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Roast Preliminary Final Umpiring Thread

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TennisPlayerAndy said:
It was the umpire out of the play.
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Thanks TPA. That makes more sense.

Which then raises the question why didn't the allegedly "officiating" umpire overule the umpire out of the play?

Wait, I know the answer. They are dead set s******** morons.
 
Jack_the_Ninja said:
There is only one way to fix this ( yes it is an issue ) and that would be to have a video replay steward change the decisions from above..this would slow the game down to NFL stoppage levels and would be more of a problem than the bad decisions themselves. Playing at the G in front of Collingwood supporters and Richmond can be just as bad though...the louder the crowd the more it influences decisions by the umps so the real solution is to get your own fans to become louder.
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There is a simple way which was trialed yesterday in under 20 rugby league Captains review each captain has limited reviews to be called for where video replays are looked at.Im sure if Swallow had have called for one when he was poleaxed it would have been overturned also when Jacobs was ankle tripped same result.Perhaps give each captain 4 for each quarter umpires after they have had some overturned would be more reluctant to make controversial decisions.As the mistakes would be highlighted as it is now now action and cant even be criticised by coaches or captains.
 

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Greater Gattsby said:
View attachment 178053
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Ray Chamberlain is like a parking inspector, no idea, but calls everything to a tee I can see him with his pen and pad looking at his watch 10 seconds then this car gets a $60 dollar fine.
He has no idea of perception of an activity, by a player on the ground, he calls it exactly as its ruled for (AFL greyness to blame there) he sees nothing but that , not the incidental touching, not the accident , he has no idea about football playing at this level and in a final, the others not much better.
They say some politicians are out of touch , well these very athletic little runners that adjudicate at our game are totally out of touch with the game , even if they played in lower grades before, now maybe ex footballers should be recruited and made umpires, ex AFL I mean.

If Ray is, too good at how he looks at the games exactness then retrain him.

Better still bring some sense to rules, don't have these bloke making decisions on a split second accident/incident that is no ones fault! Because if they do it too ofter they should not be in the job, Ray should never umpire a final again, until he has a closer look at how he sees his role and the players role, last night was unfair, umpiring without a doubt changed too many things in that game, and made the result absolute. I think the Eagles may have won anyway , but I don't know, that's the whole stuff up!
 
barney136 said:
There is a simple way which was trialed yesterday in under 20 rugby league Captains review each captain has limited reviews to be called for where video replays are looked at.Im sure if Swallow had have called for one when he was poleaxed it would have been overturned also when Jacobs was ankle tripped same result.Perhaps give each captain 4 for each quarter umpires after they have had some overturned would be more reluctant to make controversial decisions.As the mistakes would be highlighted as it is now now action and cant even be criticised by coaches or captains.
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What about the obvious out of bounds ? and the diving Waite did for a free ? I could go on but the umpiring was bad all round and not just one way.
 
Jack_the_Ninja said:
What about the obvious out of bounds ? and the diving Waite did for a free ? I could go on but the umpiring was bad all round and not just one way.
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Yeah true, poor West Coast were absolutely robbed and taken out of the game at key moments :cry:
 
Jack_the_Ninja said:
What about the obvious out of bounds ? and the diving Waite did for a free ? I could go on but the umpiring was bad all round and not just one way.
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Not a North supporter , and all neutral supporters who watched that I spoke to have no doubt WC were given a dream run . might add as usual. You won and should be happy but mate take your rose coloured glasses off.
 
JoondalupJ said:
Ray Chamberlain is like a parking inspector, no idea, but calls everything to a tee I can see him with his pen and pad looking at his watch 10 seconds then this car gets a $60 dollar fine.
He has no idea of perception of an activity, by a player on the ground, he calls it exactly as its ruled for (AFL greyness to blame there) he sees nothing but that , not the incidental touching, not the accident , he has no idea about football playing at this level and in a final, the others not much better.
They say some politicians are out of touch , well these very athletic little runners that adjudicate at our game are totally out of touch with the game , even if they played in lower grades before, now maybe ex footballers should be recruited and made umpires, ex AFL I mean.

If Ray is, too good at how he looks at the games exactness then retrain him.

Better still bring some sense to rules, don't have these bloke making decisions on a split second accident/incident that is no ones fault! Because if they do it too ofter they should not be in the job, Ray should never umpire a final again, until he has a closer look at how he sees his role and the players role, last night was unfair, umpiring without a doubt changed too many things in that game, and made the result absolute. I think the Eagles may have won anyway , but I don't know, that's the whole stuff up!
Click to expand...

Your post about Ray, Joondalup, reminded me of that disgraceful call by Razor last year, in the Hawks v Adelaide game, I think it was, which robbed Luke Bruest of setting a record for the most goals kicked in a row without missing. Ray blew his whistle to call the end of the quarter a few seconds early, because he "thought he heard the siren". Nothing hinged on it, but that would have been some sort of record.

That sort of decision should have had him out of the game.
 
Might as well get that little kid that was dressed up as an umpire at a game a few months ago and 80's WWF heel referee Dangerous Danny Davis to have a go next week. Maybe throw in one of those X Factor judges as well, isn't Chris Isaak one of those? He's been given a gig singing at the GF I think, just hand him a green polo after his performance. Read somewhere that he hasn't a clue about AFL, perfect fit imo.
 
Forever North said:
Might as well get that little kid that was dressed up as an umpire at a game a few months ago and 80's WWF heel referee Dangerous Danny Davis to have a go next week. Maybe throw in one of those X Factor judges as well, isn't Chris Isaak one of those? He's been given a gig singing at the GF I think, just hand him a green polo after his performance. Read somewhere that he hasn't a clue about AFL, perfect fit imo.
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Lol
 

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Schrodinger said:
Hello everyone,

While I acknowledge that posting on an opposition supporters' post-game umpire venting thread will be as popular as a vegan at a paleo convention, I thought I might make a couple of points which, depending on the person, will either comfort or further enrage.

As someone with more than a passing interest in cognitive biases (I am lucky enough that a book I wrote on this topic allows me to spend far too much time lurking on BF), I have a macabre hobby of reading as many post-game threads (preferably non-West Coast games - see above point on cognitive bias) to read the various anti-umpire comments. Here are some general observations -

  • I can't remember seeing a post-game (hereafter PG) thread without supporters complaining about calls that went against them (they must exist so will guess at least 95%)
  • There is a near-perfect correlation between whether your team lost and how much of the discussion centres on umpiring
  • In close games, these supporters will claim that the decisions "probably cost us the game"
  • In games with margins beyond that which could be claimed to be influenced by umpiring alone, supporters will talk about calls early in the game, or when their team was fighting back as being "momentum killers"
  • In games where a supporter's team loses the free kick count, the supporter points to the count without identifying the information which would make this stat meaningful - a) For each free, was it there or not? b) Once you have confirmed this, what happens when you add in the frees not paid to both sides. Once you have done this, you have "useful" data
  • In games where the losing team's free count was equal to or higher than the winning team's, supporters will talk about "where the frees occurred" or when in the context of the game
  • Teams who lose often give away silly frees out of panic (for example, I haven't looked at any stats however would hazard a guess that Nic Nat has received the most frees for the Eagles due to opposition trying to stop him from jumping) or because they are second to the ball
  • When a supporter's team loses to West Coast, Hawthorn, Collingwood or Richmond, there will be talk of a conspiracy of some kind

And now some general points regarding biases in general -

  • When someone becomes highly emotional, a part of their brain called the amygdala "hijacks" the part of your brain responsible for rational thought and decision making
  • I would therefore expect to see more anti-umpire and conspiracy posts in finals (and further increase with each game closer to the GF)
  • If you even just read the Wikipedia entry on cognitive biases, it makes for fascinating reading as you can see common examples from footy fans
  • Just to give an example - notice how most people think they always seem to choose the slowest moving queue in Coles? This is because a slow queue makes as angry and a fast queue is never noticed. So we only ever remember the slow queues. How many times can you remember thinking "wow, we were really lucky today with umpiring" versus the times you thought the umps were favouring the other team?
  • By the way, there is even a version of survivorship bias or selection bias with the creation of threads like these. If anyone here has had the misfortune of suffering depression and needing to take medication, you may have noticed that all you ever see on internet forums is people talking about how terrible "drug x" was. People whose depression has been successfully treated by this drug are rarely motivated to spend their days on depression forums. Same goes for supporters whose team has won the game or the free kick count.
I will make only one specific comment regarding last night. (Disclosure - I am an Eagles fan so this will be biased, not matter how hard I try - look up "bias blind spot" on the Wiki article). After watching Dockers/Hawks the night before, you may recall one of the commentators calling it a "whistle fest" at one point, with the umps getting trigger happy (that Ballantyne bump off the ball...wow...just wow). I thought the umps may have gotten a spray by their bosses who then may have warned last night's umps not to do the same. This was evident from the get-go last night, with the umps appearing to have decided to let it go more than usual. I saw dozens of frees each way that weren't paid.

What this means is that focusing on frees that weren't paid in isolation is meaningless. An unbiased observer would need to tally everything that was paid, which of these were actually frees or not, and then which ones were not paid. Then we at least have the beginnings of truly useful and interesting data. This cuts both ways mind you. I am more than prepared to accept that fans' complaints are justified, once I see the data presented as per above. And I am also prepared to accept that 43000 rabid Eagles supporters influence umpires' behaviour (they are human). However I have seen just the opposite apply, like the Eagles game against Collingwood earlier this year (for you "free kick count means everything" buffs, have a quick gander at the free count that day).

TLDR version - The venting in this thread may prove warranted, however the reasons posited are riddled with cognitive biases due to being formed in a highly emotional state.
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Jeez, what ****ing rubbish. You just wasted your own time writing that shit and everyone elses time by having to read even some of it. Go stroke ya dick somewhere else ya *******. And Mr. Author, go write a book on how to pull a dick out your own arse.
 
You really have to learn to take the good with the bad in terms of umpiring. In the Elim, Richmond were robbed of a crucial goal with 5 minutes remaining by a missed howler and last week vs Sydney, you had the rub of the umps most of the night. Time to build a bridge.

You dominated the 1st quarter last night, yet led by just 20 points and from there your intensity towards the contest fell right away. After quarter time, WC had 28 scoring shots to 13, you led the inside 50's by 9 at 1/4 time, but lost it 52-44 at the end of the game.

Pretty big turnaround after the 1st quarter there, are we blaming the umps for that?
 
STP18 said:
They do that all time after completely butchering a game. At one stage tonight the scores were basically level yet Eagles had double the amount of free kicks. It doesn't add up that such an even game can be so one-sided from an umpiring point of view. They rectify it late so after the game the stats show something much more balanced, but not before completely dictating the result.
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At that point it was 16 frees to Eagles, 8 frees to North, and its where you get them too!
 
'The rub of the green."

So bad are the weagles home town decisions it now has its own code phase.
Allows players an coaches to talk about the free ride the eagle get from the umps without breaking league rules.
 

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Tigerandy63 said:
You really have to learn to take the good with the bad in terms of umpiring. In the Elim, Richmond were robbed of a crucial goal with 5 minutes remaining by a missed howler and last week vs Sydney, you had the rub of the umps most of the night. Time to build a bridge.

You dominated the 1st quarter last night, yet led by just 20 points and from there your intensity towards the contest fell right away. After quarter time, WC had 28 scoring shots to 13, you led the inside 50's by 9 at 1/4 time, but lost it 52-44 at the end of the game.

Pretty big turnaround after the 1st quarter there, are we blaming the umps for that?
Click to expand...
Really ? Richmond were robbed of a free with 5 minutes to go?
You lucky bastards..wish we only had one incident to fume over.
 
Tigerandy63 said:
You really have to learn to take the good with the bad in terms of umpiring. In the Elim, Richmond were robbed of a crucial goal with 5 minutes remaining by a missed howler and last week vs Sydney, you had the rub of the umps most of the night. Time to build a bridge.

You dominated the 1st quarter last night, yet led by just 20 points and from there your intensity towards the contest fell right away. After quarter time, WC had 28 scoring shots to 13, you led the inside 50's by 9 at 1/4 time, but lost it 52-44 at the end of the game.

Pretty big turnaround after the 1st quarter there, are we blaming the umps for that?
Click to expand...

They find Trent yet?
 
Tigerandy63 said:
You really have to learn to take the good with the bad in terms of umpiring. In the Elim, Richmond were robbed of a crucial goal with 5 minutes remaining by a missed howler and last week vs Sydney, you had the rub of the umps most of the night. Time to build a bridge.

You dominated the 1st quarter last night, yet led by just 20 points and from there your intensity towards the contest fell right away. After quarter time, WC had 28 scoring shots to 13, you led the inside 50's by 9 at 1/4 time, but lost it 52-44 at the end of the game.

Pretty big turnaround after the 1st quarter there, are we blaming the umps for that?
Click to expand...

You're mainly right, but take your own advice re time to build a bridge - your losing effort in the EF is ancient history and the continuing whinges about it from Richmond supporters is really boring.
 
Tigerandy63 said:
You really have to learn to take the good with the bad in terms of umpiring. In the Elim, Richmond were robbed of a crucial goal with 5 minutes remaining by a missed howler and last week vs Sydney, you had the rub of the umps most of the night. Time to build a bridge.
Click to expand...

You forgetting the first quarter where you were gifted all those goals?

Don't need ****ing losers like you coming in here with bullshit like "time to build a bridge." **** off.
 
Tigerandy63 said:
You really have to learn to take the good with the bad in terms of umpiring. In the Elim, Richmond were robbed of a crucial goal with 5 minutes remaining by a missed howler and last week vs Sydney, you had the rub of the umps most of the night. Time to build a bridge.

You dominated the 1st quarter last night, yet led by just 20 points and from there your intensity towards the contest fell right away. After quarter time, WC had 28 scoring shots to 13, you led the inside 50's by 9 at 1/4 time, but lost it 52-44 at the end of the game.

Pretty big turnaround after the 1st quarter there, are we blaming the umps for that?
Click to expand...

Yes Richmond were unlucky not to get a free paid against Cunners. But the goal still had to be kicked and I still think we would have won because we seemed to have the answers, just as we did last year in the equivalent game against *essendon.

But the similarity between the umpiring in the EF and PF ends right there. I suggest that you have a look at the replay and look at all of those decisions that have been highlighted in this thread. I think a proper objective analysis will tell you that the umps were far worse last night. I will go further and say that if we had have been on the end of the same umpiring in the EF, we would have lost by 3 to 4 goals as well and if you had have been on the wrong end of the same umpires as last night, we would have beaten you by around 8 goals or more.
 
When Darling kicked that goal to put them 10 up in the third, it was 19-9. That's a big discrepancy.
Coulda, woulda, shoulda, we'll never know, but I think we ran out of gas anyway and would have been run down.
That said, Shuey, Darling and Jacobs decisions all appeared clearly wrong, and that's 18 points in a 24-point game.
 

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Roast Preliminary Final Umpiring Thread

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