Potential list changes for 2011

[Catlad]

Re: List changes for 2011

As we all know our baldin buddha Gaz is gone (weeps a little) but is there a chance that, as GC Suns (LOL) will be participating in Trade week, he could do the Juddy and ask for decent compensation ala p3, josh Kennedy and another pick in the draft(?) instead of allowing himself to be delisted and picked up for practically nothing

I thought David Swallow (or the draft pick that will secure him) along with the pick after our first

 

[tenderwarrior]

Re: List changes for 2011

The idea of Ablett being traded to GC Suns rather than just walking away is a very tantalizing thought, and if he did that I would be almost happy to see him go.

Imagine us getting 2 top 10 selections and one of GC Suns young guns for Ablett.

Not only does it give us great young talent to keep the window open, it also gives us more $$$ to keep the players we have already got.

Wishful thinking, but no reason it can't happen.

Unless Ablett has already signed

 

[LifeSpan-Void]

Re: List changes for 2011

Can't put a line through Rooke for 2011 just yet, he's just announced on k-rock that he intends to keep playing next year after a generally positive experience in the USA.

 

[Pure_Ownage]

Re: List changes for 2011

As we all know our baldin buddha Gaz is gone (weeps a little) but is there a chance that, as GC Suns (LOL) will be participating in Trade week, he could do the Juddy and ask for decent compensation ala p3, josh Kennedy and another pick in the draft(?) instead of allowing himself to be delisted and picked up for practically nothing

I thought David Swallow (or the draft pick that will secure him) along with the pick after our first

Nup.

If Ablett's going to go, he'll walk.

He has no reason, and nothing to gain, from getting involved in some argy bargy over a trade deal.

So we'll get whatever Vlad gives us and that's it.

 

[Turbocat]

Re: List changes for 2011

As we all know our baldin buddha Gaz is gone (weeps a little) but is there a chance that, as GC Suns (LOL) will be participating in Trade week, he could do the Juddy and ask for decent compensation ala p3, josh Kennedy and another pick in the draft(?) instead of allowing himself to be delisted and picked up for practically nothing

I thought David Swallow (or the draft pick that will secure him) along with the pick after our first

In actual fact Im not sure Judd did exactly that. I think Richmond finished bottom and they had the first pick in the Pre-Season draft so if Judd wanted Carlton a deal had to be done for him to get there.

There is no chance at all that this will occur for GA. If Ablett goes , he will go because of the huge offer he has received. Would he be worth as much if tried to pressure GC to give up picks/players, I doubt it. The GC give nothing , we will receive 2 picks from the AFL and thats all we are going to get.

We have to remember that very soon, this situation will be occurring far more often thru Free Agency. From 2012 , for 75% of players that have been on our list for 8 years will be able to walk for a nominal AFL determined compensation. For elite player like Ablett it will be 10 years but the thought of players going for "bugger all" is something we will have to get used to.

 

[The rabbi]

Re: List changes for 2011

Nup.

If Ablett's going to go, he'll walk.

He has no reason, and nothing to gain, from getting involved in some argy bargy over a trade deal.

So we'll get whatever Vlad gives us and that's it.

The word in bold is the only point of disagreement that I have with this post.

 

[Belisarius]

Re: List changes for 2011

Nup.

If Ablett's going to go, he'll walk.

He has no reason, and nothing to gain, from getting involved in some argy bargy over a trade deal.

So we'll get whatever Vlad gives us and that's it.

Well yes PO he might well just do what you say. However why would he not, as an acknowledgment of the club that did pick him, develop him and pay him well (and provide 2 Premiership medals to in his stint thus far), want to do something that would, like Judd did for WC, show his gratitude fora ll those who have supported him at GFC ?????

If they want him that bad he could make a good deal for us - and everybody wins then. they get Ablett and we get appropriately compensated as we should for losing the most valuable player in the game - and a name synonymous with Geelong. A once in a generation player.

Of course he should do this and anyone with a heart, and has respect for the GFC and its fans, would do this if they had it in their power. And I think he has - as Judd has shown in the past.

 

[Pure_Ownage]

Re: List changes for 2011

Well yes PO he might well just do what you say. However why would he not, as an acknowledgment of the club that did pick him, develop him and pay him well (and provide 2 Premiership medals to in his stint thus far), want to do something that would, like Judd did for WC, show his gratitude fora ll those who have supported him at GFC ?????

If they want him that bad he could make a good deal for us - and everybody wins then. they get Ablett and we get appropriately compensated as we should for losing the most valuable player in the game - and a name synonymous with Geelong. A once in a generation player.

Of course he should do this and anyone with a heart, and has respect for the GFC and its fans, would do this if they had it in their power. And I think he has - as Judd has shown in the past.

I think you're missing one critical point and that is that Judd didn't 'do a deal' out of gratitude for his club, even if he felt that way towards them, he did it because he wanted to go to Carlton, and the only way he could get there was by doing a deal. This scenario doesn't have that because GC have the first picks in every draft. Hence Ablett gains nothing from trying to force a trade, whereas it was different for Judd. In fact all Gazza gets is p' ing off his new employer, and I can't see why he'd choose to do that. Don't get me wrong, I hope he does what you're saying because I'd like us to get better compensation, I just don't see it happening.

 

[vinum coupe]

Re: List changes for 2011

I think you're missing one critical point and that is that Judd didn't 'do a deal' out of gratitude for his club, even if he felt that way towards them, he did it because he wanted to go to Carlton, and the only way he could get there was by doing a deal. This scenario doesn't have that because GC have the first picks in every draft. Hence Ablett gains nothing from trying to force a trade, whereas it was different for Judd. In fact all Gazza gets is p' ing off his new employer, and I can't see why he'd choose to do that. Don't get me wrong, I hope he does what you're saying because I'd like us to get better compensation, I just don't see it happening.

Correct. If you have decided to go why would you risk screwing it all up?

 

[Belisarius]

Re: List changes for 2011

I think you're missing one critical point and that is that Judd didn't 'do a deal' out of gratitude for his club, even if he felt that way towards them, he did it because he wanted to go to Carlton, and the only way he could get there was by doing a deal. This scenario doesn't have that because GC have the first picks in every draft. Hence Ablett gains nothing from trying to force a trade, whereas it was different for Judd. In fact all Gazza gets is p' ing off his new employer, and I can't see why he'd choose to do that. Don't get me wrong, I hope he does what you're saying because I'd like us to get better compensation, I just don't see it happening.

Fair enough point - but he still has the power to have some say in what happens re compensation for his departure. He may not use it as you point out but he could - even if does not suit his personal situation. He could put GFC near the top of his agenda - if he really wanted however - and this would I think be understood by GC -and Ablett would at least be respected by GFC fans for doing so.

I think he is big enough to think of more than himself entirely in this matter. That's all. It would show that he appreciated the support, the money and the opportunity GFC gave him - even though he was a father and son pick. Just an acknowledgment that GFC and its fans also deserve some thought in this matter.

 

[noclashjumpers]

Re: List changes for 2011

Not sure he could hold on anyway (2 years +) but anyone think Djerkurra could be moulded as a tagger post Lingy? Has a certain hardness about him?

In the few games he's played in the last couple of years, I've been staggered by his lack of awareness and poor decision making. Getting run down; calling for the ball when he's completely surrounded, and then getting dumped.

Not sure he could adapt to tagging when he has difficulty assessing what's going on around him.

He's had a while to improve in these areas with little success. Shame for the guy, but I fear his time may be up.

 

[Pure_Ownage]

Re: List changes for 2011

Would be interesting to know if any of the fringe players have contracts for next year (obviously everyone we drafted at the end of last year does, but I mean older players than that). Our salary cap will prohibit us from delisting anyone with a contract, so if any are fortunate enough to be in that situation, they're safe.

 

[Varcoe2Chapman]

Re: List changes for 2011

When i saw the VFL team the other week it was exciting to see some of the young players coming through.

I like the look of Christensen. Reads the ball so well and loves a goal.
Duncan will be a star, same as Menzel.

What is the word on Tom Gilles? I don't hear much about his these days and is rarely in our emergencies. Is he coming along well?

 

[Claude Balls]

Re: List changes for 2011

I think that Duncan, Menzel and Brown (When he gets over his bad run of injuries) are dead certs to be senior players in the not too distant future.

What's the status of Brown's latest injury (shoulder)? I heard some vague reports at the time that it was a dislocation, or some other season-ending thing, but never really heard anything further...

 

[Belisarius]

Re: List changes for 2011

I wish there was a show on TV about the VFL - not just TAC Stars (though it does do a good job).

I do not see the reserves games often and really I only get to see the summary of their games (best players and goal scorers) on the Cats website and what is presented here.

It is especially important at these times when recruiting will become even more difficult - to see so who is coming thru - what players are making progress in the twos is even more consequential than in the past.

I like what I hear about Christensen - and some writers on this site - were very happy that we drafted him last year. My question is for those who have seen the reserves - is he making progress consistent for those who liked the 'cut of his jib' ?

Secondly - I have seen a bit more of Duncan - and for a first year player he looks good to me. How has his form been in the twos ? Good in patches - that show he has real promise with a few pre-seasons and some more experience in the ones ? That is how it seems to me from afar.

I keep seeing Menzel's name in the goal kickers each week - but I thought he was more of a HBF ? Seems like he has a knack of getting a goal but not often in the bests ? But some here reckon he has shown enough promise to be close behind Duncan as a player who could really make it.

Mitch Brown now seems like he will be another Gumbleton - we will have to wait quite a while to get him physically right and to get enough game time up before he show us his wares and can be considered for selection.

Gillies had big wraps from many on this Board but he seems to have stagnated - and this is true to a lesser extent of Laidler, who has less wraps on him.

Motlop and Drum have been injured - so hard to assess their potential. I would hope that Drum has a better season next year and can show us a lot more (especially as he was a first round draft pick). Varcoe Jnr. has also had injury concerns.

After some promising signs Big Dawson Simpson seems to have plateaued - and West - who is way off from being a good senior second ruckman (taking over from Blake) - has a way to go and I am not convinced will make it.

Some have mentioned Vardy as a possible player - but I have seen him once.

I would appreciate then a few of you more knowledgeable Cat fans to make up a list of ranking our best 'seconds' players in order of their likely success.

For example -
1. Mitch Duncan
2. Menzel
3. Mitch Brown - etc.

Just want to get a bit better idea of how the punters out there think our list looks really in respect to potential first graders or players who might come thru and be genuine replacements for some of our aging good players and stars.

 

[Pure_Ownage]

Re: List changes for 2011

What's the status of Brown's latest injury (shoulder)? I heard some vague reports at the time that it was a dislocation, or some other season-ending thing, but never really heard anything further...

I could be wrong but I heard Balme say he had gone if for surgery and end of season. I'm pretty sure it's not a reconstruction though so it's not as bad as it could be.

When i saw the VFL team the other week it was exciting to see some of the young players coming through.

I like the look of Christensen. Reads the ball so well and loves a goal.
Duncan will be a star, same as Menzel.

What is the word on Tom Gilles? I don't hear much about his these days and is rarely in our emergencies. Is he coming along well?

Gillies has been ok, not as outstanding as last year, but serviceable, and it's tough playing full back in an undersized defence in a team that's usually getting beaten. I still think he'll make it for sure.

 

[thejester]

Re: List changes for 2011

I like what I hear about Christensen - and some writers on this site - were very happy that we drafted him last year. My question is for those who have seen the reserves - is he making progress consistent for those who liked the 'cut of his jib' ?

For a first year player I think he's doing fine. Our midfield at VFL level last year was very ordinary but he's getting shifts there ahead of more established players. I guess the problem is that the knock on him - his size - can't ever really get answered until he gets a crack at AFL level.

I keep seeing Menzel's name in the goal kickers each week - but I thought he was more of a HBF ? Seems like he has a knack of getting a goal but not often in the bests ? But some here reckon he has shown enough promise to be close behind Duncan as a player who could really make it.

It's not unusual at U18s level for coaches to shift natural midfielders onto the flanks - Jack Ziebell comes to mind as one who spent a lot of his carnival down back so that other players could show their wares. Menzel's kicking efficiency also obviously lent itself to driving out of defence. But he's been playing forward in the VFL; maybe not the position to really exert and influence every week but has got the class to finish. I reckon he'll be a gem, if he gets a full pre-season should be challenging for a senior spot in 2011.

Gillies had big wraps from many on this Board but he seems to have stagnated - and this is true to a lesser extent of Laidler, who has less wraps on him.

As PO says, both have been playing in a badly undermanned defence in a team that is getting beaten - and that has a nasty habit of overusing the ball in transition and turning it over as a result. Laidler in particular has been playing CHB, which is just to big an ask for a guy of his size. Gillies has been alright in the games I've seen him in.

I would appreciate then a few of you more knowledgeable Cat fans to make up a list of ranking our best 'seconds' players in order of their likely success.

For example -
1. Mitch Duncan
2. Menzel
3. Mitch Brown - etc.

Just want to get a bit better idea of how the punters out there think our list looks really in respect to potential first graders or players who might come thru and be genuine replacements for some of our aging good players and stars.

I'd already had a similar idea and was knocking something up along the lines of the Hockey's Future prospect reviews. I haven't done all the write ups, but this was my rough ranking:

1. Mitch Brown
2. Daniel Menzel
3. Tom Gillies
4. Mitch Duncan
5. Dawson Simpson
6. Steven Motlop
7. Marcus Drum
8. Trent West
9. Simon Hogan
10. Taylor Hunt
11. Nathan Djerrkura
12. Ryan Gamble
13. Adam Varcoe
14. Allen Christensen
15. Nathan Vardy
16. Jeremy Laidler
17. Josh Cowan
18. Tom Allwright
19. Ben Johnson
20. Jack Weston
21. Ranga Ediriwickrama
22. Jesse Stringer

 

[Gaz_Brownlow]

Re: List changes for 2011

Good assesment,

I think its fair to say we can expect maybe 5 of these players to become regular seniors over the next 2-3 years. Anything more would be an absolute bonus.

 

[Belisarius]

Re: List changes for 2011

Thanks Jester - good to see a rating of some of our younger players from a serious Cat fan.

The Jest list -

1. Mitch Brown
2. Daniel Menzel
3. Tom Gillies
4. Mitch Duncan
5. Dawson Simpson
6. Steven Motlop
7. Marcus Drum

If you are basically right - we might yet get 3-5 players from this lot. Even 3 would be ok.

Just interested in your high rating of Dawson - if the Mummy was still at the club would you have rated Dawson so highly ?

And Jester - can I ask what you have seen that makes you rate Dawson quite high on the list ? Or is that you do not rate the others that highly and this explains his number 5 position ?

Thanks again - Bel.

 

[i_need_a_pencil]

Re: List changes for 2011

Vardy was touted as a possible round 1 draft pick wasn't he? - as one of the best ruck options in the draft?

Its his first year but has anyone seen much of him yet, and does he promise much so far?

 

[thejester]

Re: List changes for 2011

Just interested in your high rating of Dawson - if the Mummy was still at the club would you have rated Dawson so highly ?

Yes.

And Jester - can I ask what you have seen that makes you rate Dawson quite high on the list ? Or is that you do not rate the others that highly and this explains his number 5 position ?

Thanks again - Bel.

He's 21, 206cm, and is a pretty decent footballer - has a reasonable skill set, can get it below the knees, take a mark and read the play well. Take a look at his stats from his two games this year - playing against Sandilands and the WCE ruck combo, didn't record many hitouts but averaged 3.5 marks and 3 tackles. I know that sounds small but for a guy his age and against that opposition it's pretty good and shows he's going to bring more to the table than merely being a tap ruckman.

It's the old cliche but ruckman simply take longer to mature - look at Jamar, 2-3 seasons ago Melbourne supporters were despairing about him and now he's on track to win AA selection. I think that combination of height and actual footballing ability is pretty rare and that's why I rated him at #5.

 

[Belisarius]

Re: List changes for 2011

Thanks Jester for the information. It makes me think that we might have a few players that will come thru over time. I just need to know there are actual signs that some of these guys are showing promise.

Thanks again - Bel.

 

[Cats408]

Re: List changes for 2011

IMO we get rid of Djeukeera, Gamble and Laidler and I also question the decison in obtaining Drum what good will he do IMO he is a hack and a pretty crappy Pick 10.

 

[Gogeelong]

Re: List changes for 2011

We should retire some of our senior players at the end of the year. Perhaps Milburn and Corey (if his knee is a problem), who else??

We must be carefull of an ageing list with players out all of the time with injuries. Our average age for our playing list is way higher than other teams.

We may have played a very strong team against Collingwood however one third of them need game time as they are coming back from injury or are playing injured. Time to freshen up the side next year

 

[The rabbi]

Re: List changes for 2011

We should retire some of our senior players at the end of the year. Perhaps Milburn and Corey (if his knee is a problem), who else??

Corey will be fine. It is my guess that as he gets too old for on ball work he will slide into a back pocket.