The beginning of the end of Australia as a cricketing superpower.

[Blue1980]

You can partly put this down to not resting players at all, same thing happened in England they died in the ass after a few Tests, rain saved then from losing 3-2

I think the issue is we usually rest guys for meaningless ODI and t20s, but we had world cups late 2022 for t20 and ODI World Cup last year, where everyone wants to play.

Then everyone always wants to play every test. Ashes also had a bit to do with Lyon going down. I reckon we win the 3rd test if Lyon plays at Headingley. In saying that if Stokes didn’t declare day 1 of first test we probably lose that one.

I don’t think it was that much fatigue though, the wickets were more juiced up than usual and our batting is probably over balanced with dashers and can be a bit flimsy. Pakistan and Windies bowled well too.

As I’ve said before, hopefully we are heading into a period of more unpredictable test cricket. Wickets like those produced this Australian summer definitely help test cricket as a products

 

[Blue1980]

Agree with this. Some outstanding bowling, some poor shots and some dropped catches and we still only just lost, it happens, it happened to India recently, it happens to all sides.

I’m not sure the batting order is quite right, but I don’t have a solution that doesn’t come with it’s own problems, one idea for our top - middle is this;

Smith
Ussie
Head
Green
Labs
Marsh
Carey

I think having Head, Marsh, Carey all next to each other and tge more circumspect batters all together is creating an imbalance. Would this help us, maybe, I don’t really know.

I don’t like head at 3, opening could be a more like for like with Warner. So basically just swap smith and head around potentially.

Thing is green and smith were our best batsmen in Brisbane 2nd innings so it muddles the picture, it isn’t the same guys succeeding of failing each time.

 

[Blue1980]

As pointed out, the issue is in the batting, and winning tests and ODI's with such a great bowling attack is masking the problems with the batting order. Bowling wins matches. We've got the best bowling attack ever and it did it's job again all summer and in the lost test.

However, while the team wins, little will change. You get the sweet hit of a win, so you go back to that, no matter how it was achieved. Lose a few tests and then the selectors will be forced to have a look at the line-up.

With the bowlers getting on, there could be a bit of inexperience entering the line-up which may affect the ability to pick up wickets and then the glaring problems with batting will be exposed. Could be too late. Some blooding now is in order. Have a look at Spencer Johnson, Jye Richardson, and the next best spinner in NZ. Give them a taste. I know it's not the way to hand out caps to players who aren't the best, but a longer term view may need to be taken here.

Outside of when we had both Warne and McGrath, our current attack can go toe to toe with any we have had. Even if you replace Lyon with Warne then you probably have our best ever attack, as I don’t think Cummins is that far behind McGrath and may not be at all by the end of his career.

 

[Blue1980]

We didn't win the ODI WC because of our bowling attack, our top order made mountains of runs. Warner, Head, Maxwell and Marsh all made multiple 100s.

Zampa carried our bowling attack for a large part of the tournament, but the fast bowlers executed when it mattered during the finals.

One day cricket is very different, batting certainly isn’t an issue there. Also all those you mentioned aside from Head have been much better ODI players (well Warner more recently as he struggled last 3-4 years in tests but one day form still pretty good).

But yes our ODI side I’m not really concerned about at all. I don’t think we are on our own though worldwide in terms of wondering where our next batch of test quality batsmen are coming from.

Need to go off hunches and find diamonds in the rough like we did with Smith and Labs (wannabe leggies who are actually batsmen basically)

 

[Blue1980]

Our bowlers have lost a yard of pace. Still more than capable of taking 20 wickets when conditions suit....but how many times have we had teams on the rack after a new ball burst only for them to rally and get a solid score.

Huge difference between 143 km and 133 km. Tail enders aren't keen to get behind the line at 143; totally different scenario at 133 km.

Opposition teams scoring from number 5 to 11 has hurt us massively over the last 12 months.

As a percentage lower order scoring higher than we would like but I think overall we are still bowling sides out for low totals.

We are still winning more tests than we lose by a fair distance.

 

[BACCS]

One day cricket is very different, batting certainly isn’t an issue there. Also all those you mentioned aside from Head have been much better ODI players (well Warner more recently as he struggled last 3-4 years in tests but one day form still pretty good).

But yes our ODI side I’m not really concerned about at all. I don’t think we are on our own though worldwide in terms of wondering where our next batch of test quality batsmen are coming from.

Need to go off hunches and find diamonds in the rough like we did with Smith and Labs (wannabe leggies who are actually batsmen basically)

I think McSweeney is absolutely in the frame once a spot opens up, just screams Test quality and is a great leader too. No doubt he will be playing Test cricket within the next 3-5 years.

 

[4Seasons]

The Vics got some good crowds to games at the G, back in those days.

Depends on what CA see as their priority. A BBL that still has limited interest and doesn't help Australian cricket much overall.
Or a shorter comp so the shield can continue until mid December and re-start late January. That better prepares test players.

Agree about ODI's, they're dead outside the world cup.

The BBL doesn’t have limited interest.

 

[The 747]

The BBL doesn’t have limited interest.

If the BBL doesn't have limited interest, then it has unlimited interest no?

 

[Jim Prideaux]

I don’t like head at 3, opening could be a more like for like with Warner. So basically just swap smith and head around potentially.

Thing is green and smith were our best batsmen in Brisbane 2nd innings so it muddles the picture, it isn’t the same guys succeeding of failing each time.

Agree, but I do t think Green can go to 3 yet.

 

[icyflakes]

The thing is, anyone who comes in is unlikely to be a newbie, this isn’t an afl side bottoming out. They’ll most like be 25+ with 5+ years of FC cricket at a minimum. There may be the odd youngster in the mix, but i doubt there will be many if any.

On the coaching style, I think it’s hands off in so much as it’s collaborative. They have very clear plans, and they stick to them - they play the percentages knowing that more often than not it will get them the results they’re looking for. It’s a very process oriented approach. Sometimes this looks boring and can be frustrating to watch, but the results are there. With new team members the results may dip for a time, and some plans may need to be adjusted as such, but at this stage I’d back them.

My thinking on his hands off approach was more in regards to their training than their strategy. They basically have individual training plans, which means as the guys get older they taper off their training and listen to their body to adapt on the fly.

It's a pretty big maturity gap that guys in the mid-late 20's may not have adjusted to yet, regardless of FC experience.

 

[Jim Prideaux]

My thinking on his hands off approach was more in regards to their training than their strategy. They basically have individual training plans, which means as the guys get older they taper off their training and listen to their body to adapt on the fly.

It's a pretty big maturity gap that guys in the mid-late 20's may not have adjusted to yet, regardless of FC experience.

I think that’s the way many teams go now, the bowlers have bowling coaches, the batters have their own too. I doubt many teams have a hands on coach. Head coach is more a manager role.

 

[Blue1980]

Agree, but I do t think Green can go to 3 yet.

I’d still have labs 3

 

[Blue1980]

My thinking on his hands off approach was more in regards to their training than their strategy. They basically have individual training plans, which means as the guys get older they taper off their training and listen to their body to adapt on the fly.

It's a pretty big maturity gap that guys in the mid-late 20's may not have adjusted to yet, regardless of FC experience.

Mitch marsh is a much better player now than he was in his mid late 20s. Must be hard for multi format players finding their feet trying to refine their games.

 

[Jim Prideaux]

I’d still have labs 3

Fair enough. I think Labs best position is 4