Mega Thread Port Forum 'General AFL Talk' Thread Part 3

[philthy05]

I was just wondering as some Norf blokes reckon our salary cap is overflowing so we're ditching trengrove

That's a combination of wishful thinking and parroting media speculation from like 3 years ago now.

Funnily enough these teams boards that all parrot the line of ports cap bursting all seem to boast about a "war chest" of millions of dollars they are going to splash around. Apparently poorts powa cap bursting , but north saints pies and every other team somehow reckon they have a zillion dollar cap or some such shit. Usually it's reasoned on " we offered $1.4 million over 5 years to player x and didn't sign them , therefore for the next ten years I can make the claim we have $1.4 mil free in our cap !" **** knows how we let these people vote and make decisions for the betterment of others when they can put that special kind of logic together.

 

[Tibbs]

That's a combination of wishful thinking and parroting media speculation from like 3 years ago now.
...... **** knows how we let these people vote and make decisions for the betterment of others when they can put that special kind of logic together.

If intelligence were a prerequisite to vote, I somehow think you would have a very low voter turnout!

 

[Greasyrhys]

http://www.foxsports.com.au/afl/edd...utm_medium=Facebook&utm_campaign=FoxSportsAus

Seems Bucks is safe as his 'husband' Eddie has complete faith in him. I don't mind that as long as the 'Wobblers continue to play like crap for years to come!!!

 

[elpirate]

http://www.foxsports.com.au/afl/edd...utm_medium=Facebook&utm_campaign=FoxSportsAus

Seems Bucks is safe as his 'husband' Eddie has complete faith in him. I don't mind that as long as the 'Wobblers continue to play like crap for years to come!!!

If Bucks goes, so should Eddie.

He made the bed.

 

[scottjr]

Eddie did everything but say Voss will be coach of Collingwood next year.

 

[LFC2010]

http://www.foxsports.com.au/afl/edd...utm_medium=Facebook&utm_campaign=FoxSportsAus

Seems Bucks is safe as his 'husband' Eddie has complete faith in him. I don't mind that as long as the 'Wobblers continue to play like crap for years to come!!!

Collingwood could be 0-8 and Eddie would still back him to the hills.

 

[El_Scorcho]

Who said that they were obsolete? I think they are overrated.

GWS vs Port Adelaide (without Ryder):

View attachment 361667

GWS vs Adelaide:

View attachment 361668

Looks to me as if the midfield getting on top is more important than anything else.

Man this is a lot of pages ago, but why are the two mutually exclusive?

Shouldn't we get in top in the midfield AND position ourselves to win contests.

 

[Janus]

Man this is a lot of pages ago, but why are the two mutually exclusive?

Shouldn't we get in top in the midfield AND position ourselves to win contests.

They aren't. I've already said that we play Austin when he's ready. He's not ready. If you want to create another basketcase like O'Shea, play Austin when he doesn't deserve it to 'fast track' his development into a player who melts like butter when the pressure is on.

That's how teams like Carlton come into existence. They gift games to young players to pump them with 'experience', not realizing that the only experience they are getting is how to get flogged and not actually learning how to play. It's why GWS went out and got a whole bunch of older players after they built their initial list. You've got to have a standard that the younger players have to reach in order to get a game.

Tall and good > good > tall. That's the hierarchy we operate under.

 

[El Zorro]

Eddie did everything but say Voss will be coach of Collingwood next year.

How, when, where?

 

[Magus]

They aren't. I've already said that we play Austin when he's ready. He's not ready. If you want to create another basketcase like O'Shea, play Austin when he doesn't deserve it to 'fast track' his development into a player who melts like butter when the pressure is on.

That's how teams like Carlton come into existence. They gift games to young players to pump them with 'experience', not realizing that the only experience they are getting is how to get flogged and not actually learning how to play. It's why GWS went out and got a whole bunch of older players after they built their initial list. You've got to have a standard that the younger players have to reach in order to get a game.

Tall and good > good > tall. That's the hierarchy we operate under.

Austin is ready. He's already played AFL and performed well.

O'Shea had bigger problems than being played too early. We didn't ruin him, he wasn't good enough.

We aren't going to get flogged like Carlton - a team of kids. Redundant comment.

GWS were routinely flogged for a couple of years and it didn't hinder the development of their youngsters. You contradicted yourself.

 

[scottjr]

How, when, where?

https://amp.theage.com.au/afl/afl-n...cks-coach-nathan-buckley-20170426-gvsiqn.html

Collingwood president Eddie McGuire on Wednesday morning came out in passionate support of the embattled coach, who has come under mounting pressure as the Magpies continue to rack up the losses, including an 18-point Anzac Day defeat to Essendon on Monday. The Pies now sit 13th with a 1-4 record.

No coach is coming back from that.

 

[El_Scorcho]

They aren't. I've already said that we play Austin when he's ready. He's not ready. If you want to create another basketcase like O'Shea, play Austin when he doesn't deserve it to 'fast track' his development into a player who melts like butter when the pressure is on.

That's how teams like Carlton come into existence. They gift games to young players to pump them with 'experience', not realizing that the only experience they are getting is how to get flogged and not actually learning how to play. It's why GWS went out and got a whole bunch of older players after they built their initial list. You've got to have a standard that the younger players have to reach in order to get a game.

Tall and good > good > tall. That's the hierarchy we operate under.

This is all well and good but this isn't how he's been selected at all.

We were shit in 2016, but we were happy to throw Austin to the wolves and he performed really well. So the idea that we wouldn't throw him to the wolves when we suck is not how the coaches see it. The idea that he's not ready is also not how the vast, vast majority of the supporterbase would see it.

Then in 2017 we're actually a really good team and Austin has proven he can play good football at AFL level and then we don't play him despite him being the obvious inclusion when we lose a player in the same position.

So we've actually done it totally opposite to how you're suggesting we operate.

 

[tribey]

That's a combination of wishful thinking and parroting media speculation from like 3 years ago now.

Funnily enough these teams boards that all parrot the line of ports cap bursting all seem to boast about a "war chest" of millions of dollars they are going to splash around. Apparently poorts powa cap bursting , but north saints pies and every other team somehow reckon they have a zillion dollar cap or some such shit. Usually it's reasoned on " we offered $1.4 million over 5 years to player x and didn't sign them , therefore for the next ten years I can make the claim we have $1.4 mil free in our cap !" **** knows how we let these people vote and make decisions for the betterment of others when they can put that special kind of logic together.

When Schulz and Carlile retired - who we were paying in expired Australia's Choice The Decadent cookies btw - and Gus and White came off their existing FA deals, we went straight out and signed Atley and Eddy chiefly with rare jewels and unopened Star Wars figurines.

 

[Janus]

This is all well and good but this isn't how he's been selected at all.

We were shit in 2016, but we were happy to throw Austin to the wolves and he performed really well. So the idea that we wouldn't throw him to the wolves when we suck is not how the coaches see it. The idea that he's not ready is also not how the vast, vast majority of the supporterbase would see it.

Then in 2017 we're actually a really good team and Austin has proven he can play good football at AFL level and then we don't play him despite him being the obvious inclusion when we lose a player in the same position.

So we've actually done it totally opposite to how you're suggesting we operate.

Ah, no. I've gone through how we operate. It's happened every single time with young players.

1. Selection to get your first game is set to a standard that a player can reach if they apply themselves consistently and there is a spot available.

2. Once a player reaches that standard and gets a game, that becomes their 'baseline' because we expect them to improve beyond 'just getting a game'.

3. Player either continues to improve and perform (Byrne-Jones last year, Houston this year) or they plateau in their development (Austin). Players that plateau are sent back to the SANFL to work on their craft in league of lower standard until they reach the now higher, senior player level of standard set for them.

We're a really good team this year precisely because we're not having to play Austin, not in spite of not playing him. When he's ready to play the role required (and it might be later this year, who knows) he will improve us without negatively affecting any other areas of our game style.

 

[Tibbs]

Austin's form in the SANFL shows he is not ready yet. The same could be said for Johnston, but it's a little different for him. He knows that his game last week was to fill a hole for one week only. When the the injury is over he goes back to the Maggies. Austin must be selected when he is ready, and then he must stay on.

His time will come

 

[El_Scorcho]

Ah, no. I've gone through how we operate. It's happened every single time with young players.

1. Selection to get your first game is set to a standard that a player can reach if they apply themselves consistently and there is a spot available.

2. Once a player reaches that standard and gets a game, that becomes their 'baseline' because we expect them to improve beyond 'just getting a game'.

3. Player either continues to improve and perform (Byrne-Jones last year, Houston this year) or they plateau in their development (Austin). Players that plateau are sent back to the SANFL to work on their craft in league of lower standard until they reach the now higher, senior player level of standard set for them.

That simply hasn't applied across the board though. Plenty of developing players have been played through lapses in form because they were important structurally or gave us something unique.

Remember that Jake Neade is a 50 gamer at this club. That certainly wasn't through continuous improvement and performance and it wasn't through hitting a high baseline at any level.

Jasper Pittard improved in fits and starts and his continued selection was enormously controversial, but he was persisted with because the coaches could see his potential and thought he'd develop better at AFL level.

We're a really good team this year precisely because we're not having to play Austin, not in spite of not playing him. When he's ready to play the role required (and it might be later this year, who knows) he will improve us without negatively affecting any other areas of our game style.

No, we did have to play Austin. We left an obvious gaping hole in our tall defensive stocks and it was a big contributor to losing that game. While he was sitting in the stands, his teammates were getting destroyed by the exact players he could have come in and negated.

He was ready to play the role required last year, when he did so at an acceptable level for 11 straight games.

 

[Jason K]

Austin's form in the SANFL shows he is not ready yet. The same could be said for Johnston, but it's a little different for him. He knows that his game last week was to fill a hole for one week only. When the the injury is over he goes back to the Maggies. Austin must be selected when he is ready, and then he must stay on.

His time will come

I know there will be differing views by which supporters look for different strengths, but Austin was very solid on Saturday. Last week against Norwood, he was also quite good. He didn't play AFL early because his preseason was interupted and he needed more game fitness but I wouldn't hesitate to pick him now

 

[Hammer#8]

Can you really feel that sorry for Buckley though. He had every single advantage put in place for him as a coach to succeed.

He didn't inherit a basket case of a list, he inherited a team coming off a GF that lost 2 games total for the year. Not to mention the 2010 premiership side was one of the youngest ever.

He has managed to dismantle that side every year since he took it over. He could have kept the core of that squad intact (Sidebottom, Pendlebury, Reid) and build a next-of-kin flag squad around it like the Hawks did from its 2008 squad to its 2013 one.

Him getting Wells and Mayne suggests Buckley went for a full on flag tilt this year, and they're likely going to be 1-5 after this week.

 

[Lagooner]

 

[JimmyBeerCans]

View attachment 362982

Signed old man river Harvey's marching orders that play

 

[Powerade 08]

View attachment 362982

If Hipwood kicks 4 or more Janus needs to change his avatar to this.

 

[Janus]

That simply hasn't applied across the board though. Plenty of developing players have been played through lapses in form because they were important structurally or gave us something unique.

Remember that Jake Neade is a 50 gamer at this club. That certainly wasn't through continuous improvement and performance and it wasn't through hitting a high baseline at any level.

Jasper Pittard improved in fits and starts and his continued selection was enormously controversial, but he was persisted with because the coaches could see his potential and thought he'd develop better at AFL level.



No, we did have to play Austin. We left an obvious gaping hole in our tall defensive stocks and it was a big contributor to losing that game. While he was sitting in the stands, his teammates were getting destroyed by the exact players he could have come in and negated.

He was ready to play the role required last year, when he did so at an acceptable level for 11 straight games.

Getting destroyed? You should join Tribey in bed-wetting about Casboult kicking four goals.

Just watch and learn about team defence. Height is a bonus, but it's not required. The game is starting to mature tactically. By the end of the year, every single list manager is going to look at their list and realize that they need a whole bunch of new general defenders with attributes that their existing players don't have in order to compete in the new world...and we'll come over the top with our second round pick and get some real diamonds in the draft.

And then you'll be like 'Hmm, maybe Janus does know what he's talking about.'

 

[Janus]

If Hipwood kicks 4 or more Janus needs to change his avatar to this.

If Hipwood wins the game for Brisbane, I will.

I don't care about 4 goals from one player. Hell, he can kick 7 goals if he likes, so long as the other 21 players don't kick any. That's only 42 points after all.

 

[JimmyBeerCans]

I'm still struggling with how you blamed a 15 goal loss last year on the guy playing forward pocket.

 

[El_Scorcho]

Getting destroyed? You should join Tribey in bed-wetting about Casboult kicking four goals.

Just watch and learn about team defence. Height is a bonus, but it's not required. The game is starting to mature tactically. By the end of the year, every single list manager is going to look at their list and realize that they need a whole bunch of new general defenders with attributes that their existing players don't have in order to compete in the new world...and we'll come over the top with our second round pick and get some real diamonds in the draft.

And then you'll be like 'Hmm, maybe Janus does know what he's talking about.'

The GWS key forwards destroyed our defenders. Gave them an absolute bath.

You still need to win contests. Our good general defenders couldn't match the GWS bigs in the contest and they killed us.

If you think that's just a midfield issue, exhibit B will be the 2014 Essendon game.

You're right about defenders needing to have many strings to their bow. You're wrong about height being basically irrelevant.