Opinion Port Adelaide - how do you rate our development of players

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Windy Cindy said:
If he is as good or promising as some posters on here have you believe i find it amusing that 17 other clubs havent knocked his door down with offers.

Limited ruckman who is vfl bound at best.
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It's not just you, this is a very common argument, but this line of argument about players is really flawed.

He won our SANFL B&F just 2 years ago. His tapwork is clearly high level. He had plenty of promise, but when a club with a godawful ruck division plays him out of position in the SANFL and then has to have their arm twisted off to pick him, teams shy away.

A player not being successful under Ken Hinkley doesn't mean they might not have been successful elsewhere or wouldn't be successful in a good program. Our development of talls over the past decade has been absolutely horrendous.
 
El_Scorcho said:
It's not just you, this is a very common argument, but this line of argument about players is really flawed.

He won our SANFL B&F just 2 years ago. His tapwork is clearly high level. He had plenty of promise, but when a club with a godawful ruck division plays him out of position in the SANFL and then has to have their arm twisted off to pick him, teams shy away.

A player not being successful under Ken Hinkley doesn't mean they might not have been successful elsewhere or wouldn't be successful in a good program. Our development of talls over the past decade has been absolutely horrendous.
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Yep. How many star junior high draft picks have gone to poor AFL clubs and subsequently failed over the years, even when given a chance elsewhere? Just look at Watts, Trengove, Toumpas, Mayes at our club alone. There's no way that players who came into the league with that much talent never had any chance of making it as AFL footballers. Development is key, and even a player with the talent to make it at AFL level player can find themselves flaming out beyond the point of no return if developed improperly in their teens and early 20's.

The reality is we'll never know what Sam Hayes could have been if he'd been backed in and given 30-40 games to this point. Even if he goes elsewhere and fails, that doesn't necessarily mean he would have failed if developed properly here.
 
I'd give it a 1 out of 10, possibly 2 out of 10.

The interesting thing is that we are bad at developing winning players because we don't have that winning mentality from the coaching and administration staff of Kenny Average and David Kochballer. We can keep players though. They'll be given cushy jobs. Monorail.

But the Cows are actually quite good at developing their players in recent times but their players generally want to leave.
 
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0 out of 10

Somehow people like giving Ken credit for playing "da youth" by picking Connor Rozee. Anybody that succeeds here develops in spite of our system not because of it.
 
Craig McRae was head of development coach at Collingwood for the 2011-15 seasons. He was put in charge of showing Mason Cox how to kick a footy and understand the game.

Before that he coached the U/18 Qld side to the Div 2 title in the championships, was head of development at Richmond between 2007-09 seasons, was head of development and reserves coach at Brisbane in 2010, after Collingwood, he returned to Richmond and became VFL coach for 2016 and a few years later became an assistant coach to Hardwick in 2020, then went to the Hawks in 2021 season to become their assistant coach.

He also was the Melbourne Storm's kicking coach from late 2013 until he got the Collingwood job at end of 2021 footy season.

That's the sort of development coach we need, someone who is good enough to not only teach and impart knowledge, but is good enough to one day push hard to become a senior coach.

Now it helps that McRae started his footy career before it was a full time profession, got his teaching degree at Uni SA, then did 4 years primary school teaching in Brisbane after he was drafted by the Brisbane Bears when he was 20, so he was a trained professional to teach and impart knowledge to younger people.

Lets get at least one, but maybe two or three individuals with a track record of teaching and imparting knowledge and skills to younger people, to be our next development coach(es).
 
There is a another reason why McRae made a good development coach before he progressed up the ladder.

www.theage.com.au

McRae of sunshine: The Lion bringing his winning ways to Collingwood

If Collingwood win, Craig McRae will have turned this gargantuan powerhouse yet perennial bridesmaid club into a word that he likes to use and which has seldom been attached to them for decades: winners.
www.theage.com.au www.theage.com.au


But if the Magpies win, McRae will have turned this gargantuan powerhouse yet perennial bridesmaid club into a word that he likes to use and which has seldom been attached to the Collingwood Football Club for decades: winners.

“I’m a winner,” was the first comment McRae made to the Collingwood panel interviewing him for the coaching position late in 2021. If it sounds contradictory - McRae carries himself with little ego, as ex-Brisbane teammates attest - he quickly provided context for what “winner” meant.

“He said ‘what I mean is every day I practise winning behaviours,’ ” recalled Collingwood’s former board member and joint president, Peter Murphy, who was on the coach-search panel with Paul Licuria, the football director and influential football boss and 1990 premiership player Graham Wright. “And sometimes I fall short.”
 
RussellEbertHandball said:
There is a another reason why McRae made a good development coach before he progressed up the ladder.

www.theage.com.au

McRae of sunshine: The Lion bringing his winning ways to Collingwood

If Collingwood win, Craig McRae will have turned this gargantuan powerhouse yet perennial bridesmaid club into a word that he likes to use and which has seldom been attached to them for decades: winners.
www.theage.com.au www.theage.com.au


But if the Magpies win, McRae will have turned this gargantuan powerhouse yet perennial bridesmaid club into a word that he likes to use and which has seldom been attached to the Collingwood Football Club for decades: winners.

“I’m a winner,” was the first comment McRae made to the Collingwood panel interviewing him for the coaching position late in 2021. If it sounds contradictory - McRae carries himself with little ego, as ex-Brisbane teammates attest - he quickly provided context for what “winner” meant.

“He said ‘what I mean is every day I practise winning behaviours,’ ” recalled Collingwood’s former board member and joint president, Peter Murphy, who was on the coach-search panel with Paul Licuria, the football director and influential football boss and 1990 premiership player Graham Wright. “And sometimes I fall short.”
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Had to miss out on this guy for Hinkley's pride or something. Shocking decision.
 
There was an article in the press a few days back that was pumping up Jason Cripps' tyres. It told us how good our recruiting had been in recent times and how much we owed to Cripps and Co. The telling thing was the only examples of player development they could point to were smaller players like Zac Butters and Connor Rozee etc. Ominously missing were tall players.
 
raptalia said:
There was an article in the press a few days back that was pumping up Jason Cripps' tyres. It told us how good our recruiting had been in recent times and how much we owed to Cripps and Co. The telling thing was the only examples of player development they could point to were smaller players like Zac Butters and Connor Rozee etc. Ominously missing were tall players.
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Isn't it Geoff Parker that does the talent ID in the junior grades?
 
El_Scorcho said:
He won our SANFL B&F just 2 years ago. His tapwork is clearly high level. He had plenty of promise, but when a club with a godawful ruck division plays him out of position in the SANFL and then has to have their arm twisted off to pick him, teams shy away.
Click to expand...
Better watch out for clubs chasing Nick Moore then.

Or maybe Sam Hayes won the SANFL BnF because he played every game in the SANFL season. And no one else did.
 
Peninsula Boy said:
I'd give it a 1 out of 10, possibly 2 out of 10.

The interesting thing is that we are bad at developing winning players because we don't have that winning mentality from the coaching and administration staff of Kenny Average and David Kochballer. We can keep players though. They'll be given cushy jobs. Monorail.

But the Cows are actually quite good at developing their players in recent times but their players generally want to leave.
Click to expand...

Carn, I get the sentiment that there are flaws in the club, and Hinkley & others should be out. However, it has been 6 years in a row where we have finished above the Crows, and they have won a wooden spoon in that period, and have made the 8 zero times. How the * does that show they have better development than us. We haven't had the success that we crave, but let's not get carried away.
 
Duckimus Prime said:
Better watch out for clubs chasing Nick Moore then.

Or maybe Sam Hayes won the SANFL BnF because he played every game in the SANFL season. And no one else did.
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Yeah totally, a 22yo ruckman and a 24yo inside midfielder are completely comparable as AFL prospects. Great point.

It's some very creative rewriting of history to argue that Sam Hayes didn't have an excellent 2021 at SANFL level.
 

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Fade to Gray said:
Carn, I get the sentiment that there are flaws in the club, and Hinkley & others should be out. However, it has been 6 years in a row where we have finished above the Crows, and they have won a wooden spoon in that period, and have made the 8 zero times. How the * does that show they have better development than us. We haven't had the success that we crave, but let's not get carried away.
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I saw it as a general thing. I'm not saying one is better than the other, just a general trend.

Since 2016, we have been very good at drafting and also pretty good at bringing in players through trades. We dropped the ball a bit in 2017 but overall we've been pretty good. At the moment, we have a really good, healthy looking list that should be chasing flags. We have always been blessed with players or Father, Sons who want to play for us like Horne-Francis which was like manna from Heaven. We've picked up pretty good players along the way like Aliir and the like. Even this year, we needed rucks and KPDs and they fell out of a tree for us.

I see development not as how good you are on the ladder but how much potential you get out of your list overall but most importantly, your Top 25 or so. We have a very good list so we should be there or thereabouts but our development is not the best and hasn't been during the Hinkley years. As many have stated and I have stated previously, you don't need to develop great players like Connor Rozee, it is the average player that needs coaching and direction which Hinkley cannot seem to be able to do.

With the Crows, I was thinking Jake Lever, Charlie Cameron, Tyson Stengle, Jack Gunston, Mitch McGovern, Tom Doedee, etc. Guys you really don't want leaving. We've been pretty good in keeping players we want to keep. I am thinking Karl Amon is a guy we would've liked to have kept but we have enough to cover him.

The overall issue we have is that Hinkley is a poor coach with a loser mentality and has a litany of poor decisions over the years with playing bad players, old players, injured players, out of form players, gold pass players, not playing young in form players from the SANFL. Worse is that he has been allowed to lose from Koch. Underlying this entire issues is that we don't play a style of game that holds up for finals, that is, your basic contested possession football. We got killed by those types of teams, including the Crows, Collingwood and both teams we played in the Finals.

As you know, the Crows killed us both games this year and we have a much better team on talent alone.

I'll say two things, if we had a good coach, we would be playing for Premierships and Kock is an idiot. And I'm a bit worried that the Crows are building the right way with sound coaching and just need to fill a few holes and top up talent to look dangerous.
 
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