Autopsy Post Mortem vs Essendon

[Kilmo]

Reid actually looked pretty good in the forward line from where I was sitting. We just didn't kick it to him. He should have been there the whole game.

 

[loki04]

Yeah, sorry I'm just not prepared to play an AA CHB as a forward decoy on the chance it might improve another forwards output. If he's going forward I'd want and expect him to be the number 1 forward. After an interrupted pre-season he's only just starting to find form in defense so not sure why we should assume he's ready to be the number 1 forward.

And I'm not omitting anything, I was responding to your suggestion that Reid play forward. If you'd asked, I would have said Reid had a relatively poor 4 quarter game, even by 2017 standards, and had little impact irrespective of playing either forward or back.

Irrespective of the views of them, Blair and Mayne are seasoned senior players, Crocker and Daicos aren't.

He would be the number 1 fwd and was hence why they had 2/3 players constantly go against him. He needs to start the game forward and work into it not throw him down there when the game is all but shot.

Also he was playing poorly vs Hooker who was using your 2012 AA CHB running him away from the play as a decoy target, essendon were going to where Reid was not. Hooker even ran him up onto the Essendon HB line at times.

You are using a game in the wet where he spent the last 5 mins of 3rd quarter (which he did in fact impact on, we scored two goals from spillages he created) and then 20 mins of the 4th to rule a line through him.

By which time he had been ran into the ground vs Hooker.

On top of this there was no replacement player to fill Reids position as Cox came in instead of Dunn so basically we moved him forward without having a player capable to fill his role on the day.

The defence would hold up equally with Dunn in as a replacement.

Give him 3-4 games forward if after that he is still going goal less and the fwd line is still a mess then we know we can put it to bed either way.

 

[loki04]

Reid actually looked pretty good in the forward line from where I was sitting. We just didn't kick it to him. He should have been there the whole game.

So many ignored leads that were even visible on the tv screen.

It needs time to build connection from the mids and his other forwards. Not 1 quarter in the wet where the bombers had the run of play for the majority of time.

 

[Collingwoodity]

Just because people want to brag that they were right about Buckley, (personally I think dancing on Buckley's grave is sick and disrespectful) doesn't mean those who showed faith and supported Buckley were wrong. While it hasn't worked there were enough signs there to show that it might. Footy is a game of inches, of what ifs and every year more sides fail than those who win/advance yet we don't see 10+ coaches sacked each year. Whether Buckley haters like it or not continued investment and faith from any club's board in their coaches, officials and players is essential and part of footy. It's just a matter of how much faith clubs are prepared to invest before pulling the cord; with Collingwood under Buckley teasing of more and an absence of a player revolt (see WB/McCartney, Bris/Voss) suggesting an overall player buy in I think we got the balance pretty right albeit maybe we went 1 year too long.

This is hypocritical. I am not dancing on Buckley's grave. I love Buckley. Putting anyone down for pointing out facts by masquerading them as "Buckley Haters" is poor form. It is just as destructive as the comments supporting Buckley's game plan when it doesn't work. Yes, you were wrong. Buckley's game plan was wrong and the recruiting and drafting (whether that is all or part Buckley) has been hit and miss. Kudos should go to those who were right and shouted down years ago in light of the support of "teasing and hope".

 

[Vankri]

Our worst game so far this year. At least we were moving the ball well in parts of the first four rounds and even though we weren't converting our entries to goal we looked dangerous. Yesterday I don't think we threatened to win the game at any point, we only had one minute when we were in front and even though we again won the I50 count, the way we move the ball to get those inside 50s left a lot to be desired.

I just go back to our structures and I'm getting more and more frustrated at the lack of adjustment to them as each round passes. Something isn't working and to me it's due to our lack of spread and stretching of the ground length-wise. We're not too bad at switching left to right but we are definitely bad at creating space for ourselves when it's our turn to go on the attack.

To me we play too tight and too close to each other. Similarly to the Dogs we bring numbers to the ball, hope to intercept mark and rebound quickly but we don't have the Dogs leg speed and ability below the knees. As a result of our good midfield and the extra numbers we push there we end up winning the ball but we then don't have good clean options to go to forward. This year we are #3 in the league for clearance differentials, #4 in scoring from clearances, and #5 in generating I50s, but second last in I50 conversion to goal.

Overall we are too one dimensional in the way we look to score goals. It's either from a clearance or from locking the ball in the opposition D50 by pressing forward and getting a stoppage which then becomes very congested. We need to start treating our forward line as a proper forward line and allow them to create space and lead to the ball. I would love to see us get the easy goals we allow our opposition to score. The reason we don't get them is that there is very rarely an easy free man in our forward line or an 'obvious' option to go to. We rarely outnumber our opposition in our forward half because we overcommit to the contest.

I would love to see us stretch the ground more in the next game. Back our midfield to win their one on ones and to continue winning clearances without sending our half forward to every stoppage and try to create more space between our lines. I really think we'll see improvement from doing this.

What is even more frustrating is that we are so strict with our game plan but the opposite when it comes to moving players out of position... Why would Adams, our most in form mid based on the previous two rounds, our best inside mid and our best player in the wet, spend 90% of the game in the forward line? He doesn't even kick the ball well so he's the last I'd want when we're struggling so much to kick straight. Huge missed opportunity to dominate there. And why are we moving Reid forward in the last 10min of the game when he hasn't played there all season and pre-season and it doesn't make sense to have him forward if Moore, Cox and Grundy are in the team.

On the positives, Elliott and Wells had brilliant games and showed the class they bring to our line up. Howe continues his form and is now clearly our best player so far this season, Treloar proved the doubters wrong and Crisp played his best game for the year.

 

[mike123]

Similarly to the Dogs we bring numbers to the ball, hope to intercept mark and rebound quickly but we don't have the Dogs leg speed and ability below the knees.

This, I remember last year Bucks saying we want to play like the Dogs but it wasn't going to work because of our lack of leg speed.

 

[PonsfordMagpie]

If Malthouse can get spuds like Paddy Stineford to play well.. and Buckley can't get the best rated midfield in the league to fire when it should be as easy as coaching with your eyes closed.. then reminisce for your final week at the westpac centre.

Who on earth is Paddy Stineford? Do you mean Pat Steinfort who was on Richmond's list in the 90s?

Or do you mean Carl Steinfort?

Going forward I'm not even sure what the solution is. Personally, I'll still be attending every game in Melbourne since I've already paid for my membership, there's no point skipping them now.

Same here.

I always enjoy attending matches and catching up with mates, but this year will be a tough one for us and in a way character building for future years.

I thought that Buckley should have been moved on last year, that is true. Once the decision was made by the club to allow him to coach out this year then I supported him, in the hope that with a decent injury run he could turn things around. I don't think that is contradictory behaviour. I have maintained all along that we must make finals this year for Buckley to be re-signed. Thats looking unlikely now.

This was also my attitude toward Bucks and the coaching staff heading into this season.

I had strong doubts and issues with the way we were progressing under him last year, especially in the first half of the year with bad losses to Sydney, St.Kilda, Carlton and Port Adelaide.

We picked up a little bit in the second half of the year, which was enough to sway the board and others to keep him on for 2017 with the hope that the downward trajectory would finally end and things would begin to click after three years out of the finals.

I don't see the point in calling for his head after every loss. His contract hasn't been renewed beyond 2017 and every loss will continue to pile on the pressure on him and make it less likely that he will coach us in 2018. I'm not sure whether he will see it out the year, so time will tell in that regard, but I'm quite confident he won't coach us in 2018.

He will need a miracle to turn things around, and the evidence before me suggests that it won't happen unfortunately. He was my favourite player as a young child and the best player I've seen wear the black and white, but you can't let sentimentality rule over logic and objectivity. It's part of the reason why we're in this rut to begin with.

I sense that a fresh start is needed in all facets of the club, not just at a coaching level. We've hit a roadblock now and the board can no longer shirk its responsibilities in making the hard calls for the betterment of the club.

 

[BringouttheGimp]

Who on earth is Paddy Stineford? Do you mean Pat Steinfort who was on Richmond in the 90s?

Or do you mean Carl Steinfort?


Same here.

I always enjoy attending matches and catching up with mates, but this year will be a tough one for us and in a way character building for future years.


This was also my attitude toward Bucks and the coaching staff heading into this season.

I had strong doubts and issues with the way we were progressing under him last year, especially in the first half of the year with bad losses to Sydney, St.Kilda, Carlton and Port Adelaide.

We picked up a little bit in the second half of the year, which was enough to sway the board and others to keep him on for 2017 with the hope that the downward trajectory would finally end and things would begin to click after three years out of the finals.

I don't see the point in calling for his head after every loss. His contract hasn't been renewed beyond 2017 and every loss will continue to pile on the pressure on him and make it less likely that he will coach us in 2018. I'm not sure whether he will see it out the year, so time will tell in that regard, but I'm quite confident he won't coach us in 2018.

He will need a miracle to turn things around, and the evidence before me suggests that it won't happen unfortunately. He was my favourite player as a young child and the best player I've seen wear the black and white, but you can't let sentimentality rule over logic and objectivity. It's part of the reason why we're in this rut to begin with.

I sense that a fresh start is needed in all facets of the club, not just at a coaching level. We've hit a roadblock now and the board can no longer shirk its responsibilities in making the hard calls for the betterment of the club.

That's how much I remember him.. Carl Steinfort.

 

[barrackers]

This is hypocritical. I am not dancing on Buckley's grave. I love Buckley. Putting anyone down for pointing out facts by masquerading them as "Buckley Haters" is poor form. It is just as destructive as the comments supporting Buckley's game plan when it doesn't work. Yes, you were wrong. Buckley's game plan was wrong and the recruiting and drafting (whether that is all or part Buckley) has been hit and miss. Kudos should go to those who were right and shouted down years ago in light of the support of "teasing and hope".

The term Buckley hater has nothing to do with Buckley as a person or player rather it's in regards to his coaching, which given that was the topic of discussion shouldn't need explanation. The term is not intended to be degrading either; there's a clear divide between those who like Buckley the coach and those who don't and generally speaking many of those who don't have been very strong in this regard. The number of threads on Buckley's coaching is testament to the strong position adopted by many. Hate is defined as "an intense dislike", which given the strong position of many against Buckley's coaching is therefore an apt term. It's a very sad indictment where a position of supporting the club and having faith and hope in the potential of our pathway is seen as wrong and it's a statement I strongly disagree with.

 

[jmac70]

It says we're generating some quality F50 entry, just not taking those chances.

What about the easy goals we are giving up on the counter attack?

 

[Helfarch]

What about the easy goals we are giving up on the counter attack?

Game is up for grabs, watch the slow trot towards kind of where they should be in def...oh wait they switched already and goaled.

 

[jackcass]

some of those extra F50's may be because we get so few shots on goal from I50's so the ball is bounced right out again and then fed in again and bounced again - lots of useless I50's. If you have much higher scoring efficiency from I50's , the scores starve the I50 count.

Yep, not disputing that we get a fair share of re-entry but I'd happily trade a few of those for a few goals. We're lacking Cloke contested F50 marking now so we just need to work out how we offset his absence. I think when the forward line gains greater cohesion we'll see quicker ball movement and better blocking of defenders that'll give the forwards a clearer run at the footy. Hopefully that emerges sooner than later.

 

[jackcass]

Reid is a fragile player and it might be dangerous to play him a lot as a forward - both for the physical beating he would get from defenders and the much less straight ahead running patterns which tend to challenge hammys knees etc.

I'm not concerned about his "fragile body", rather his lack of form. I think they've worked through his injury issues and he's easily our best KPF. Just think he's struggling to find his best form and he'll do that quicker playing KPD.

 

[Collingwoodity]

The term Buckley hater has nothing to do with Buckley as a person or player rather it's in regards to his coaching, which given that was the topic of discussion shouldn't need explanation. The term is not intended to be degrading either; there's a clear divide between those who like Buckley the coach and those who don't and generally speaking many of those who don't have been very strong in this regard. The number of threads on Buckley's coaching is testament to the strong position adopted by many. Hate is defined as "an intense dislike", which given the strong position of many against Buckley's coaching is therefore an apt term. It's a very sad indictment where a position of supporting the club and having faith and hope in the potential of our pathway is seen as wrong and it's a statement I strongly disagree with.

Why are you playing the victim?

You are part of the problem. You are supporting a regime which has failed. It has been proven to fail under all metrics over a number of years.

I consider your blind support of the club based on "teasing" gameplay over 5 years as wrong. Instead of analysing the problem and coming up with a solution, you are abetting the problem.

 

[jackcass]

What about the easy goals we are giving up on the counter attack?

As I've said elsewhere. Kick goals and you don't get those out the back goals. Hit targets and you don't get those out the back goals. Move the ball quickly and you don't get those out the back goals. Improve midfield 2-way work rate and you don't get those out the back goals.

 

[obleex]

As I've said elsewhere. Kick goals and you don't get those out the back goals. Hit targets and you don't get those out the back goals. Move the ball quickly and you don't get those out the back goals.

Is it not the coaches responsibility to ensure his players are kicking those goals, hitting those targets and moving the ball quickly?

This sort of apologetic attitude will get us nowhere fast.

 

[jackcass]

Is it not the coaches responsibility to ensure his players are kicking those goals, hitting those targets and moving the ball quickly?

This sort of apologetic attitude will get us nowhere fast.

As answered elsewhere in the thread.

 

[Raveneyes]

yup, that's my other team, West Ham and Collingwood....

Ouch.

Sorry mate.



Start following the Storm and Victory for some relief!

 

[jmac70]

As I've said elsewhere. Kick goals and you don't get those out the back goals. Hit targets and you don't get those out the back goals. Move the ball quickly and you don't get those out the back goals. Improve midfield 2-way work rate and you don't get those out the back goals.

We just don't have the skill level required to execute the current game plan. It's not working and needs to be changed.

 

[Jasper84]

Why are you playing the victim?

You are part of the problem. You are supporting a regime which has failed. It has been proven to fail under all metrics over a number of years.

I consider your blind support of the club based on "teasing" gameplay over 5 years as wrong. Instead of analysing the problem and coming up with a solution, you are abetting the problem.

If Barrackers was abetting the problem, what has your input as a naysayer done to amend it? What's worse? Believing and supporting a club that you love thinking that they are going to turn it around or knowing in your heart that it's going to be a failure and doing absolutely nothing about it other than criticising the supporters when it falls down? The reality is that the fans and the detractors are two sides to the same coin which is being flipped by a higher power. Neither are the problem or solution. This wasn't a US election style situation where the public had a say on the outcome.

 

[MarkT2]

Disagree with the ordinary list comment. There are many talented young players, and most of our older players have talent also.
There are horrible mistakes being made during matches that, I would suggest, are down to poorly drilled routines and a lack of appropriate skill development. Do our coaches just assume that, because our players have reached this level, they should have the knowledge and be responsible enough to implement basic skills? (Lead your opponent to the ball, impact the contest if you leave your opponent to help out, do not all fly for the mark, pick a target behind the goals and aim for it when shooting, where to stand when defending a ball up in the opposition forward 50 etc, etc). Because, if our coaches ASSUME that the players, even the experienced players, don't need that coaching ... then we had better find some more effective coaches - quickly.

We lack pace, skill and football nouse. It's an ordinary list.

 

[Sunbot]

We just don't have the skill level required to execute the current game plan. It's not working and needs to be changed.

Agreed. The next question is: to what?

 

[good4footy]

We lack pace, skill and football nouse. It's an ordinary list.

It is the bolded that kills us and why I shake my head at our coaching department. The same players, making the same wrong decisions, in the same part of the ground for 3 years now. You can just as easily replace 'player' in the above with the word 'coaches' and it would be just as relevant.

 

[Pedro]

I also know from one of the players that they get it and are going with it they just don't think it's all that effective.

It's like trying to prove a negative it can't be done and relies on your buy in to understand what is wrong...

FWIW I'm quite confident the coach hasn't lost the group. He just needs to develop a functioning game plan and they'll buy in. It's probably the one element allowing him to cling to the role.

The way they play reeks of this imo. Its one thing to understand it, and even go with it, but if you don't 100% think it works, then its just never going to be effective. Its human nature to go through the motions when you're not convinced of what you're doing will work.

 

[MarkT2]

It is the bolded that kills us and why I shake my head at our coaching department. The same players, making the same wrong decisions, in the same part of the ground for 3 years now. You can just as easily replace 'player' in the above with the word 'coaches' and it would be just as relevant.

To be frank, I don't rate the list or the coaches.