Port Adelaide's plan to use jumpers similar to Collingwood

[Devington]

Collingwood's legal team (and all club legal teams for that matter) wouldn't be doing their jobs properly if they did have a clause written into all player contracts stipulating that they reserve the right to terminate contract (with payout) for certain circumstances.

Makes you wonder...what were the nuffies on Ports Legal team doing back in the mid 90s if the prison bars were so important to them?

Being told that it was a take it or leave it deal.

 

[BustedWing]

And then even against Collingwood when we're at home.

That's what I personally want, and nobody is making it a secret.

And you've just beautifully articulated why it will never happen. There is no way the licence would have been granted under these terms, and hence why the firm stance now.

 

[BustedWing]

Being told that it was a take it or leave it deal.

Why didnt they choose to "leave it" then? You know...prison bars, heritage and what not.

 

[BustedWing]

If the club wanted to wear it more than 1 or 2 home games a year I'd understand. Personally I wouldn't want to wear the bars full time. Once or twice a year at home to celebrate what makes us unique on the national stage.

Yes you do.

Plenty of fans here have stated it very clearly.

Given the passion you have for the prison bars, I hazard a guess you do too...deep down.

That desire will appear later on if this is approved.

Time to nip it in the bud.

Your history and heritage lies in the SANFL - rich as it is. It is not AFL heritage. Time to create a new history.

 

[doppleganger]

why do you think Port Adelaide wearing the prison bars would hurt Collingwoods brand? honestly what makes you fearful of that?

???
Where do you get any of that from what I said.

I was pointing out that the Port geeza making an inane analogy with "the castle" was horrible.

But all the reasons Port put forth about identity, heritage, marketing, supporter buy in apply to Collingwood and being the sole AFL team who play in BnW stripes.

It would be no different for Carlton if a team wanted to play in all navy with a monogram, or Essendon if another team wanted to play with a red sash, the Dogs with the tricolour red, white and blue jumper etc.

And as Port are showing, they were given an inch (agreement to wear it on special occasions like 150yr celebrations, "heritage") and they now want to take a mile....even attempting to dictate what they wear as an away team, without engaging with Adelaide either.

 

[simba_]

???
Where do you get any of that from what I said.

I was pointing out that the Port geeza making an inane analogy with "the castle" was horrible.

But all the reasons Port put forth about identity, heritage, marketing, supporter buy in apply to Collingwood and being the sole AFL team who play in BnW stripes.

It would be no different for Carlton if a team wanted to play in all navy with a monogram, or Essendon if another team wanted to play with a red sash, the Dogs with the tricolour red, white and blue jumper etc.

And as Port are showing, they were given an inch (agreement to wear it on special occasions like 150yr celebrations, "heritage") and they now want to take a mile....even attempting to dictate what they wear as an away team, without engaging with Adelaide either.

It doesn't have anything to do with Collingwood lol, their identity would not be affected

 

[BustedWing]

It doesn't have anything to do with Collingwood lol, their identity would not be affected

THis has been proven false over and over in this thread.

The fact you simply choose to ignore this, does not make your position any more tenable.

 

[bomberclifford]

‘Proven’ lol

 

[BustedWing]

‘Proven’ lol

The "proof" is in the actions of the AFL and, perhaps more tellingly, the INACTIONS of the PAFC in pursing this legally, vs the court of public opinion amongst PA fans.

 

[Engimal v3]

“yOu aRe tHE PoRt pOwah”

Why do you type like that?

 

[doppleganger]

It doesn't have anything to do with Collingwood lol, their identity would not be affected

??
Their identity has always been linked with the black n white stripes.

Another club wants to muddy the waters by also being a team with black n white stripes...but no impact?

If Port is fine to move away from Magpies and black and white, and it is the 'bars' design that is important...do it in another colour combination.

 

[Taylor]

It's an interesting case about what carries into AFL from the junior leagues.

All the flags, yes.
The playing strip, no

 

[simba_]

The "proof" is in the actions of the AFL and, perhaps more tellingly, the INACTIONS of the PAFC in pursing this legally, vs the court of public opinion amongst PA fans.

what legal case is there to be made when we say it wouldn't affect Collingwood's identity? Has there been proof of Melbournites accidentally purchasing Port memorabilia, mistaking it for Collingwood goods? How are the mighty gigantic Collingwood afraid of being mistaken for someone else wearing a completely different jumper design?

 

[greatwhiteshark]

??
Their identity has always been linked with the black n white stripes.

Another club wants to muddy the waters by also being a team with black n white stripes...but no impact?

If Port is fine to move away from Magpies and black and white, and it is the 'bars' design that is important...do it in another colour combination.

I agree with you that the black and white prison bar jumper should not be worn in the AFL. Or just incorporate some very small teal stripes into it.
In regards to identity I would think the PAFC identity has always been linked to black and white stripes also.

 

[doppleganger]

It's an interesting case about what carries into AFL from the junior leagues.

All the flags, yes.
The playing strip, no

What?
Port have won 1 flag in this competition.

Collingwood (and any of the VFL teams) don't include flags won in VFA as part our VFL/AFL premierships figure?

Sure when go to club websites and own internal honour boards they reference them, but have nothing to do with the AFL....despite Geelong wanting to have them acknowledged.

 

[Ice-Wolf]

THis has been proven false over and over in this thread.

The fact you simply choose to ignore this, does not make your position any more tenable.

It has bloody well not, just because you say it will doesn't make it fact.

 

[Enviable Tradition]

The only reason the idea seems laughable is because there is currently an agreement in place that stops that from happening and has done since late 1985. You clearly do not understand the nature of the AFL’s commercial arrangements (and then seperate to that, how vital Collingwood are to those arrangements). If the AFL were to somehow allow Collingwood the ability to escape the licensing agreement (and allowing Port to wear their SANFL jersey without their approval would seem to allow them to do that assuming a condition of assigning those rights that was no other club would be allowed to wear a black and white striped jumper without their approval), pretty much every commercial deal they have would collapse. The biggest one would be the TV deal. As Ross Oakley explained in his book when dealing with this subject, “how could the VFL/AFL could not sell the rights...if they didn’t have the rights to IP of the clubs that were the subject of the broadcast”. In the same chapter he also mentioned how important club jumpers/colours were to the clubs when giving up those rights, so it is hard to believe they wouldn’t do everything in their power to hold the AFL to that agreement, or not exercise their rights to the fullest in the event the AFL breached that agreement.

You are also kidding yourself if you think Collingwood haven’t gotten something undisclosed for not causing any issues in return for each and every time you have worn the prison bars. It is not rocket science to think they have reached their limit of “one off requests” and are now done with allowing Port to wear the prison bars for good.


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So who are Collingwood going to play against?

Or do you think other clubs are going to take this massive risk out of protest about a guernsey debate they don't GAF about?

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[Pappagallo]

It has bloody well not, just because you say it will doesn't make it fact.

So far the only thing that’s been proven is that it’s not a problem in professional sports leagues that are bigger than the AFL or in professional sports leagues that are smaller than the AFL.

 

[Enviable Tradition]

The "proof" is in the actions of the AFL and, perhaps more tellingly, the INACTIONS of the PAFC in pursing this legally, vs the court of public opinion amongst PA fans.

Lol. Wow. Are you a QC?

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[Tim Evans Beard]

THis has been proven false over and over in this thread.

The fact you simply choose to ignore this, does not make your position any more tenable.

‘Proven’

 

[Ice-Wolf]

So who are Collingwood going to play against?

They'd probably try to create a 12 team National Football League reminiscent of the old VFL before they let in the interstate rabble ( ) so they'd need similar jumpers this is what I have so far:

Vic Teams
Collingwood - Collingwood
Fitzroy - Fitzroy

WA teams
Perth - Essendon
South Fremantle - South Melbourne
Subiaco - Hawthorn (eh close enough, bloody brown and gold)

SA teams
Glenelg - Richmond
Central Districts - Footscray

Tasmanian teams
Launceston - Carlton
North Hobart - Melbourne

Queensland teams
Morningside - St Kilda
Broadbeach - Geelong

Sydney team
??? - North Melbourne (maybe actually North Melbourne)

Obviously Perth and North Hobart would have to sort out who gets to be the Demons.

 

[mcgarnacle]

what legal case is there to be made when we say it wouldn't affect Collingwood's identity? Has there been proof of Melbournites accidentally purchasing Port memorabilia, mistaking it for Collingwood goods? How are the mighty gigantic Collingwood afraid of being mistaken for someone else wearing a completely different jumper design?

A Sydney Rugby League example, but my dad and I were rabid Newtown Jets fans back in the early 80s before they were punted like Fitzroy a decade or so later. In fact, the gentrification, similarities between the areas, and fate of the football teams of Newtown in Sydney, and Fitzroy in Melbourne are remarkable, but I digress.

Their strip was solid blue jersey with white trim, white shorts, solid blue socks white trim.



Canterbury were/are also blue and white, but a predominantly white jersey with blue V and yoke, blue shorts, and blue socks with white mid-height bands.


Which socks do you think my immigrant father purchased to complete my game-day kit when I was a 5 yo? Easy mistake to make.

Likewise, I would think some folks would be easily led a miss by the Port and Collingwood jerseys. Just about everything - jersey, shorts, socks, are practically the same.

At least Liverpool and Man Utd have a difference between with their shorts and socks. But Port are going for a strip that's virtually identical top to toe as Collingwood.

I've mentioned in the past that if Port were to ever manage to adopt the pylons as their main guernsey, it should be paired with white shorts at home - like they did in the home 2014 Elimination final vs Richmond. Goes well with the white number block




At least it would provide some sort of differentiation between the two match-day clubs like the two biggest rivals in the premier league.

Manchester United ----------- Liverpool


But it's moot. Port won't get what they want with the guernsey in the AFL, and considering their approach to this so far, would also put up a fight against white shorts too.

 

[AndyD]

So who are Collingwood going to play against?

Or do you think other clubs are going to take this massive risk out of protest about a guernsey debate they don't GAF about?

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A breach to the agreement that allows Collingwood to walk without penalty would presumably mean if one is out, all are out.

You are right that the other clubs wouldn’t be thrilled with the party that triggered that action, but you are mistaken if you think that anger would be directed towards Collingwood. It really isn’t much a stretch to think that if Port’s actions started to seriously threaten the existing licensing agreement that the other 17 clubs wouldn’t just vote them out and replace them with a Tasmanian team. The only major impediment to that would be any deal with Adelaide Oval concerning the amount of AFL games at the ground per season, but having to renegotiate one stadium deal would seem to be easier than having to renegotiate the agreement that keeps everyone together. This is not 1990 and the other 17 clubs (and certainly not Collingwood) aren’t reliant on a strong Port Adelaide to keep their league afloat and would be able to continue on very easily without them. The sooner Port fans accept this fact, the sooner they will come to terms with not wearing that jumper with any degree of regularity.


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[simba_]

mcgarnacle the thing is Collingwood and Port will never play each other in their home kits anyway, you never watch Port games on Victorian FTA TV anyway, there is no opportunity for confusion to begin with. when Man United play at home they never host a team coloured in red, no identity crisis. when Collingwood host Port, Port will wear silver or teal or something, no confusion. most casuals, most people in the world, do not not know Man Utd wear white shorts and black socks anyway, they won't know the intricacies of kit design, they just think "red and white" like they think the same for Arsenal, Southampton, Stoke and Liverpool, so no identity crisis. 5 red and white clubs exist in one league, no confusion, all these clubs excel and are 10x bigger than any AFL franchise. when Port play at home everyone will know who it is, when Collingwood play at home everyone knows who it is, when either team plays away to any other club you can see who they are.* the stories of someone accidentally buying the wrong kit are few and far between. worrying about your own brand identity and strengthening that, using rivalries within your league as leverage, is how those clubs got to the top, not worrying about someone else looking like you.

*[just realised the problem in that paragraph - Collingwood would have to find a genuine clash to come and play Port at Adelaide Oval. that is probably the true sticking point, in all honesty]

Another club wants to muddy the waters by also being a team with black n white stripes...but no impact?

this is just an inherently negative, fearful mentality. both clubs could excel beyond your imaginations if they worked on a peaceful solution. they could manufacture beef to do with who-wears-what-when and establish "battle of the black & white" matches, this is just one generic idea. 25 years ago they could've built on the supposed "gentlemens agreement" that was reneged on, that would've been NBA-style beef at board level between clubs that could've been milked like nothing you've seen in AFL. instead people are scared that the 100,000 member strong "Black And White Army" could come crumbling down to nothing if, what, Port wear their home jumper at home? lol

 

[BustedWing]

Plenty of the conversations with Port fans in here seem eerily similar.