Primus - how is the gloss looking

[tribey]

Re: Primus - is the gloss wearing off already

A Gary Ablett is a superstar.
B Only in 1 out of 4 games so far.

So is Jimmy Bartel. So is Joel Selwood. Lesser extent Joel Corey.

All would be able to consistently rack up 20+ touches in our side and generally acquit themselves well, like GAJ has - and similar to Judd in his early days at Carlton.

40+ possession/2 goal Brownlow feats would be few and far between though.

 

[Schulzenfest]

Re: Primus - is the gloss wearing off already

Danny Meyer was lucky to be promoted this year for sure, but the alternative would have been a draft pick in the high 60's or 70's or more had Krakouer not walked.

Better that than the pick in the 100's we'll probably get for him this year with the rest of the deadwood we'll dump this year now that it's abundantly and inarguably clear that we need a rebuild. Surely more than 6 guys will be goneskies from the senior list this year.

 

[*PAF]

Re: Primus - is the gloss wearing off already

So is Jimmy Bartel. So is Joel Selwood. Lesser extent Joel Corey.

All would be able to consistently rack up 20+ touches in our side and generally acquit themselves well, like GAJ has - and similar to Judd in his early days at Carlton.

40+ possession/2 goal Brownlow feats would be few and far between though.

The point was put Pearce in Geelong's midfield and he will tear many sides a new one. Same goes for Rodan, Hartlett or Boak.

Put Selwood in our midfield with the way we are playing atm and he will not make that much difference plus, eventually, he will come back to the pack.

Our main issue is that if you were to rate our players on a 0 to 100 scale you would come up with a total.
Now if we were a "champion side" the final team value would be the players total value plus some.
In our case, the team value is the players total sum minus plenty.

Why? Well that is what Primus' job is mostly about. Now before anyone has a go at MP for not having fixed the issue already, the reality is that this has been the case for some years and it will take time to fix.

 

[Portmanteau]

Re: Primus - is the gloss wearing off already

Put Selwood in our team now and he would be excellent. If we drafted Selwood and he was in our team now, he would not be excellent.

 

[Forzaport]

Re: Primus - is the gloss wearing off already

More good stuff from the Mattress

Link

Power mantra for road back - hard work

Primus has only one recipe for success, albeit a simple one.

"Hard work is the only thing," he said. "You can get back for a week and do something like a circuit breaker - don't do training or do something fun - but that only covers up the cracks for a week and might get you a result.

"So you've just got to get out on the training track, watch what the best teams are doing and see what we need to do, and keep practising and keep drilling it."

Link

Makes me wonder if there is a suttle reference to Choco's methods of carrying bricks / playing playstation games to refresh the players. Could this have contributed to the weak mindset?

 

[Schulzenfest]

Re: Primus - is the gloss wearing off already

'watch what the best teams are doing and see what we need to do'



Come up with your own ****ing plan for once Mattress.

 

[S.Patrol.G]

Re: Primus - is the gloss wearing off already

'watch what the best teams are doing and see what we need to do'



Come up with your own ****ing plan for once Mattress.

Hang on a sec! If we can show the same level of work ethic and desire as the best teams in the competition I'll be a far happier supporter than I am right now.

Primus, I'd suggest, is referring to work rate and professionalism rather than game plan.

 

[Ford Fairlane]

Re: Primus - is the gloss wearing off already

At least he's not checking what the best teams are doing on his Playstation for ideas ...

 

[Zakk Wylde]

Re: Primus - is the gloss wearing off already

At least he's not checking what the best teams are doing on his Playstation for ideas ...

Hold on I'm working it out... Okay, half of you vibrate that way, two of you fall down. Nelson, you just spin around in a circle.

 

[Schulzenfest]

Re: Primus - is the gloss wearing off already

At least he's not checking what the best teams are doing on his Playstation for ideas ...

I remember thinking during the Port/Gold Coast game that it reminded me a lot more of AFL Live than any real AFL game should.

Hold on I'm working it out... Okay, half of you vibrate that way, two of you fall down. Nelson, you just spin around in a circle.

**** you, I was gonna make that joke

 

[Zakk Wylde]

Re: Primus - is the gloss wearing off already

 

[Resilience]

Re: Primus - is the gloss wearing off already

More good stuff from the Mattress



Makes me wonder if there is a suttle reference to Choco's methods of carrying bricks / playing playstation games to refresh the players. Could this have contributed to the weak mindset?

Our players and leaders have stage fright at present.. Hard work..yep they may be fitter, they may be able to tackle but anxiety kills performance. What are they doing mentally to address this situation..
Quote MP... we have to delve into the psych of our players... Who decided this is done by hard physical work .. Anxiety makes people tired before they begin..nervous energy wastes effort on a field...what are they doing about this ??
You all want to flog people when great leaders know when to take the foot off and build some bloody confidence... Hard work and mental preparation...be accountable in all areas.

 

[oporto]

Re: Primus - is the gloss wearing off already

Agree Resilience. Our team problem is mental not physical.

 

[b0ydman]

Re: Primus - is the gloss wearing off already

 

[Forzaport]

Re: Primus - is the gloss wearing off already

Our players and leaders have stage fright at present.. Hard work..yep they may be fitter, they may be able to tackle but anxiety kills performance. What are they doing mentally to address this situation..
Quote MP... we have to delve into the psych of our players... Who decided this is done by hard physical work .. Anxiety makes people tired before they begin..nervous energy wastes effort on a field...what are they doing about this ??
You all want to flog people when great leaders know when to take the foot off and build some bloody confidence... Hard work and mental preparation...be accountable in all areas.

Surely hard work and training helps to focus the mind and build confidence? Confidence helps tackle anxiety, less anxiety leads to better on-field performance and hopefully an upward trend of better results for the club.

I'm not sure how much of what MP is saying is specific to pure hard physical work. He could be talking about hard work in all areas of football (e.g. recovery or more skills sessions) and not just hard training. Just my take on it.

 

[PowerKat]

Re: Primus - is the gloss wearing off already

Our players and leaders have stage fright at present.. Hard work..yep they may be fitter, they may be able to tackle but anxiety kills performance. What are they doing mentally to address this situation..
Quote MP... we have to delve into the psych of our players... Who decided this is done by hard physical work .. Anxiety makes people tired before they begin..nervous energy wastes effort on a field...what are they doing about this ??
You all want to flog people when great leaders know when to take the foot off and build some bloody confidence... Hard work and mental preparation...be accountable in all areas.

Agree Resilience. Our team problem is mental not physical.

did you read the article

 

[sog35]

Re: Primus - is the gloss wearing off already

'watch what the best teams are doing and see what we need to do'



Come up with your own ****ing plan for once Mattress.

This has been concerning me for some time. As long as it's not game plan, but more showing how hard you have to work.

We're going to be successful in 3-5 years, we need to be thinking ahead of the game. What tweaks and tricks are fashionable and successful now may not be when we plan to rise again. This is all easier said than done with rules changing every second week, but some of these murmurings do concern. Get ahead of the curve Matty!

 

[Enviable Tradition]

Re: Primus - is the gloss wearing off already

More good stuff from the Mattress



Makes me wonder if there is a suttle reference to Choco's methods of carrying bricks / playing playstation games to refresh the players. Could this have contributed to the weak mindset?

I agree. I think under the old regime the players got lazy. They knew that they might get flogged for their poor effort or they might get rewarded with a light week. There really wasn't a consistent action and consequence.

I think this groups is a bit like a spoilt 2 year old and the moment and needs the consistency until they can show they have grown up a bit.

 

[Fazualdo]

Re: Primus - is the gloss wearing off already

Yeah thats pretty much it b2m.

I would invite people to remember how long the Cahill to Choco conversion took. In 1999 we had an indifferent year still playing SANFL style football, with not a lot of Choco influence. In 2000 we bombed out as Choco style was enforced. In 2001, which I think was the most enjoyable year of Power football I've seem, we had just enough of Choco's gameplan, combined with Francis & Dew long kicks and Tredrea's speccy marks.

2002 was the first year that the full team was playing Choco style football, evidence as the last of Dewy's finesse was kicked out of him and he was relegated to kicks of no more than 40m.

How can we convince ourselves that changing back to a long kicking, contested football team, with a squad consisting almost entirely of player types that are ill-suited to such a style, will take any less time?

There will be at least one game this year that we will genuinely see Primus-style eventuate...but not two games in.

If Primus had his team at least trying like Cahill did, there would be a lot less angst on this board. The fact of the matter is our players appear not to care or try. It is Primus's job as senior coach to get the players up and if the players aren't responding move them on.

Sure it wasn't all harmonious under Jack, (for example Tredrea saying he was going to leave if he was still coach what does that say about him as a person really? I know he is a legend of our club, but he was ready to pack his bags because he couldn't cement his place in the team) but you still had that sense of Port Adelaide spirit when we played. We had the odd 70 point blow out, but more often than not were competetive and we had some good comebacks.

We had players like Lyle and Brown and Bruer who whilst not stars where able to get up and beat their opponents more often than not.

If you were to compare our list now to our 1997 list I would take the 1997 list every day of the week and they where 75% SANFL players.

That's why I believe we need a complete re-birth of our list. Keep a few core players, but quickly turf those who aren't performing or up to it.

Get some hard nosed big bodied 20 or 21 year olds into the club who will play like their lives depend on it and complement it with the best youth we can get.

Every midfielder in their low 20's who dominates the state competitions this year should be drafted and given a chance IMOO.

Our cattle just ain't up to it, time to find some who are!!

 

[Resilience]

Re: Primus - is the gloss wearing off already

did you read the article

Yes and then I watched the interviews with the response they had devised. My points stand. Have you heard anything about developing the mental aspects of the game?
Confidence is fragile... wind up the spring too tight and it breaks.. Look how we are playing and see who has any swagger left.. IT IS KILLING US.

 

[*PAF]

Re: Primus - is the gloss wearing off already

So is Jimmy Bartel. So is Joel Selwood. Lesser extent Joel Corey.

All would be able to consistently rack up 20+ touches in our side and generally acquit themselves well, like GAJ has - and similar to Judd in his early days at Carlton.

40+ possession/2 goal Brownlow feats would be few and far between though.

Yeah, but the point was more along the lines of Kerr appearing to be a better player with Judd and Cousins around him than when he was on his own and taking the best tagger rather than the third best.
Pearce would be much harder to shut down and thus appear to be a much better player with the third string tagger on him just like Kerr did.

Put Selwood in our team now and he would be excellent. If we drafted Selwood and he was in our team now, he would not be excellent.

With the other bit, Bresh speaketh truth again. Fair chance Selwood would be a slightly different player now if he had been trained to perform a different role. Who knows he may have been the best HBF Port has ever had.

 

[Portology]

Re: Primus - is the gloss wearing off already

If Primus had his team at least trying like Cahill did, there would be a lot less angst on this board. The fact of the matter is our players appear not to care or try. It is Primus's job as senior coach to get the players up and if the players aren't responding move them on.

Sure it wasn't all harmonious under Jack, (for example Tredrea saying he was going to leave if he was still coach what does that say about him as a person really? I know he is a legend of our club, but he was ready to pack his bags because he couldn't cement his place in the team) but you still had that sense of Port Adelaide spirit when we played. We had the odd 70 point blow out, but more often than not were competetive and we had some good comebacks.

We had players like Lyle and Brown and Bruer who whilst not stars where able to get up and beat their opponents more often than not.

If you were to compare our list now to our 1997 list I would take the 1997 list every day of the week and they where 75% SANFL players.

That's why I believe we need a complete re-birth of our list. Keep a few core players, but quickly turf those who aren't performing or up to it.

Get some hard nosed big bodied 20 or 21 year olds into the club who will play like their lives depend on it and complement it with the best youth we can get.

Every midfielder in their low 20's who dominates the state competitions this year should be drafted and given a chance IMOO.

Our cattle just ain't up to it, time to find some who are!!

The apparent lack of "run" is frustrating, partly because we can't see a clue of what they are actually supposed to be doing out there.

As for 1997 vs 2010 I might agree with you on that - if the two lists were playing to 1997 SANFL or AFL rules and a 1997 SANFL or AFL game plan.

Decent and hard working as they were, Lyle Brown & Bruer were dead ends in terms of getting to win a flag. Their reason for being (apart from being all we could get) was to help some more talented kids learn for a few years with some hardened support around them and for that we are grateful.

Would your answer change if they were playing to 2010 AFL rules and 2010 AFL game plans ?? Make no mistake I don't disagree with your anger at what we see out there now. I agree we will get the list clean out. I think the likes of Logan & Thomas probably fit the same category* as those you name from misty memories of 1997. We won 10 games, yet it was overachievement to outside observers ! Would call it a total FAIL year now. Hard to compare.

* Gutsy players, not the smartest out there or the cleanest disposal.

 

[Fazualdo]

Re: Primus - is the gloss wearing off already

The apparent lack of "run" is frustrating, partly because we can't see a clue of what they are actually supposed to be doing out there.

As for 1997 vs 2010 I might agree with you on that - if the two lists were playing to 1997 SANFL or AFL rules and a 1997 SANFL or AFL game plan.

Decent and hard working as they were, Lyle Brown & Bruer were dead ends in terms of getting to win a flag. Their reason for being (apart from being all we could get) was to help some more talented kids learn for a few years with some hardened support around them and for that we are grateful.

Would your answer change if they were playing to 2010 AFL rules and 2010 AFL game plans ?? Make no mistake I don't disagree with your anger at what we see out there now. I agree we will get the list clean out. I think the likes of Logan & Thomas probably fit the same category* as those you name from misty memories of 1997. We won 10 games, yet it was overachievement to outside observers ! Would call it a total FAIL year now. Hard to compare.

* Gutsy players, not the smartest out there or the cleanest disposal.

This paragragh probably somes up what I would like to see right now, get those kind of players while we are in rebuild so the younger skillfull players actually have hard bodies to support them on the ground, not saying we would win a premiership with them, but you would, IMOO see greater improvement from the likes of Hartlett and Boak. Then you can look at recruiting for a premiership ala Hardwick, Monty, Wake's & co.

On your last paragraph, I would happily of taken 10 wins at the beginning of the season and there is always the chance that we will have that moment where we get the right mix and could still finish off the season better with 10. I wouldn't regard it as a failure as long as it wasn't a year where we played all of our past stars in the hope they can get them over the line to the finals. If it was a year where we basically played those past stars on merit and not in the hope they can come good again. If we focused completely on developing our new game plan and approach and perhaps even tried to change things mid match (one of the most frustrating thing in the Choco era) then I would be happy. I think Logan & Thomas go close to the hard nosed midfielders like Lyle & Co. I would argue though that even though not the most brilliantly skilled players, they where much better with their disposal and footy smarts than them.

My memories of 97 and in general are very, very hazy.

Edit - I would only take the 97 list over now if there was 100% guarantee that Stephen Daniels & Ian Downsborough where left off. I'd take Donald Dickie though, prior to that haircut I thought he was good value.

 

[Ford Fairlane]

Re: Primus - is the gloss wearing off already

Credit where it's due. Last week Primus went into the AA studio to be interviewed by Cornes and Rowe. He then offered to stay for the rest of the show to take calls from Port supporters. They weren't prepared to give him the rest of the show entirely but he stayed on another 30 minutes answering calls.

Here's the AA audio.

 

[RussellEbertHandball]

Re: Primus - is the gloss wearing off already

Yeah I heard most of that the other day, but forgot to make a post about it. It is the most impressive he has sounded in an interview since his presser where he was given the job.

Took it on the chin and dished out some straight words and the ummhs and arrrghs were almost completely eliminated.