The beginning of the end of Australia as a cricketing superpower.

[RightWingRoo]

Anything can happen. Could have said this 5 years ago. How would our current team have looked from back then.

Smith - retired or too old, lost his eye.
Khawaja - already done
Marnus - who?
Green - nothing more than a prospect
Head - maybe if he can sort out his technical flaws
Marsh - lol
Carey - tick
Starc - dropped by now
Cummins - tick
Lyon - probably retired or dropped
Hazlewood - probably retired

The fact those guys are still there is 2 fold. They're still performing well enough. But there is also a lack of selection pressure, with the batsman in particular.
The production line isn't churning out the talents it once did.

Note I said the beginning of the end, not that it will all fall over tomorrow.
But think we'll be in a pretty poor state come 2026, once this team has largely broken up.

 

[Kuuz]

Utterly embarrassing to lose a Windies side that was so inexperienced and poorly performed in recent times.

Australian cricket is at a crossroads. We've got an aging side with most showing signs that their best is behind them. Our batting got worse as the summer went on and was only held together by individual stand out innings. E.g Head in Adelaide and Smith in Brisbane.

But there is precious little in reserve. There is no evidence to suggest that anyone currently outside the team, could improve the overall performance of the side.
It looks very grim

 

[Westend]

Anything can happen. Could have said this 5 years ago. How would our current team have looked from back then.

Smith - retired or too old, lost his eye.
Khawaja - already done
Marnus - who?
Green - nothing more than a prospect
Head - maybe if he can sort out his technical flaws
Marsh - lol
Carey - tick
Starc - dropped by now
Cummins - tick
Lyon - probably retired or dropped
Hazlewood - probably retired

amazing that if they are so bad they only lost by 8 runs ..and that took one of the best bowling performances of all time to beat them

its not that bad we have plenty of talent in the wings

Morris Jhye Spencer Johnstone Murphy....thats a pretty good attack right there

Mcsweeney hardie ...are very good prospects...young Ollie Davies kellway Teague hunt Sutherland Perry webster

there is talent coming through

 

[Westend]

and fraser Mcgurik ...talent is pretty special

 

[RAPPA]

Well this is incredibly reactionary. This is like when collingwood finally dropped a game last year. Didn’t hurt them in the end.

 

[Trojan90]

amazing that if they are so bad they only lost by 8 runs ..and that took one of the best bowling performances of all time

Think you missed my point. I think our team is great.

But go back 5 years and the cupboard was bare then, nobody would have predicted our current 11 would have looked like this and been so good. No reason we won’t still be great in the future just because there’s no obvious talent shining through.

 

[Westend]

Think you missed my point. I think our team is great.

But go back 5 years and the cupboard was bare then, nobody would have predicted our current 11 would have looked like this and been so good. No reason we won’t still be great in the future just because there’s no obvious talent shining through.

Roger ..all good mis read

 

[RightWingRoo]

amazing that if they are so bad they only lost by 8 runs ..and that took one of the best bowling performances of all time to beat them

its not that bad we have plenty of talent in the wings

Morris Jhye Spencer Johnstone Murphy....thats a pretty good attack right there

Mcsweeney hardie ...are very good prospects...young Ollie Davies kellway Teague hunt Sutherland Perry webster

there is talent coming through

The bowling will be OK, but highly likely not at the high standards of the current attack. Jhye is our best prospect, but can't stay fit for more than a month at a time sadly.
Would need a McGrath, Stuart Clark, Hazlewood type bowler in the side. If we play Morris and Johnson in the same side.

Problem is only Hardie and from a very small sample size Davies, average more than 40. Would need to hope that someone can come in and play above his average like Marnus did.

 

[RightWingRoo]

Well this is incredibly reactionary. This is like when collingwood finally dropped a game last year. Didn’t hurt them in the end.

Don't think that equivalence works here. Pies already had the double chance locked in when they had a little slump late in the season. Not a whole lot to play for

Losing this test meant we didn't win the series and have only won 4 of our last 8 tests.

The lack of stand out performers below the current side, is a concern. Only 2 players under 30 and at least 4 will be retired in 2 years time.
Going to be a serious drop in performance beyond that, this was a taste of what's to come.

 

[Gethelred]

If you're looking for a problem, it isn't really with Head and Marsh. The problem is that over the past 12 months, we've been 2 for * all due to Marnus' regression and Smith's slide.

Marnus has always been lucky, but now he's robbed of the form that made that luck work for him. Smith's innings here was good - that ramp under pressure was a thing of beauty, and he came very close to making history for himself and the team - but outside of that he's batted rather poorly over the same time period. Head and Marsh's good form covered their doldrums and Khawaja's consistency meant that we were always competitive, but the problem isn't in the aggressive 'you win some, you lose some' middle order. It's in the no.3 and 4 positions failing to make runs 3 innings out of 4.

And anyone behaving as though it's suddenly become apparent that the team is old and we're in the waning of a number of greats needs to get their eyes checked for short distance vision because the team being long in the tooth has been pretty ******* clear.

Despairing about it doesn't get you anywhere.

 

[Blue1980]

There will be generational change coming and possibly some erratic performances in that transition.

In terms of beginning of the end as a superpower, what does that mean? I find it very hard to see us not being in the top 3-4 sides in the world even in a rebuilding/replenishing phase.

There is no super side in the world and hasn’t been for a very long time. South Africa between about 06-16 were very good and England between 2010-13 or so, but those sides were still beatable and probably no better than what we have been from 2019 till now.

People keep judging this side vs the all time great sides between 95-08, and that’s an impossible standard. That side had 3 guys who could easily make an all time world XI (McGrath, gilly and Warne, with the later 2 being locks), our greatest opening batting combo ever, 2nd best number 3 to Bradman, and we had so much depth especially in batting guys like Law, Siddons, Love and cox play 2 tests between them.

Our current lineup has world class bowling and pretty good batting. But it isn't infallible and never will be

 

[greyhound punter]

Shocking week for Australian cricket. Topped off by England beating India from what is almost always a losing position anywhere, let alone in India.

Marnus, Head, Marsh and Green are our weak links - i don't like that middle order at all.

Marnus

Has had a shocking summer. Apologists will point to 3 50's v Pakistan. Anyone can score a 60 here and there - we need big 100s and we aren't getting them. He is a poor number 3 - him and Usman in the top 3 don't put any of the bowlers under pressure. Both are striking mid to low 40's. We need more than that. We could get away with it when Warner was there - we can't anymore. 2 for 100 after 40 overs is a middling score these days - bowling teams know that one or two poles and all of a sudden you are into the bowlers with no damage on the board. Indeed, that is exactly what happened time after time since the winter.

Head

Shocking summer. The hundred at a flat Adelaide Oval shouldn't fool anyone. Having one of your top 5 bats get a King Pair (coming in at 5 i may add) sums up the summer. Teams don't fear him. Simple.

Green

A nothing summer. Should have been chomping at the bit. People have been saying he is the best young bat since Ponting. I remember a young Ponting taking down Ambrose and Walsh at the Gabba in 95/96 - the punter was 21 or 22 at the time. I remember the Punter flaying England to all parts in 1997 to help get our Ashes campaign back on track. There is no way Green could play any innings like that at this stage.


Test cricket is being changed by bazball - batsmen need to be taking the game on and pushing forward. If we don't change we are going to get left behind.

Id be opening with

Head
Green
Marsh
Smith
Usman
Marnus
Carey


The top 3 have to be attacking - the days of your attacking batsmen coming in lower down the order are over.

 

[greyhound punter]

If you're looking for a problem, it isn't really with Head and Marsh. The problem is that over the past 12 months, we've been 2 for * all due to Marnus' regression and Smith's slide.

Marnus has always been lucky, but now he's robbed of the form that made that luck work for him. Smith's innings here was good - that ramp under pressure was a thing of beauty, and he came very close to making history for himself and the team - but outside of that he's batted rather poorly over the same time period. Head and Marsh's good form covered their doldrums and Khawaja's consistency meant that we were always competitive, but the problem isn't in the aggressive 'you win some, you lose some' middle order. It's in the no.3 and 4 positions failing to make runs 3 innings out of 4.

And anyone behaving as though it's suddenly become apparent that the team is old and we're in the waning of a number of greats needs to get their eyes checked for short distance vision because the team being long in the tooth has been pretty ******* clear.

Despairing about it doesn't get you anywhere.

Head has had a shocking summer - a putrid summer. He should be opening where he can stay leg-side of the new rock and pump it square and through the covers. I'd love to see him flaying the bowlers over point and putting it into the people.

We need our attacking batsmen coming in hot. Head, Marsh to open, or both in the top 3, that is a non-negotiable. Both need to be taking the game on, pumping the ball to all corners of the ground.

We missed a trick this summer with selection. Going to cost us next summer against India and almost certainly against England. Dark times.

 

[PhatBoy]

If you're looking for a problem, it isn't really with Head and Marsh. The problem is that over the past 12 months, we've been 2 for * all due to Marnus' regression and Smith's slide.

Marnus has always been lucky, but now he's robbed of the form that made that luck work for him. Smith's innings here was good - that ramp under pressure was a thing of beauty, and he came very close to making history for himself and the team - but outside of that he's batted rather poorly over the same time period. Head and Marsh's good form covered their doldrums and Khawaja's consistency meant that we were always competitive, but the problem isn't in the aggressive 'you win some, you lose some' middle order. It's in the no.3 and 4 positions failing to make runs 3 innings out of 4.

And anyone behaving as though it's suddenly become apparent that the team is old and we're in the waning of a number of greats needs to get their eyes checked for short distance vision because the team being long in the tooth has been pretty ******* clear.

Despairing about it doesn't get you anywhere.

That 6 by Smith was as good a shot in a high pressure scenario in a test match as anything I can think of. Ridiculous.

 

[Blue1980]

Head has had a shocking summer - a putrid summer. He should be opening where he can stay leg-side of the new rock and pump it square and through the covers. I'd love to see him flaying the bowlers over point and putting it into the people.

We need our attacking batsmen coming in hot. Head, Marsh to open, or both in the top 3, that is a non-negotiable. Both need to be taking the game on, pumping the ball to all corners of the ground.

We missed a trick this summer with selection. Going to cost us next summer against India and almost certainly against England. Dark times.

Those series are both a long way off, a lot to happen and it’s not like India and England are without problems either.

 

[Plugger35]

I can't wait to read this thread after the Black Caps destroy Australia 2-0 in the upcoming test series in NZ.

 

[Grand Uncle Horace]

I get it's alarmist, but the alarm bells should be ringing.
This was our best side and we folded like a deck of cards.
Depth is somewhere close to zero, very few putting up compelling cases to suggest they can succeed in International Cricket.

Cookers get cooked.

One reason shield averages are down is that pitches outside of SA and WA are less likely to be the autobahns served up in the past.

Having the first rounds of the Shield barely out of winter means greener pitches and tougher times for bats. I don't mind this. Bowlers have copped it in the neck for too long.

Batting averages will improve when the Shield resumes.

 

[Around the Wicket]

You can partly put this down to not resting players at all, same thing happened in England they died in the ass after a few Tests, rain saved then from losing 3-2

 

[Around the Wicket]

If you're looking for a problem, it isn't really with Head and Marsh. The problem is that over the past 12 months, we've been 2 for * all due to Marnus' regression and Smith's slide.

Marnus has always been lucky, but now he's robbed of the form that made that luck work for him. Smith's innings here was good - that ramp under pressure was a thing of beauty, and he came very close to making history for himself and the team - but outside of that he's batted rather poorly over the same time period. Head and Marsh's good form covered their doldrums and Khawaja's consistency meant that we were always competitive, but the problem isn't in the aggressive 'you win some, you lose some' middle order. It's in the no.3 and 4 positions failing to make runs 3 innings out of 4.

And anyone behaving as though it's suddenly become apparent that the team is old and we're in the waning of a number of greats needs to get their eyes checked for short distance vision because the team being long in the tooth has been pretty ******* clear.

Despairing about it doesn't get you anywhere.

Labs has been s**t but his been in early every game, Warner wasn't doing his job bar 2 fluke 100's.

I said last Test Head needed some consistency after that 100 and couple lept to his defence because he averages 44.. his hit or miss, he gets out early often, needs to work into his innings abit better.

 

[Westend]

Head

Shocking summer. The hundred at a flat Adelaide Oval shouldn't fool anyone. Having one of your top 5 bats get a King Pair (coming in at 5 i may add) sums up the summer. Teams don't fear him. Simple.

Punter are you trolling dude come on......

it was the greenest and grassiest adelaide oval pitch we have seen in years....the game ended in just over 2 and a bit days

credit where credit is due it was a hundred scored in very favourite bowling conditions

 

[BACCS]

Let's not overreact to one loss shall we.

I think we should be moving to Tassie, personally

 

[BACCS]

Yeah i agree with that-i think we got lucky in the world cup as we never got thrown off course in the finals and needed a plan B. You saw on day 1 when the windies bats built that 6th wicket partnership we had no plan B. Things like declaring last night which was moronic. And today smith was batting very well all it needed was one or two guys to graft with him and we are home. But marsh and starc in particular have no plan B.

I agree cummins is an outstanding bowler and human being but he doesnt have a tactical brain. Ronnie strikes me as similar one of the best guys you will meet in cricket but not great tactically. I think hes too close to the players and not prepared to overrule them on tactics which is a problem. I agree aside from smith we havent got a lot of tactically better coaching options so we urgently need to get some tactically smart assistant coaches and advisors in the team.

So, let me get this correct, we got 'lucky' in the WC because we executed our gameplan so well it didn't require Plan B? Like, wtf?

 

[BACCS]

Well this is incredibly reactionary. This is like when collingwood finally dropped a game last year. Didn’t hurt them in the end.

Yah, but did they have a Plan B?!

 

[Jamurp]

Silly thread, we just lost to a team that was better over the course of the match, and came up against one of the best test spells ever seen.

We have players out of form, perhaps some complacency too. The NZ series will be interesting, if we get rolled 2-0 then questions need to be asked.

We had a flat summer really, team is still very very good and has achieved a lot.

Fair play to the Windies, they were simply better.

 

[icyflakes]

Silly thread, we just lost to a team that was better over the course of the match, and came up against one of the best test spells ever seen.

We have players out of form, perhaps some complacency too. The NZ series will be interesting, if we get rolled 2-0 then questions need to be asked.

We had a flat summer really, team is still very very good and has achieved a lot.

Fair play to the Windies, they were simply better.

As much as I think we have BIG problems, it's important to note that the Windies were absolutely carried by Shamar Joseph. Without him this isn't a contest.