Poor state of Test Cricket batting

[TheGreatBarryB]

The best and most important form of cricket is currently at a real low in regards to standard.

Followed the game since the 70s and can’t remember a worst period of quality test batting. After Kohli, Williamson and Smith, there’s a dearth of quality batsmen.

Where’s the great openers with the patience and sound technique to see off the new ball? No team has the solid middle order most teams used to have.

Is it because there’s too much cricket and players just don’t have the time to work on technique? I think that’s a big part of it. Selectors even using short form of the game to pick players.

It’s also the state of pitches. Spinners should not be bowling on day 1 of a test match. India have improved their pitches somewhat but Sri Lanka, Bangladesh, Dubai not acceptable.

England and us now serve up rubbish as well. Yeah we lost to India this season but possible different result if we won toss in Melb and Sydney.

Do the authorities even care with their obsession with 20/20 and money?

 

[PhatBoy]

The best and most important form of cricket is currently at a real low in regards to standard.

Followed the game since the 70s and can’t remember a worst period of quality test batting. After Kohli, Williamson and Smith, there’s a dearth of quality batsmen.

Where’s the great openers with the patience and sound technique to see off the new ball? No team has the solid middle order most teams used to have.

Is it because there’s too much cricket and players just don’t have the time to work on technique? I think that’s a big part of it. Selectors even using short form of the game to pick players.

It’s also the state of pitches. Spinners should not be bowling on day 1 of a test match. India have improved their pitches somewhat but Sri Lanka, Bangladesh, Dubai not acceptable.

England and us now serve up rubbish as well. Yeah we lost to India this season but possible different result if we won toss in Melb and Sydney.

Do the authorities even care with their obsession with 20/20 and money?

Probably does a few players a disservice.

Markram has 4 hundreds, a 90, and 3 other 50+ scores in 14 tests, and his entire career virtually aside from a small foray against Bangladesh and a trip to Sri Lanka has been played against australia, India, and Pakistan who all boast good pace attacks.

Kraig Brathwaite doesn’t have the record to match others, simply because he has limitations to his shots, but he is as good as anyone around at blunting the new ball.

Tom Latham is averaging 42 opening primarily in New Zealand which always helps the new ball.

Karunaratne has a very ordinary start to his career but has almost worked his average up to 40 now.


As for telling other countries what their natural conditions should look like, I’m lost for words.

Spinners shouldn’t be bowling on day one?

If you can go around all the Sri Lankan grounds, change the soil composition and the grass species, not to mention the climate, and tell them to produce surfaces that fly completely in the face of what has been naturally produced their for half a century, good luck to you.

Why do cricket fans think they have a right to tell one entire section of the cricket landscape that their skill set is less meaningful than another?

It’s the same as this stupid argument about how Indian pitches are somehow substandard because they produce low scores when the ball turns from day one, but England can produce pitches that have produced 13 (it was 13 or 11, I can’t remember which but I posted it in another thread a few days ago) scores of less than 100 in the last 10 years. India has produced 4.

‘Oh that’s okay because in England the wickets were claimed with pace.’

 

[Wedge McManus]

You can probably add pujara to your list of class test batsmen op. I have heard rumours that Shaw could be another tendulkar too.....

 

[corbies]

What about the sensational state of Test Cricket bowling now?

 

[TheGreatBarryB]

Probably does a few players a disservice.

Markram has 4 hundreds, a 90, and 3 other 50+ scores in 14 tests, and his entire career virtually aside from a small foray against Bangladesh and a trip to Sri Lanka has been played against australia, India, and Pakistan who all boast good pace attacks.

Kraig Brathwaite doesn’t have the record to match others, simply because he has limitations to his shots, but he is as good as anyone around at blunting the new ball.

Tom Latham is averaging 42 opening primarily in New Zealand which always helps the new ball.

Karunaratne has a very ordinary start to his career but has almost worked his average up to 40 now.


As for telling other countries what their natural conditions should look like, I’m lost for words.

Spinners shouldn’t be bowling on day one?

If you can go around all the Sri Lankan grounds, change the soil composition and the grass species, not to mention the climate, and tell them to produce surfaces that fly completely in the face of what has been naturally produced their for half a century, good luck to you.

Why do cricket fans think they have a right to tell one entire section of the cricket landscape that their skill set is less meaningful than another?

It’s the same as this stupid argument about how Indian pitches are somehow substandard because they produce low scores when the ball turns from day one, but England can produce pitches that have produced 13 (it was 13 or 11, I can’t remember which but I posted it in another thread a few days ago) scores of less than 100 in the last 10 years. India has produced 4.

‘Oh that’s okay because in England the wickets were claimed with pace.’

Markham has a small samplel, Braithwaite would not have got a test 10-20 years ago and highlighting the fact that Karunaranatne working his way to 40 says it all.

As for Sri Lanka let’s ignore the match fixing pitch doctoring allegations and their pitches have been far worse than 10-20 years ago.

 

[TheGreatBarryB]

What about the sensational state of Test Cricket bowling now?

Makes the batting even worse. Remember the glory days of fast bowling, Windies, Hadlee, Imran Khan, Wasim Akram, Kapil Dev,

 

[corbies]

Makes the batting even worse. Remember the glory days of fast bowling, Windies, Hadlee, Imran Khan, Wasim Akram, Kapil Dev,

Yep and outside the select handful you just mentioned there were some atrocious fast bowlers. Hadlee's last test he was partnered by Danny Morrison and Martin Snedden (Yuck). India had absolutely no fast bowlers to partner Dev. England barely had a decent fast bowler for 20 years. South Africa weren't even playing test cricket. Compare it to now where you have NZ led by Boult and Southee, the plethora of fast bowlers India now have led by Bumrah and Shami, England's greatest ever bowling pairing and South Africa have genuinely 2 line-ups worth of quality of fast bowlers led by Steyn, Rabada and Philander.

 

[Sproj]

Likely Greats: Smith, Kohli, Williamson
Next Echelon Down: Pujara, Warner, Root, Ali, Chandimal, Khawaja, Matthews, Latham, Taylor, Amla, Markram, Bravo
Young but Exciting: Pant, Shaw, Head, Pucovski, De Kock, Azam, Foakes, the Windies as a group (including the very exciting Hetmyer)

It certainly isn’t that bad if you take off your Australia has very few greats at present glasses.

 

[Wedge McManus]

Makes the batting even worse. Remember the glory days of fast bowling, Windies, Hadlee, Imran Khan, Wasim Akram, Kapil Dev,

I can't remember a better bowling era than the one from the late 90s till present. Admittedly I never got to see the great windies teams prior to 1995 but how's this for a list of world class bowlers of recent times.... Akram, Younis, kumble, bond, cairns, Lee, McGrath, Gillespie, Harris, Johnson, Clark, Boult, Anderson, broad, steyn, Donald, vaas, Pollock, ntini, warne, Lyon, Cummins, harmison, Flintoff, Jones, swann, Gough, caddick (in the 2nd innings), Bumrah, shami, Ashwin, rabada, philander, Gabriel, Walsh, Ambrose.... probably heaps more too. Despite the commercial nature of pitches over the last twenty years fast bowling is still in rude health imo which always keeps batsmen honest. I agree batsmen aren't aren't as limpet-like at the crease in tests anymore but tests will always be the pinnacle of the sport. T20 is in the growth phase of its lifecycle and is bringing people out the house into the grounds which is great. Once it matures and with good governance a balance will be reached. I'd like to see less t20 internationals tbh I reckon they could almost be made extinct. Still some great test batters going around mate. Don't worry the wheel will turn. Once crowds are oversaturated with the short form they'll vote with their feet and we'll see less. Day night tests will help too but imo the biggest obstacle to tests is the pathetic nature of some of the tier two touring teams like the windies and Sri Lanka Zimbabwe Bangladesh etc. What we are seeing now at manuka oval is a disgrace on a good pitch. The character of some of those guys must be seriously questioned as they give up immediately upon getting off the plane. Blame them for cricket's uncertainty

 

[PhatBoy]

Makes the batting even worse. Remember the glory days of fast bowling, Windies, Hadlee, Imran Khan, Wasim Akram, Kapil Dev,

I see your sarcasm detector has gone awol.

Today’s bowling standard is generally fantastic .

 

[strewthcobber]

The general standard of bowling is better now than it has ever been in that there are far fewer awful test bowlers than teams used to regularly put out.

The standard of fielding is also way better than ever. It wasn't that long ago that most players didn't ever dive for a ball in the field.

Technical analysis of batters flaws is also at an all time high. Every bowler has a plan for every batter going around.

And despite all of that, this decade is basically equal second for batting averages along with the 20s and 30s and 00s, behind just the 40s


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[footyfan1978]

He is right about the general batting in Test matches.
But those claiming the word sensational state of Test bowling, are way off. But the bowling is least not in a trough. Still some good bowlers around but as a batch nothing sensational. Australia, NZ and South Africa have good pace stocks, India have never really had any so they at least have a few now. I think the pitches have made spin bowling more dangerous that I seen in past. Struggle to find star batsmen though. India got Kohli

I think many batsmen have honed their whiite ball cricket skills it has come at a cost to overall batting standards for long form of game.

 

[Wedge McManus]

80s and 90s and even 00s far better bowlers than today.

Absolute rubbish

 

[TheGreatBarryB]

80s, 90s and 00s bowlers better than todays. Todays s**t batsmen make them look better. I mean we’re in an era where Windies batsmen don’t even want to play Test Cricket and for others it’s a lower priority to s**t..short form

 

[TheGreatBarryB]

I mean you guys tell me that batsmen today play spin as well with their feet as they did in the past? Seriously deluded if you think that.

 

[sherb]

Thanks 20/20.

 

[Badesumofu]

We're in a bowler-dominated period of Test Cricket which I personally enjoy.

I was thinking a bit about this recently and whether T20 is to blame for poor batting. I theorised that while T20 obviously requires a different approach than Test Cricket, that the relevant skills were more transferable for bowlers than they are for batters. A bowler might aim to put each of 6 deliveries in a different spot in a T20 and then put them all in the same spot in a Test but the basic skill of accuracy is the much same. It's a change of strategy rather than something that requires different skills (to a greater degree than for batting anyway).

 

[strewthcobber]

I mean you guys tell me that batsmen today play spin as well with their feet as they did in the past? Seriously deluded if you think that.

If you want to see some appalling play to spin, go watch some old Murali/Warne highlights from the 90s

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[TheGreatBarryB]

If you want to see some appalling play to spin, go watch some old Murali/Warne highlights from the 90s

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Yeah let’s pick two of greatest bowlers in history. Imagine them today, end up with 1,000 wickets each.

 

[PhatBoy]

He is right about the general batting in Test matches.
But those claiming the word sensational state of Test bowling, are way off. But the bowling is least not in a trough. Still some good bowlers around but as a batch nothing sensational. Australia, NZ and South Africa have good pace stocks, India have never really had any so they at least have a few now. I think the pitches have made spin bowling more dangerous that I seen in past. Struggle to find star batsmen though. India got Kohli

I think many batsmen have honed their whiite ball cricket skills it has come at a cost to overall batting standards for long form of game.

In the 80s through to early 90s, the bowling ‘stars’ were limited to the West Indies, with the likes of Botham, Willis in the early part of the 80s, Imran, Wasim anda Waqar in the 90s, Hadlee, Dev, and McDermott and Hughes the only aussies close to star status. Sadie was the lone gun spinner and he wasn’t THAT good.
There were no South Africans, no Sri Lankan bowlers worth anything (now that Herath has retired that is probably still the case), and no Bangladesh who at home at least, present a huge challenge for batsmen.
South Africa have not one but two bowlers in their team RIGHT NOW who could both finish their careers considered among the greatest bowlers of all time. And that doesn’t include the bloke who takes the new ball and averages 21 for them.

As far as opening batsmen go, what exactly is this gold standard that was apparently around in the 80s through to the early 90s?

Greenidge and Haynes are a given. What beyond that? Gavaskar.

There were 9 players in total from the start of 1980 through to the start of 1992 who opened and averaged more than 40 (qualification - 15 innings as an opener).

In the last 3 years there are 6 openers who have the same claim.

In one quarter the time sample.

Revisionism

 

[TheGreatBarryB]

In the 80s through to early 90s, the bowling ‘stars’ were limited to the West Indies, with the likes of Botham, Willis in the early part of the 80s, Imran, Wasim anda Waqar in the 90s, Hadlee, Dev, and McDermott and Hughes the only aussies close to star status. Sadie was the lone gun spinner and he wasn’t THAT good.
There were no South Africans, no Sri Lankan bowlers worth anything (now that Herath has retired that is probably still the case), and no Bangladesh who at home at least, present a huge challenge for batsmen.
South Africa have not one but two bowlers in their team RIGHT NOW who could both finish their careers considered among the greatest bowlers of all time. And that doesn’t include the bloke who takes the new ball and averages 21 for them.

As far as opening batsmen go, what exactly is this gold standard that was apparently around in the 80s through to the early 90s?

Greenidge and Haynes are a given. What beyond that? Gavaskar.

There were 9 players in total from the start of 1980 through to the start of 1992 who opened and averaged more than 40 (qualification - 15 innings as an opener).

In the last 3 years there are 6 openers who have the same claim.

In one quarter the time sample.

Revisionism

Yet you completely ignore the Windies 15+ years of domination. South Africa played most of the 90s with Donald. And you wonder why openers averages were down. Talk about revisionism.

 

[corbies]

I mean you guys tell me that batsmen today play spin as well with their feet as they did in the past? Seriously deluded if you think that.

There's this great thing called Youtube where you can watch extended highlights (like an hour plus) of a lot of matches from the 80s and early 90s. Watch them and tell me all the batsman have great techniques. There are some absolute shockers outside the gun players.

 

[TheGreatBarryB]

There's this great thing called Youtube where you can watch extended highlights (like an hour plus) of a lot of matches from the 80s and early 90s. Watch them and tell me all the batsman have great techniques. There are some absolute shockers outside the gun players.

Point is there are more shockers today and nowhere near as good a players of spin.

 

[PhatBoy]

Yet you completely ignore the Windies 15+ years of domination. South Africa played most of the 90s with Donald. And you wonder why openers averages were down. Talk about revisionism.

You’re trying to argue that in the 80s era there was this cavalcade of great bowlers and opening batsmen.

I’ve just proven to you numerically that there wasn’t.

I think you need to look up what revisionism means.

 

[TheGreatBarryB]

You’re trying to argue that in the 80s era there was this cavalcade of great bowlers and opening batsmen.

I’ve just proven to you numerically that there wasn’t.

I think you need to look up what revisionism means.

Better than last few years..easily. 80s Windies alone would have destroyed many openers averages. You’re comparing ‘ 80-92, their peak period. Plus openers of that time didn’t have luxury of Zimbabwe and Bangladesh.