Positives from Round 1 ?

[Mad Dog]

So - I'm trying not to be too negative about todays game.

Certainly the first ten minutes were fantastic - I thought how far the Crows....

We are definately trying to go a lot longer and direct than last year. While I'm not a big fan of the flood, it's not such a bad thing for the half forwards to come up to the centre of the ground when the ball is deep in our defense, especially for the room it creates in our forward line. We need to play to our strengths - and Welsh leading into space is definately 1.

Clarke looks like he will retain the # 1 ruck mantle this year - Hudson's non-reflex style concerns me - but on the positive side he is a good scrapper, and took some good marks.

The backline was pretty good today, especially the back 3 in Bass, Hart, and Truck, who has a very good closing speed on his opponent.

Stiffy and Reilly were pretty good - although Reilly went in and out of the game, he has great skills, and is going to be in the Johnson, Goody class IMO.

We fought pretty hard today - and tried to play more direct, but under pressure we went back to some bad habits - the 3rd qtr was a shocker... We just need to persist - but we pretty much lost to a top 6 side with nothing from Roo and Macca, with Goody sidelined.

Anything else today we can build on ??

 

[Nige_Bix]

I think if we can get Mattner to kick long more often, especially quickly, that will be a bonus - I started to get some positive anticipation when he kicked the ball forward. The opposite feeling to what you get when BB has it - not being negative, like BB - unlike quite a few on this board - and he tried really hard today.

The other positive could be that Macca and Roo might have played their bad game today and will get better in the upcoming weeks.

 

[Jimmy_the_Gent]

First of all a good match this afternoon, yeah it was scrappy but it was also exciting.

I think one of the main positives you guys could take away from the game is the fact that everyone played a hard, intense game for Neil Craig. I'd imagine if youse played like that every week you'd win more than you lose. Also I think the Adelaide players have responded well to Craig and that must be a good thing.

 

[F-U]

A positive would be the fact that even though Ricciuto and McCleod did nothing you still remained very competitive and were unlucky to lose. Another positive is a fit and firing Ben Hart. He makes a huge difference to your team. Also i thought the performances of Mattner and Shirley were great....

 

[- PC -]

Positives? There were heaps and yes while I am gutted i can see a light.

Ben Hart how good was that to see? I was waiting for the ping like everyone else, or to see him spend long periods on the bench. And did I see correctly he was not wearing any compression bandages?


Our direct movement into the forward line. Kick to a player long or kicked to a space forward of a player , making him run to it and then keep running.


Brett Burton got a lot of the ball , now its up to the coaching staff to help show him what to do with it.


We kicked poorly and lost by 11 points. Positive?" Of course it is, its a matter of skill adjustment.

And some of these names did a bit IMO. Bode was desperate, Skipworth was ok, Mattner great, Doughty was good as well and so was Shirley

Yes a lot of players were down and you wouldnt expect them to have 2 bad games in a row.

 

[outback jack]

no positives.......

but some astute outjack jack observations:
a shame that we dont win the close ones, still
we’re still competitive in the middle, despite roo and macca doing little
shirely still somehow does it on judd everytime
Rutten will struggle against the mobile FF's, not sure if he is our long term option
stevens did little, and forward line struggled esp late
welsh is good for a quarter and then goes missing
not sure why begley was even given a game considering how much time he spent on the pine, VB could have debuted

but after watching the port wizzer, the most pleasing aspect is the fact that we missed our goals from gettable angles, and not from the boundary. NC’s game plan is still a touch one dimensional going forward.

Good to see the flood in action as well, all the good teams do it. Just not every week, but I think that was a one off. Hope to see it in action when the occasion suites

Overall not a bad effort, but shut up shop way too early to expect to win.

 

[macca23]

no positives.......

but some astute outjack jack observations:
a shame that we dont win the close ones, still
we’re still competitive in the middle, despite roo and macca doing little
shirely still somehow does it on judd everytime
Rutten will struggle against the mobile FF's, not sure if he is our long term option
stevens did little, and forward line struggled esp late
welsh is good for a quarter and then goes missing
not sure why begley was even given a game considering how much time he spent on the pine, VB could have debuted

but after watching the port wizzer, the most pleasing aspect is the fact that we missed our goals from gettable angles, and not from the boundary. NC’s game plan is still a touch one dimensional going forward.

Good to see the flood in action as well, all the good teams do it. Just not every week, but I think that was a one off. Hope to see it in action when the occasion suites

Overall not a bad effort, but shut up shop way too early to expect to win.

Jack, overall, that was astute.

 

[relapse]

So - I'm trying not to be too negative about todays game.

Certainly the first ten minutes were fantastic - I thought how far the Crows....

We are definately trying to go a lot longer and direct than last year. While I'm not a big fan of the flood, it's not such a bad thing for the half forwards to come up to the centre of the ground when the ball is deep in our defense, especially for the room it creates in our forward line. We need to play to our strengths - and Welsh leading into space is definately 1.

Clarke looks like he will retain the # 1 ruck mantle this year - Hudson's non-reflex style concerns me - but on the positive side he is a good scrapper, and took some good marks.

The backline was pretty good today, especially the back 3 in Bass, Hart, and Truck, who has a very good closing speed on his opponent.

Stiffy and Reilly were pretty good - although Reilly went in and out of the game, he has great skills, and is going to be in the Johnson, Goody class IMO.

We fought pretty hard today - and tried to play more direct, but under pressure we went back to some bad habits - the 3rd qtr was a shocker... We just need to persist - but we pretty much lost to a top 6 side with nothing from Roo and Macca, with Goody sidelined.

Anything else today we can build on ??

I agree the opening looked fantastic, they got the ball quickly forward and welsh's quick pace was worrying early for the eagles.

After that things began to drop away, our skill level was poor and we missed many shots on goal that were easily kickable. We struggled to create anything forward of the centre square. There were many times when a player had the ball and there was just nothing to kick to.

Some positives were that our backline was okay and Mattner continually shows courage and never avoids a tough contest, I am slowly becoming a fan on his. Granted he makes mistakes, but he makes up for that with his tough endeavour for the ball.

I was disappointed with no van berlo or meesen in the side, IMO we wont make the finals so its a waste to play guys like Clarke. I know that Craig wants to try and milk as many wins as he can, but to me I would rather stick with Huddo and or Biglands and use a guy like Meesen to get his feet wet and not waste a spot in our team playing a guy who is playing his last season. As shown today I believe we will finish 10-13 regardless or whether Matthew Clarke plays or not so I dont see why they bother. I would rather spend a year playing our players for the future and finish 13th or so rather than possibly finish 10 playing guys that have no future because that wont be doing anything,

The problem with our side in my opinion is that we have far too many players that have question marks over them that are yet to prove their worth in the AFL. One or two in a side is okay, but when you have the quantity we have of those types of players that you hope year after year will make an impact and dont that is when you will struggle.

This year I want to see us using Maric, Meesen, Watts (again), Van Berlo etc and not waste game after game to see if guys like Ladhams and bode etc will finally make an impact. I would also like to see if Macca's poor form continues that we attempt to turn him into a Jeff Farmer type forward and give his midfield role to Scott Thompson or Brent Reilly as those two along with the stiffmeister are our future in the centre square.

 

[bigman]

Our first quarter - quick, long and direct.

The long kicking of Mattner in the first half. (But was he playiong on Kerr in the 3rd quarter. Can someone please tell me who was on kerr at this time?).

Doughtys use of the ball from defence in first half. But Mick where were you after half time.

Be Hart - a true champion.

Hudson - at last a ruckman who can take a mark. He still has a long way to go however.

Shirley - good effort on Judd. Burton tried so hard all day and acutallly used the ball well at times.

Stiffy down back - when is the last time he scored a goal from a set shot though.

Our weaknesses - decision making by many - Kenny, Burton, Perrie. Poor set shot kicking for goal - have we got anyone we can rely on. Poor skill areas at key times - Reilly in third quarter.

Is our fitness an issue or is the problem we cannot share the load as we have too many ordinary players? We need another two or three outright quality players a la Ben Hart.

No crumbing forward, and a lack of pace up forward. How mAny times was the ball repelled from our forward lines with ease after the pressure of the first quarter.

Disappointments - no intensity from Begley, when he came on. No wonder he went back on the pine. Injury to Burton. We looked like we could not step up a gear or change our game plan we it really counted.

Patience, i keep telling myself, patience.

 

[noddy]

Patience, i keep telling myself, patience.

Amen to that.

Positives.

Ben Hart is still Ben Hart (but for how much longer)
Shirley's job on Judd
More direct.
At least we have a backline to build upon.

 

[maccas_no1]

It's all about patience, but with time it will come, yeah we are all pretty frustrated atm, but hey we get two possibly three players back next week in Goodwin, Biglands and Thompson, Im dying to see Thommo and sounds like he had a really good game with Port Magpies on the w/e, sounds very promising. We have a real good oppurtunity to beat Collingwood this week, there ruck stocks are shot and they have a couple of other injuries to key players.

The players have to keep persisting with the long and direct gameplan, working and using each other, we tend to crowd each other alot, especially when we go into our forwardline.

Thought of the younger guys that Mattner, Reilly, Hentschel, Doughty and Rutten did well yesterday, it's these guys that need to stand up every week. Shirley did a fantastic job on Judd and shut him out of the game.

 

[Damp Squarie]

+++++++Moving it quickly from the middle to the forward lines.+++++++

With our imposing forwards...not...we need to keep doing this before our space is flooded. Did it well early but lost our way when west coast pressured us when we had the ball.

 

[mymansyd]

Thought of the younger guys that Mattner, Reilly, Hentschel, Doughty and Rutten did well yesterday, it's these guys that need to stand up every week. Shirley did a fantastic job on Judd and shut him out of the game.

Oh no, not again.....Doughty is 26 years of age, hardly a 'younger guy'. If so, then Welsh, Burton, Perrie & Bode should be dubbed 'younger guys' as well.

I think I am in the minority here, although Mad Dog has expressed similar views on this player. Shirley held Judd to 12 possessions, but only picked up 5 himself - and didn't lay a single tackle. Stenglein on the other hand kept McLeod down to 11, but still had 14 himself. Shirley needs to work on his offensive side and position himself better so that he can make the most of being around a ball magnet such as Judd. I don't care what anyone says, Shirley is not in our best-22, he is not an AFL standard player and the sooner we develop Van Berlo into a midfield tagger, the better. Harsh call, I know.

I'm just of the belief that you pick your best-22, and then decide on the day who the run-with players are gonna be.

 

[Markthirtytwo]

Thought of the younger guys that Mattner, Reilly, Hentschel, Doughty and Rutten did well yesterday, it's these guys that need to stand up every week. Shirley did a fantastic job on Judd and shut him out of the game.

MmmmmmYes I agree to some extent with some of them, but Hentschel is and will not be a forward IMO. Last year and the first game this year has convinced me that his future is in the back lines (where he took a couple of good ones, whereas he couldnt hold onto similar ones in the front half) or floating around the centre.

My best were Edwards, Benny Truck, Mattner and Birdman (who never left the ground until he went off in the last quarter). A very good game for the birdman.

Shirley was good but need to get the ball himself more often.

While not a fan of the flood and it did hold them up, I thought it left nothing to kick to ( too much space for those left to get the bloody thing.)

 

[Mad Dog]

Oh no, not again.....Doughty is 26 years of age, hardly a 'younger guy'. If so, then Welsh, Burton, Perrie & Bode should be dubbed 'younger guys' as well.

I think I am in the minority here, although Mad Dog has expressed similar views on this player. Shirley held Judd to 12 possessions, but only picked up 5 himself - and didn't lay a single tackle. Stenglein on the other hand kept McLeod down to 11, but still had 14 himself. Shirley needs to work on his offensive side and position himself better so that he can make the most of being around a ball magnet such as Judd. I don't care what anyone says, Shirley is not in our best-22, he is not an AFL standard player and the sooner we develop Van Berlo into a midfield tagger, the better. Harsh call, I know.

I'm just of the belief that you pick your best-22, and then decide on the day who the run-with players are gonna be.

Post of the day so far !

I don't know about The Count as a tagger - but our selection policy must be to play our best 22 - we just don't have the luxury of depth to go with a fringe hack who is a good spoiler.... Sure - if we were Brisbane or even the Paps - we would have enough good players in the 22 to afford playing a specialist tagger. Our side drops off at about #10....so IMO, 11 to 22 are vital selections - unlike a more accomplished side.
Mattner had 5 or so tackles yesterday and is in our best 22 IMO - he's the guy I would be turning into a tagger as his offensive side is more potent than Shirley's. Evidence of this was that Shirley showed once again yesterday that 35 to 40 metres is the limit of his kicking distance.

 

[maccas_no1]

While not a fan of the flood and it did hold them up, I thought it left nothing to kick to ( too much space for those left to get the bloody thing.)

Same as how Port got caught out a few time on Saturday night when Freo turned the ball over they had nobody to kick to, Im not a fan of the flood either I think it can be used for some of the game i.e when the game is tight and try and prevent the opposition from scoring, but if you base your whole game plan around it then nope thats just crap footy and ruins the 'spectical' that is Aussie Rules.

I tell ya the West Australian's really smaked the South Aussies this w/e

 

[crowie]

Positives? There were heaps and yes while I am gutted i can see a light.

Ben Hart how good was that to see? I was waiting for the ping like everyone else, or to see him spend long periods on the bench. And did I see correctly he was not wearing any compression bandages?


Our direct movement into the forward line. Kick to a player long or kicked to a space forward of a player , making him run to it and then keep running.


Brett Burton got a lot of the ball , now its up to the coaching staff to help show him what to do with it.


We kicked poorly and lost by 11 points. Positive?" Of course it is, its a matter of skill adjustment.

And some of these names did a bit IMO. Bode was desperate, Skipworth was ok, Mattner great, Doughty was good as well and so was Shirley

Yes a lot of players were down and you wouldnt expect them to have 2 bad games in a row.

We've been doing this for a lot longer then yesterday, we lost about 5 or 6 games last year because of our disgraceful kicking for goal.

We need that fella that has straightened up Tredrea, I can remember not having to worry about him kicking for goal with more than a 10 degree angle. Now he is one of the best shots for goal in the comp.

 

[Markthirtytwo]

We've been doing this for a lot longer then yesterday, we lost about 5 or 6 games last year because of our disgraceful kicking for goal.

We need that fella that has straightened up Tredrea, I can remember not having to worry about him kicking for goal with more than a 10 degree angle. Now he is one of the best shots for goal in the comp.

Exactly right. Hentschel was never going to kick that goal in the third qtr the way he approached his kick. Right behind it and did it ever remind me of the old Tredders.

 

[mymansyd]

We've been doing this for a lot longer then yesterday, we lost about 5 or 6 games last year because of our disgraceful kicking for goal.

We need that fella that has straightened up Tredrea, I can remember not having to worry about him kicking for goal with more than a 10 degree angle. Now he is one of the best shots for goal in the comp.

Our goalkicking is not good, but of more concern to me is that since the beginning of 2003 we have now only won 2 of 14 games decided by under 15 points. Do we run out of legs?, do we panic?, has the coaching staff let us down in tight matches? Are we last-minute chokers?

1-6 in 2003
1-5 in 2004
0-1 in 2005

Games decided by under 15 points ladder (since the begnning of 03)

Adelaide 2-12
Brisbane 6-8
Carlton 9-5
Collingwood 4-5
Essendon 4-3
Fremantle 8-3
Geelong 6-5
Hawks 8-8
Melbourne 5-6
Roos 7-9
Port 8-3
Richmond 3-6
St Kilda 5-2
Sydney 9-6
Bulldogs 2-6
West Coast 7-6

As you can see, no-one else comes close in terms of our ineptitude in close games.

 

[Markthirtytwo]

Our goalkicking is not good, but of more concern to me is that since the beginning of 2003 we have now only won 2 of 14 games decided by under 15 points. Do we run out of legs?, do we panic?, has the coaching staff let us down in tight matches? Are we last-minute chokers?

IMO it is only bad kicking for goal that continually lets us down. Dont know the stats but I bet we had far more kicks into our 50 than they did.

 

[relapse]

Oh no, not again.....Doughty is 26 years of age, hardly a 'younger guy'. If so, then Welsh, Burton, Perrie & Bode should be dubbed 'younger guys' as well.

I think I am in the minority here, although Mad Dog has expressed similar views on this player. Shirley held Judd to 12 possessions, but only picked up 5 himself - and didn't lay a single tackle. Stenglein on the other hand kept McLeod down to 11, but still had 14 himself. Shirley needs to work on his offensive side and position himself better so that he can make the most of being around a ball magnet such as Judd. I don't care what anyone says, Shirley is not in our best-22, he is not an AFL standard player and the sooner we develop Van Berlo into a midfield tagger, the better. Harsh call, I know.

I'm just of the belief that you pick your best-22, and then decide on the day who the run-with players are gonna be.

Couldnt agree more with you!! In my opinion if you are 26 years of age and are still trying to find your feet in the afl your not worth being on a list. Doughty isnt a young player and once you hit 24-28 you are in your prime and in 99 percent of cases playing the best possible football you can. You cant be 26 and hope that in a couple of years time he will develop into a good player it just wont happen.

Shirley is an alright tagger, but doesnt offer a lot. The modern day taggers are players that nulify their opponents, but do pickup possessions of their own Kane Cornes and Tyson Steglein are good examples of this and shirley is someone who plays because we dont have anyone else.

From my observations Doughty, Shirley, Perrie, Ladhams, Bode, Begley and Massie are lucky to be on afl lists and when you consider that some games all of those players could be playing in the crows side is there any surprise we play as badly as what we do. Those guys are all dead wood in my opinion and if they consistantly play them this season at the expense of some of our younger player this will not help the crows in the long term. Scott Stevens, Hayden Skipworth and Nathan Bock I didnt add because I still feel they have age on their side and should have this year to prove their worth.

Rucci was right in todays paper our squad is poor and the reality is that we arent a side capable of getting into the eight. We have a small group of good top tier of players a small group of the middle tier players (welsh, burton etc) and a large group of dead wood players and players on the boundary of becoming dead wood and a smallish group of good youngsters who should hopefully form the core of our side for the future (johncock, reilly, thompson, rutton, hentschel) and some promising younger players (Watts, Jericho, Meesen, Maric, Van Berlo). The problem is the amount of our squad that is dead wood is far too high to build a successful AFL team around.

Craig has to have that problem sorted out or beginning to sort out by the end of this season and a cleanout at the end of this season otherwise because playing guys that dont have much chance to improve game after game in an effort to try and milk as many wins as possible isnt going to sort out the long term issues of the club. We tried to focus too much on that premiership in 2003 and that has cost us dearly, I think our guts and determination in 2002 got us further than anything else and I think had people (including myself) led into a false sense of security in relation to the quality of our squad and the future and had us all believing that 2003 would be our year whereas in reality we most probably might not of had the squad to actually do it or at least make the grand final.

St Kilda have shown that if you have a good group of younger players the only way to make a side out of them is to play them. Yeah there might be a couple of seasons down the bottom, but they the team and the coach will reap the rewards down the track for the initial pain of a couple of poor seasons for the team.

Craig has come in on the premise of the long term future of the club, so hopefully there shouldnt be any attempt to play people to try and milk an extra win or two instead of offering opportunities to develop our younger players.

 

[crowie]

When WCE were giving us a points barrage in the lst qtr, It looked to me like we just wanted to stop WCE from scoring instead of trying to step up and score ourselves.

The game should have been wrapped up at half time, the second half should have been us putting the last 10-15 nails in the coffin.

We shouldn't be trying to defend 10-20 point leads.

 

[MarksGirl-kbcrowgirl]

Yesterday ended so disapointingly for me. I had high hopes for the season (as you do) and they started fantastically and finished horribly.

There was some positives though.

Ben Hart. Played a great game (other than his two diabolical errors). It was good to see the old Benny back to the kind of form we know and love. We missed him terribly last year and if he can stay fit it will be a huge bonus for us.

I thought Ben Hudson did well in ruck. I really think Rhett is going to be under a lot of pressure if he wants to play in the ruck for us. Perhaps there is a spot for him in our inept forward line.

There was a couple of FANTASTIC chases and tackles by Stiffy and Marty Mattner. I was very impressed with both of them.

Unfortunately once again McLeod had no impact at all. I am at my wits end with him I really am. I have no idea what is going on with him, but I wish that somebody would find out and do something about it. He is not the champ that he was that is for sure. I was also a little disapointed in Roo yesterday. We need these two to fire up.

k
xx

 

[mymansyd]

Couldnt agree more with you!! In my opinion if you are 26 years of age and are still trying to find your feet in the afl your not worth being on a list. Doughty isnt a young player and once you hit 24-28 you are in your prime and in 99 percent of cases playing the best possible football you can. You cant be 26 and hope that in a couple of years time he will develop into a good player it just wont happen.

Shirley is an alright tagger, but doesnt offer a lot. The modern day taggers are players that nulify their opponents, but do pickup possessions of their own Kane Cornes and Tyson Steglein are good examples of this and shirley is someone who plays because we dont have anyone else.

From my observations Doughty, Shirley, Perrie, Ladhams, Bode, Begley and Massie are lucky to be on afl lists and when you consider that some games all of those players could be playing in the crows side is there any surprise we play as badly as what we do. Those guys are all dead wood in my opinion and if they consistantly play them this season at the expense of some of our younger player this will not help the crows in the long term. Scott Stevens, Hayden Skipworth and Nathan Bock I didnt add because I still feel they have age on their side and should have this year to prove their worth.

Rucci was right in todays paper our squad is poor and the reality is that we arent a side capable of getting into the eight. We have a small group of good top tier of players a small group of the middle tier players (welsh, burton etc) and a large group of dead wood players and players on the boundary of becoming dead wood and a smallish group of good youngsters who should hopefully form the core of our side for the future (johncock, reilly, thompson, rutton, hentschel) and some promising younger players (Watts, Jericho, Meesen, Maric, Van Berlo). The problem is the amount of our squad that is dead wood is far too high to build a successful AFL team around.

Craig has to have that problem sorted out or beginning to sort out by the end of this season and a cleanout at the end of this season otherwise because playing guys that dont have much chance to improve game after game in an effort to try and milk as many wins as possible isnt going to sort out the long term issues of the club. We tried to focus too much on that premiership in 2003 and that has cost us dearly, I think our guts and determination in 2002 got us further than anything else and I think had people (including myself) led into a false sense of security in relation to the quality of our squad and the future and had us all believing that 2003 would be our year whereas in reality we most probably might not of had the squad to actually do it or at least make the grand final.

St Kilda have shown that if you have a good group of younger players the only way to make a side out of them is to play them. Yeah there might be a couple of seasons down the bottom, but they the team and the coach will reap the rewards down the track for the initial pain of a couple of poor seasons for the team.

Craig has come in on the premise of the long term future of the club, so hopefully there shouldnt be any attempt to play people to try and milk an extra win or two instead of offering opportunities to develop our younger players.

Excellent post.

It'll be interesting to see at what point during this season that we begin (hopefully, that is) to play our untried kids (meesen, van berlo, watts) ahead of all the on-the-road-to-nowhere fringies (shirley, doughty, skipworth).

Some important decisions need to be made during and at the completion of this season.

I'd rather lose games knowing we are working towards something rather than lose games with the same players, making the same mistakes.

 

[WaynesWorld19]

Our weaknesses - decision making by many - Kenny, Burton, Perrie. Poor set shot kicking for goal - have we got anyone we can rely on. Poor skill areas at key times - Reilly in third quarter.

Your kidding me if your referring to Reilleys shot for goal that hit the post.

Every player misses at that end to the left side, place to aim is to the right, Reilly appeared to aim for the right goal post believing the wind would bring it back, it didn't - how is that poor skill !!!!

Reilly regularly hit his targets for most of the day, he's probably one of the higher skilled players?