a victim of the mental weakness that has existed with South Africa. People remember Ponting because Australia has won those games perhaps they shouldn't of and won the trophies with Ponting(most WC 100's) lots of the time playing a part. Kallis actually has good WC numbers but the fact his side always seemed to come nowhere near expectations will be a factor when looked back upon, even if you argue it wasn't his fault.

 

[skipper kelly]

Dean Jones is right up there for me.

And Mark Waugh.

And Gilchrist.

 

[Kyptastic]

Richards strike rate is amazing considering he played at a time when 220-230 was a very good score (an average SR of 75), as well as batting at the top of the order where they were pretty much only scoring at 3-4 an over.

 

[Captain Jack]

Going way back to the comparison of Ponting's renaissance with that of Tendulkar, I would say that a comparison to Dravid is much more accurate, and a cautionary tale too. Rahul had his struggles a few years back aged 37 or so, but pushed through and eventually dominated England last winter despite the Indians being thrashed. Amazing effort, no doubt, but his subsequent tour of Australia showed him up as too old, well past it, and a drag on the team in the crucial position of #3. His technical problems (back foot moving away, continually bowled) were huge and made him a shadow of his former self.
Without wanting to take away from the great man's legacy, surely India would have been better served with Kohli at #3 and Sharma or someone at #6. Of course no-one would have wanted to pull the plug on Rahul after his amazing performances in England (and those that followed at home against WI), but it just goes to show that you can only mask the march of time for a while before it returns with a vengance.
I worry that Ponting might suffer the same fate - probably not against the Windies but South Africa would be a concern. He has conquered his issues with falling across the line for now, but in time they will inevitably return, likely against a better bowling attack than what India produced.
I hope for his sake, and the team's, that he hangs up the boots before it's too late.